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Political Roundtable - Part VI

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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1161 » by nate33 » Mon Oct 7, 2013 3:28 pm

Even those who don't qualify for the tax subsidies could see their rates drop because Obamacare doesn't allow insurers to charge people more if they have pre-existing conditions such as diabetes and cancer, he said.

People like Marilynn Gray-Raine.

The 64-year-old Danville artist, who survived breast cancer, has purchased health insurance for herself for decades. She watched her Anthem Blue Cross monthly premiums rise from $317 in 2005 to $1,298 in 2013. But she found out last week from the Covered California site that her payments will drop to about $795 a month.

But people with no pre-existing conditions like Vinson, a 60-year-old retired teacher, and Waschura, a 52-year-old self-employed engineer, are making up the difference.

"I was laughing at Boehner -- until the mail came today," Waschura said, referring to House Speaker John Boehner, who is leading the Republican charge to defund Obamacare.

"I really don't like the Republican tactics, but at least now I can understand why they are so pissed about this. When you take $10,000 out of my family's pocket each year, that's otherwise disposable income or retirement savings that will not be going into our local economy."

Both Vinson and Waschura have adjusted gross incomes greater than four times the federal poverty level -- the cutoff for a tax credit. And while both said they anticipated their rates would go up, they didn't realize they would rise so much.

"Of course, I want people to have health care," Vinson said. "I just didn't realize I would be the one who was going to pay for it personally."

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There is no free lunch. Insuring 40 million new people comes at a price. The upper middle class are going to bear the brunt of that price.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1162 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Oct 7, 2013 4:10 pm

Wait, so are you saying Obamacare will be costly for the government, or costly for the country, or costly for some subsample of people who already buy individual insurance and don't have pre-existing conditions?

I'm willing to concede that last one to you.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1163 » by nate33 » Mon Oct 7, 2013 4:20 pm

It'll be costly for a very large subsample of people who don't have pre-existing conditions. Healthy, responsible people who take care of themselves will be punished.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1164 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Oct 7, 2013 4:56 pm

I've been taught all my life to value service to the weak and powerless.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1165 » by Nivek » Mon Oct 7, 2013 5:02 pm

Zonk -- That's a reasonable, common-sense solution to this mess. Which means it cannot be permitted under any circumstance.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1166 » by tontoz » Mon Oct 7, 2013 5:38 pm

nate33 wrote:We can't even sell our debt to China anymore. The Fed is buying up our debt. That is, the Fed is printing green pieces of paper and using it to buy our debt. Prior to 2008, the Fed would buy about $30B of new debt a year in Treasuries and/or MBS. From 2009 onward, they have been buying $500B a year. Last year, they bought 61% of all federal debt issued!




I have been wondering how long they can keep kicking the can down the road. I am definitely afraid to buy stocks right now because the rug could get pulled out at any time.

What happens when the Fed stops buying our debt? What happens when interest rates arent being held down?
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1167 » by dobrojim » Mon Oct 7, 2013 5:41 pm

Conservative Andrew Sullivan

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/07/there-is-no-there-there/

Mr Tripcony is doing us a favor. He is telling us the truth. This crisis has almost nothing to do with actual policy – as you can see from a base Republican’s rational support for a single-payer healthcare system and willingness to get Obamacare insurance. There is nothing to the current Republican strategy but blind, irrational hatred for a re-elected president: “I don’t like him, and I don’t feel comfortable with anything he’s got to do with.” Somehow, this “feeling” must be granted some “relief”, or they will bring down the world economy. But any relief granted on these terms would simply pave the way for more economic terrorism and blackmail in the future, which would mean an end to our system of government.

The GOP have driven themselves into a tight, airless corner of ideological purity and self-destruction. The trouble is: their own self-destruction means ours as well. And the world’s.


Sullivan may have succumbed to a bit of hyperbole at his conclusion but his overall
argument is spot on.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1168 » by Ruzious » Mon Oct 7, 2013 5:50 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-07/how-to-solve-the-debt-ceiling-crisis-forever

Works for me.

Thing is - if they reinstate the Gebhart rule, the House Republicans will likely try to repeal it again next year - or at least threaten to and demand something more in return for not repealing it.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1169 » by W. Unseld » Mon Oct 7, 2013 7:44 pm

Andrew Sullivan isn't conservative though he may have been at one point. He's kind of a reverse Kraughthammer.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1170 » by Wizardspride » Mon Oct 7, 2013 7:46 pm

W. Unseld wrote:Andrew Sullivan isn't conservative though he may have been at one point. He's kind of a reverse Kraughthammer.

Sullivan is indeed a conservative.

He's just a conservative who feels that the party has gone insane.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1171 » by hands11 » Tue Oct 8, 2013 12:01 am

For our buddy who cries about corporate taxes being to high

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/busin ... -rate.html

“Some U.S. multinational corporations like to complain about the U.S. 35 percent statutory tax rate, but what they don’t like to admit is that hardly any of them pay anything close to it,” Mr. Levin said in a statement. “The big gap between the U.S. statutory tax rate and what large, profitable U.S. corporations actually pay is due in large part to the unjustified loopholes and gimmicks that riddle our tax code.”

At the same time, big companies are shouldering a smaller part of the overall tax burden than in the past. As a percentage of federal tax revenue, corporate taxes have fallen to 9 percent from more than 30 percent in the 1950s.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1172 » by hands11 » Tue Oct 8, 2013 12:11 am

http://radio.foxnews.com/2013/10/06/gov ... koch-bros/


The plan to hold funding of the government hostage was plan months in the making, planned by former Reagan Attorney General Ed Meese and the billionaire Koch Brothers, the New York Times reports.

Out of that session, held one morning in a location the members insist on keeping secret, came a little-noticed “blueprint to defunding Obamacare,” signed by Mr. Meese and leaders of more than three dozen conservative groups.

It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government.

So, when you are told by Republicans that the shutdown is he fault of President Obama and Democrats, you can now say with certainty that this is untrue.

A defunding “tool kit” created in early September included talking points for the question, “What happens when you shut down the government and you are blamed for it?” The suggested answer was the one House Republicans give today: “We are simply calling to fund the entire government except for the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare.”

The billionaire Koch brothers, Charles and David, have been deeply involved with financing the overall effort. A group linked to the Kochs, Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce, disbursed more than $200 million last year to nonprofit organizations involved in the fight. Included was $5 million to Generation Opportunity, which created a buzz last month with an Internet advertisement showing a menacing Uncle Sam figure popping up between a woman’s legs during a gynecological exam.

--

Like I've been saying. These people are evil and knowing lying. over and over and over. Its really sick what they do to twist peoples mind and blanket the airways with the talking point propaganda. Its treasonous.

The country is at war with the Koch brothers and the TPs are their chest pieces. Leadership knows what it is doing. Most the supporters don't get it. They really think they are fighting for the good of the country. They do not understand how they are being used. Its sick and sad.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1173 » by Spence » Tue Oct 8, 2013 12:55 am

Why Republicans Don't Compromise:
YouGov, polling for The Economist, asked Americans whether they want a member of Congress who "compromises to get things done" or one who "sticks to their principles no matter what." Democrats and independents, by wide margins, chose compromise. But a slim majority of Republicans preferred standing on principle.

Republicans, it seems, are different: They value compromise far less and principle far more than other Americans. In refusing to give ground, then, Republican politicians are reflecting their base's priorities.

This result helps explain more than just GOP intransigence, it seems to me. It also helps explain the parties' mutual incomprehension. Since Democrats value compromise by such an overwhelming margin, they assume their opponents do too. But Republicans, it turns out, are wired a bit differently.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1174 » by montestewart » Tue Oct 8, 2013 1:13 am

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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1175 » by hands11 » Tue Oct 8, 2013 1:27 am

Spence wrote:Why Republicans Don't Compromise:
YouGov, polling for The Economist, asked Americans whether they want a member of Congress who "compromises to get things done" or one who "sticks to their principles no matter what." Democrats and independents, by wide margins, chose compromise. But a slim majority of Republicans preferred standing on principle.

Republicans, it seems, are different: They value compromise far less and principle far more than other Americans. In refusing to give ground, then, Republican politicians are reflecting their base's priorities.

This result helps explain more than just GOP intransigence, it seems to me. It also helps explain the parties' mutual incomprehension. Since Democrats value compromise by such an overwhelming margin, they assume their opponents do too. But Republicans, it turns out, are wired a bit differently.


If that is true, why don't they respect Obama for standing firm on his principles ? Specially when he has the facts of the situation on his side. A majority of the house would pass a clean CR. There is no principle to stand on. Actually, I have taken the position that some will respect him more if he does. I think they see him as weak because he folded last time. Its like how you had to kick the bullies ass when younger, then you gained there respect. Obama needs to whop them in a cage match before they will give him the respect to not mess with him like this again.

The real problem is they were promised something that was only possible unless they won the presidency. And when it didn't, those people that ran on doing that lied to them because they didn't explain that promise wasn't possible right now. They would need to wait, run on the issue again and win the next presidency or at least the Senate. Not sure it was explained to them like that.

Then the Koch brother back a shut down hostage taking strategy. Again, thinking the adults would step in the save them and give up something in the process.

Right now, its just about principle, its just about them not losing and seeing what they can get away with.

In a hostage situation, this is the point the commander give the call to the sniper to take the hostage takers or the SWAT team is called in.

At what point could they arrest the TP in the house and Cruz for treason.

See, this is why I started calling these guys out so hard so long ago. I know they were bat **** crazy puppets of the Koch Brothers. Sucks being right sometimes.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1176 » by Induveca » Tue Oct 8, 2013 10:19 am

More about the repatriation of overseas corporate profits.

For those of you confused, I'm not talking about corporate tax in general.

I'm speaking to corporate profits made outside the US. Nearly 2 trillion sit outside, legally, in foreign banks collecting interest...with zero US tax owed.

I know many mid-size businesses who are happy to leave it off shore vs face a 35% tax. Some larger corporations with offshore presences likely prefer to leave it overseas, but it's not a majority. Apple is an interesting scenario, they'd likely pay a stock dividend and fund more local assembly.

And for those who scream most companies pay nowhere near 35% tax...good luck finding a loophole around repatriation. It's a pretty cut and dry separation from domestic reporting. Not the same issue.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1177 » by Zonkerbl » Tue Oct 8, 2013 11:13 am

That's the thing, hands. Why can't the pres just dissolve Congress, call for reelections, and in the meantime pass an emergency budget? Where is our "break glass in case of emergency"?
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1178 » by noworriesinmd » Tue Oct 8, 2013 11:16 am

When people talk about low corporate taxes, they are talking about LARGE businesses.
The majority of businesses in the US are small businesses.

http://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/ ... t_2012.pdf

These discussions about corp taxes are directed at the business minority.

Jobs are not created by big business, but small business.

We are talking about McDonalds and not Jenny's chicken shack.
Walmart and not Juan's things and stuff

Ask a S Corp or LLC sole prop or partnership if they get these massive tax breaks that everyone talks about.
Drive down most streets and ask the tax rate of business.

Why are we debating the fringes vs reality. As some would say what about the 99% [of businesses]
A lot of profits and revenue are derived from LARGE companies, however most small businesses are screwed by the tax system.

I own a small business with a partner, and taxes are kicking my a$$. Most people who get in trouble with the IRS are small business owners....why because when you are small...tax policy is NOT YOUR FRIEND.

I think we need to distinguish between the two.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1179 » by Ruzious » Tue Oct 8, 2013 11:20 am

Induveca wrote:More about the repatriation of overseas corporate profits.

For those of you confused, I'm not talking about corporate tax in general.

I'm speaking to corporate profits made outside the US. Nearly 2 trillion sit outside, legally, in foreign banks collecting interest...with zero US tax owed.

I know many mid-size businesses who are happy to leave it off shore vs face a 35% tax. Some larger corporations with offshore presences likely prefer to leave it overseas, but it's not a majority. Apple is an interesting scenario, they'd likely pay a stock dividend and fund more local assembly.

And for those who scream most companies pay nowhere near 35% tax...good luck finding a loophole around repatriation. It's a pretty cut and dry separation from domestic reporting. Not the same issue.

Sounds like the answer is to tax their investment income no matter where they keep their money.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VI 

Post#1180 » by Induveca » Tue Oct 8, 2013 11:28 am

Ruzious wrote:
Induveca wrote:More about the repatriation of overseas corporate profits.

For those of you confused, I'm not talking about corporate tax in general.

I'm speaking to corporate profits made outside the US. Nearly 2 trillion sit outside, legally, in foreign banks collecting interest...with zero US tax owed.

I know many mid-size businesses who are happy to leave it off shore vs face a 35% tax. Some larger corporations with offshore presences likely prefer to leave it overseas, but it's not a majority. Apple is an interesting scenario, they'd likely pay a stock dividend and fund more local assembly.

And for those who scream most companies pay nowhere near 35% tax...good luck finding a loophole around repatriation. It's a pretty cut and dry separation from domestic reporting. Not the same issue.

Sounds like the answer is to tax their investment income no matter where they keep their money.


Many arguments against this, double taxation etc....at that point companies would just leave for tax haven countries en masse. Less international investment/exposure to American companies, less jobs domestically...

Also can't tax unrealized investment which is what they do with overseas profit.

Poor idea....but one with good intentions. I'd prefer a dividend I could reinvest in jobs or stock vs the government coming up with another entitlement program which is robbed blind.....

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