Bradley Beal

[deneem4]

I want to see beal play some pg...it looks like he been learning from wall in terms of driving and handles, he's young and I think he can step up his passing...if beal can play pg with wall on the bench we can have a dangerous lineup with rice webster ariza harrington...jus because we have wall doesnt mean we should limit beal skill set....

Also I did not know beal signed a nike contract his rookie year

[TGW]

No Dat, the argument is Beal plus cap better than Harden. I love Harden. But, Beal plus cap is better.

You have no idea what's going to be done with capspace, and I'd be willing to bet that Harden > Beal + whoever is signed with caproom.

Maybe if we had a competent GM who actually could make good use of the capspace, then I'd have a different opinion, but as of now Harden is clearly better than Beal and a mystery player.

[barelyawake]

No Dat, the argument is Beal plus cap better than Harden. I love Harden. But, Beal plus cap is better.

You have no idea what's going to be done with capspace, and I'd be willing to bet that Harden > Beal + whoever is signed with caproom.

Maybe if we had a competent GM who actually could make good use of the capspace, then I'd have a different opinion, but as of now Harden is clearly better than Beal and a mystery player.

Again, not the argument. The argument is not whether the outcome will be better. The argument is whether the decision to have Beal plus cap better or not. And it is. I'm not attempting to argue they will do the right thing with the cap, because I have no idea if they will. But, the decision to keep Beal and the decisions to allow us to have cap were IMO the right ones. We need a star big -- to go with Beal and Wall.

[tontoz]

No Dat, the argument is Beal plus cap better than Harden. I love Harden. But, Beal plus cap is better.

You have no idea what's going to be done with capspace, and I'd be willing to bet that Harden > Beal + whoever is signed with caproom.

Maybe if we had a competent GM who actually could make good use of the capspace, then I'd have a different opinion, but as of now Harden is clearly better than Beal and a mystery player.

Again, not the argument. The argument is not whether the outcome will be better. The argument is whether the decision to have Beal plus cap better or not. And it is. I'm not attempting to argue they will do the right thing with the cap, because I have no idea if they will. But, the decision to keep Beal and the decisions to allow us to have cap were IMO the right ones. We need a star big -- to go with Beal and Wall.

You are stating an assumption as a fact. Just because you believe it doesn't make it a fact.

In time it is possible that Beal becomes nearly as good as Harden but he has a long way to go. And we would have had capspace even if we did trade for Harden, assuming we hadn't made the nonsensical Okariza trade.

Making the Okariza deal killed any chance to trade for Harden. I don't think it would have even been possible to trade for Harden AND make the Okariza deal. If i remember right we would have had over $10 million in capspace if we traded for Harden.

So it isn't a question of Beal + capspace vs Harden. the issue is Beal vs Harden.

[montestewart]

No Dat, the argument is Beal plus cap better than Harden. I love Harden. But, Beal plus cap is better.

You have no idea what's going to be done with capspace, and I'd be willing to bet that Harden > Beal + whoever is signed with caproom.

Maybe if we had a competent GM who actually could make good use of the capspace, then I'd have a different opinion, but as of now Harden is clearly better than Beal and a mystery player.

Again, not the argument. The argument is not whether the outcome will be better. The argument is whether the decision to have Beal plus cap better or not. And it is. I'm not attempting to argue they will do the right thing with the cap, because I have no idea if they will. But, the decision to keep Beal and the decisions to allow us to have cap were IMO the right ones. We need a star big -- to go with Beal and Wall.

I'm thinking had they not gone the Nene/Okariza route, they would have had enough cap space to add a star big to Wall and Harden, and those two might have attracted a star.

Beal looks pretty good already, and maybe, maybe he'll eventually be good enough that passing on Harden doesn't seem a bad move in hindsight, but I'll never believe EG saw it that way. They probably passed on Harden because they blew their cap space on expensive and decent-but-not-spectacular veterans. When the opportunity came to do something big with their cap space, they no longer had it. I have an idea that they won't do the right thing with their cap space, but they'll sure have a lot of it. Hope I'm wrong.

[barelyawake]

You have no idea what's going to be done with capspace, and I'd be willing to bet that Harden > Beal + whoever is signed with caproom.

Maybe if we had a competent GM who actually could make good use of the capspace, then I'd have a different opinion, but as of now Harden is clearly better than Beal and a mystery player.

Again, not the argument. The argument is not whether the outcome will be better. The argument is whether the decision to have Beal plus cap better or not. And it is. I'm not attempting to argue they will do the right thing with the cap, because I have no idea if they will. But, the decision to keep Beal and the decisions to allow us to have cap were IMO the right ones. We need a star big -- to go with Beal and Wall.

You are stating an assumption as a fact. Just because you believe it doesn't make it a fact.

In time it is possible that Beal becomes nearly as good as Harden but he has a long way to go. And we would have had capspace even if we did trade for Harden, assuming we hadn't made the nonsensical Okariza trade.

Making the Okariza deal killed any chance to trade for Harden. I don't think it would have even been possible to trade for Harden AND make the Okariza deal. If i remember right we would have had over $10 million in capspace if we traded for Harden.

So it isn't a question of Beal + capspace vs Harden. the issue is Beal vs Harden.

The nonsensical Okariza trade is going to get us the playoffs and allow us to have expiring contracts. Okafor was also the leader who helped our franchise talent to develop into a leader (which is well-documented). And Harden is paid 40 plus million for the next three years while Beal is only paid fifteen or so. Unsure how you can say that isn't a factor in us acquiring a more talented big. I'd much rather have Beal and Wall than have almost thirty million tied up in smaller players before we reach the post season and before we attract a big. Beal and Wall are going to have a relationship like Francis/Mobley which is rare in NBA history.

PS - The Harden trade talk has been dispelled as fiction. But regardless, I'd rather be where we are. Relax and enjoy the ride.

[montestewart]

PS - The Harden trade talk has been dispelled as fiction. But regardless, I'd rather be where we are. Relax and enjoy the ride.

I just did a search and found countless sources saying the opposite, and not one source dispelling it. In fact, Leonsis' own response to the rumor, though filled with lots of Ted Speak, never actually denied it as far as I can see.
http://tedstake.monumentalnetwork.com/2 ... /index.jsp

[TGW]

Dude, stop with the absolutes. Just because you say it doesn't make it so.

The Okariza trade has been a complete bust so far. Okafor is out with a herniated disk, and there's no timetable for his return. There have been rumors of potential retirement. Ariza is a mediocre player at this point in his career. How you can claim that trade as successful is beyond silly to me.

Anyway, I'd rather have Harden and caproom than Beal, Ariza, and Okafor. To me that's a no-brainer.

[Ruzious]

If they made the Harden trade and didn't make the Okariza trade, they still would have had room for either Anderson or Ilyasova. That would have been a better outcome, imo.

[barelyawake]

PS - The Harden trade talk has been dispelled as fiction. But regardless, I'd rather be where we are. Relax and enjoy the ride.

I just did a search and found countless sources saying the opposite, and not one source dispelling it. In fact, Leonsis' own response to the rumor, though filled with lots of Ted Speak, never actually denied it as far as I can see.
http://tedstake.monumentalnetwork.com/2 ... /index.jsp

Rico, I believe, was the one who posted about how the trade was not seriously discussed.

As far as TGW, believe what you will. This topic has been thoroughly debated. I'd rather have Okafor and Ariza expiring and Beal. I believe Okafor was instrumental in building our culture to turn around a losing franchise, and our star player credits him for doing so. As I said, what they do with the cap, we shall see. I'm worried.

[Rafael122]

I'd still rather keep Beal and let him develop into becoming our own James Harden.

[payitforward]

...The nonsensical Okariza trade is going to get us the playoffs ]

Wasn't that supposed to happen last year not this year?

,,,Okafor was also the leader who helped our franchise talent to develop into a leader (which is well-documented).

So... without Okafor being here, Wall would have been a worse player. And you think that's a statement that's proveable in any sense?

Beal and Wall are going to...

to... whatever. How in Hell do you know what they're going to do?

I'd rather be where we are. Relax and enjoy the ride.

We won 29 games last year. It looks like we'll have paid Okafor $28m to have played 2000 minutes in that 29-win season. We don't have a single good young big on the squad. So oh yeah... enjoy the ride!

[payitforward]

First point is that the question is was the Okariza trade a good idea *at the time?* Bradley Beal was not a factor in that.

2d point is that the question is would trading the #3 pick in 2012 for Harden have been a good idea *at the time?* We didn't know we'd get Bradley Beal. E.g. the Bobcats might have taken him. And we didn't know how good he'd be (in fact, we still don't -- despite Barelyawake's crystal ball). We did know how good Harden was.

Still, the really stupid set of moves was the year before when we made three historically bad draft picks that we *certainly* could have avoided. Yet, had we picked say Leonard, Faried and Chandler Parsons we'd certainly not have gotten Beal. So we got a pay back for having a horrible GM, though not a full pay back.

Yet (one more time) had we fallen a few spots in the 2012 draft because of having drafted 3 really really good players in 2011 (instead of the 3 duds we did pick), we might have wound up with Andre Drummond. In that case, with Leonard, Faried, Parsons, Drummond, Wall and whoever we got w/ a mid-round 1 pick this year and 2 round 2 picks in 2012 -- we'd be contending for a title in 2-3 years.

Does that make a difference? I don't know, I don't remember what I started this post to write about. Do you?

[barelyawake]

Pay it, Wall was injured. Had he not been injured, we would have made the playoffs. You know that. Stop arguing strawmen. And yes, Wall credits Okafor for helping him develop into the leader that he is. He does. He doesn't mention if your bitching helped. I'm certain it did in some regard. But, in terms of learning how to play through adversity, Okafor was more helpful than your bitching. At least, according to Wall.

In terms of this, "How do you know?" business. Obviously, I am posting my opinion based on what we have seen thus far. Both hang out all the time. Both push each other. Both challenge each other. And the longer they are the court, the more they recognize where each other is going to be a step before they get there. Since that shows already, I believe that will continue to develop. There is no reason not to believe that.

[stevemcqueen1]

If they made the Harden trade and didn't make the Okariza trade, they still would have had room for either Anderson or Ilyasova. That would have been a better outcome, imo.

Where does Porter factor into that? If we had Harden to stabilize the roster when Wall was out, doubt we get Porter.

I think Beal is going to be nearly as good as Harden. Having Porter as a third piece, plus the money left over from getting Beal and Porter on rookie deals is a better long term spot to be in IMO. If we got Harden, I think you end up with Wall & Harden as your foundation and then that's it. Your filling in the rest with Ilyasovas and Andersons and that's the best you can do. That's a good team, but I don't think it's a contender without Wall becoming a legit top 5 player, in which case, almost any construction could produce a contender.

Because of the way our contracts are staggered, I think we'll be able to make a legit run at Kevin Love if he opts out. Then the next two summers we can use cap exceptions to keep Beal and Porter at whatever dollar amount we want. Wall, Beal, Porter, Love is an incredible core IMO. Wall needs to be in Love's ear when they work out over the summers, telling him how great DC is. The team should reach out to Stan Love and try and get him to recruit Kevin. That group is a legitimate contender IMO.

[Ruzious]

If they made the Harden trade and didn't make the Okariza trade, they still would have had room for either Anderson or Ilyasova. That would have been a better outcome, imo.

Where does Porter factor into that? If we had Harden to stabilize the roster when Wall was out, doubt we get Porter.

I think Beal is going to be nearly as good as Harden. Having Porter as a third piece, plus the money left over from getting Beal and Porter on rookie deals is a better long term spot to be in IMO. If we got Harden, I think you end up with Wall & Harden as your foundation and then that's it. Your filling in the rest with Ilyasovas and Andersons and that's the best you can do. That's a good team, but I don't think it's a contender without Wall becoming a legit top 5 player, in which case, almost any construction could produce a contender.

Because of the way our contracts are staggered, I think we'll be able to make a legit run at Kevin Love if he opts out. Then the next two summers we can use cap exceptions to keep Beal and Porter at whatever dollar amount we want. Wall, Beal, Porter, Love is an incredible core IMO. Wall needs to be in Love's ear when they work out over the summers, telling him how great DC is. The team should reach out to Stan Love and try and get him to recruit Kevin. That group is a legitimate contender IMO.

Only time will tell about Porter. I hope you're right. I still envy Houston.

[deneem4]

Porter is the xfactor...if porter is a 15/7 player with defense beal was worth...harden and whoever was going to get us to the playoffs...nene would've played more anf we would have attracted quality f/a but after reigning wall and harden and with nene contract our books wouldve been pretty tight...

So even doe harden would've made us a better team short term...because of nene **** contract harden extension and wsll extension we would've been close to the cap which limits us from signing a quality sf and center and bench depth

[deneem4]

Porter is the xfactor...if porter is a 15/7 player with defense beal was worth...harden and whoever was going to get us to the playoffs...nene would've played more anf we would have attracted quality f/a but after reigning wall and harden and with nene contract our books wouldve been pretty tight...

So even doe harden would've made us a better team short term...because of nene **** contract harden extension and wsll extension we would've been close to the cap which limits us from signing a quality sf and center and bench depth...we would've had to choose between 1 or the other

[stevemcqueen1]

If they made the Harden trade and didn't make the Okariza trade, they still would have had room for either Anderson or Ilyasova. That would have been a better outcome, imo.

Where does Porter factor into that? If we had Harden to stabilize the roster when Wall was out, doubt we get Porter.

I think Beal is going to be nearly as good as Harden. Having Porter as a third piece, plus the money left over from getting Beal and Porter on rookie deals is a better long term spot to be in IMO. If we got Harden, I think you end up with Wall & Harden as your foundation and then that's it. Your filling in the rest with Ilyasovas and Andersons and that's the best you can do. That's a good team, but I don't think it's a contender without Wall becoming a legit top 5 player, in which case, almost any construction could produce a contender.

Because of the way our contracts are staggered, I think we'll be able to make a legit run at Kevin Love if he opts out. Then the next two summers we can use cap exceptions to keep Beal and Porter at whatever dollar amount we want. Wall, Beal, Porter, Love is an incredible core IMO. Wall needs to be in Love's ear when they work out over the summers, telling him how great DC is. The team should reach out to Stan Love and try and get him to recruit Kevin. That group is a legitimate contender IMO.

Only time will tell about Porter. I hope you're right. I still envy Houston.

Houston is a lot more enviable after snagging Howard. That was an unprecedented coup. He must have HATED LA to walk away from so much money. We wouldn't have been able to get Howard too. Wouldn't have had the money, nor would we have had those important personal factors like Parsons and McHale.

Houston is in a good spot, potentially a great one if they can snag in one more max contract guy this summer. But I think we're going to be in a great spot too if we can snag in a big FA too.

To me Porter is a 6'9 Beal. I'm satisfied because we paired the platonic ideal set of wings with Wall IMO. Those guys are such good fits with him. And we've still got some powder left for one more guy.

[GhostsOfGil]

But Beal is an elite shooter and has all star potential. I just don't see that with Porter (of course I could be wrong). It's funny, everyone is hoping Porter becomes a 15/7 player yet scoffed at the Illy trade.