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Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1341 » by jivelikenice » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:26 pm

tontoz wrote:
deneem4 wrote:
Beal didnt show his greatness until wall came into the picture...thats fact...





Beal's biggest moment of the season was the game winner against OKC on Jan 7 (he had 22/5/4 that game going 5-7 from 3). A couple of games before that he had 24/6/4 against the Nets including a 4 point play at the end of the 3rd quarter, game tying foul shots at the end of the game and a game tying jumper.

Wall didn't play until Jan 12.


Beal was beginning to put it together, but I think Wall's presense (or the presense of another person who actually attracted attention from multiple defenders) helped him. And while the game winner was his biggest shot of the year, Beal's all-star potential flashed in the small set of games he played alongside Wall and Nene. Those games were the ones where I actually thought that we may have drafted someone who is more than just a nice, solid player.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1342 » by tontoz » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:41 pm

Last December Beal shot 18% from 3 on 4 attempts per game. In January Beal shot 51% from 3 on 4 attempts per game. If anyone seriously believes that Wall caused Beals 3 point shooting to improve by 33% they have been sniffing too much glue.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1343 » by nuposse04 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:28 pm

For those who are advocating Nene for Pau (cause he's expiring I assume)...With all that cap space in '14...who the **** are we suppose to sign honestly? Monroe? Look at the remaining bigs on the '14 list...there is hardly anyone worth a damn left. If we could move nene coupled with some incentive to bring another long term asset in the front line, I'd be on board...but if Monroe is the best target we got left...I'm not sure i'd want to move a '14 1st+ w/e else in order to acquire the next coming of Boozer.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1344 » by payitforward » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:35 pm

deneem4 wrote:So what happen with the nets last yr?

If u watch basketball u should its as mental as it is talent wise...monte ellis can put up kobe #s but he wont impact your team like kobe...

The Nets didn't add many better players; they just added guys with bigger names. Oh, and that's what I said at the time. So no need for me to answer your question. They are not going to be as good as they think this year either. Because... they are adding guys near the end of their career whose numbers are not near what once they were.

deneem4 wrote:Jrue holiday can put up chris paul numbers but u would be an idiot to tradr paul for him

No, deneem, Monta Ellis can't and doesn't put up Kobe numbers; nor can Holiday put up Chris Paul numbers. Not even close. You want to compare their per-40 minute numbers? Here you go:

http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?y ... 5B14%5D=14

Not even close. And look at the TS%: Chris Paul 59%; Jrue Holiday 49%. Paul's numbers are better, because he is a better player. Better players put up better numbers. That's what it means to be a better player. Paul scores more points at higher efficiency. That's numbers. He turns it over less -- numbers. He steals it more -- numbers. He gets more assists -- numbers. He gets to the line more -- numbers. He shoots a higher % when at the line -- numbers. But Jrue Holiday shoots a higher 3pt % -- numbers -- and so we must say he is a better 3-point shooter than Chris Paul. Some number more of his 3pt. attempts go in. So he's better at that.

deneem4 wrote:U my friend are an idiot....

Beal didnt show his greatness until wall came into the picture...thats fact...

Go watch soccer that's extremely simple for a simple minded guy like u

You know... I don't really mind that you call me an idiot, but it does make me hope I didn't call you one -- if so, please accept my apology. But, even though I don't mind (and even if I did it too -- in fact, all the more so!), I must say that I don't think it's a great practice. It's fine to have extremely different opinions, even ones that are way off like yours, but lets keep it reasonably civil, ok?

In other words, no problem this time but please don't do it again, ok?

Oh, and the idea that Beal needed Wall to show how good he is and can be is pretty much ridiculous -- why do you think he was chosen #3 in the draft before he even turned 19?

And as to soccer, or football as it's known in the rest of the world, many people think it's the greatest of all games and it's often called "the beautiful game." Personally, I don't understand it; i.e. I don't know it well enough to understand what guys are doing on the field.

Neither do you, apparently. So that's two sports you seem not to understand. :)
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1345 » by payitforward » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:40 pm

deneem4 wrote:...jordan crawford went 9/13 tht game vs the nets....
The thunder game vesley was a rebound shy of double double webster put up 24 shooting over 50% and better than beal even seraphin put up 19pts.

Awright, deneem! You're a numbers guy; you're proving something w/ numbers.

(I like having you around, deneem, passion is a good thing. But if you keep insulting folks, man.... Take a deep breath and don't do it any more.)
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1346 » by Nivek » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:55 pm

Beal's improved shooting did sorta coincide with a PG's return to the lineup from injury. That PG wasn't John Wall, though -- it was A.J. Price.

You could look it up.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1347 » by deneem4 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:10 pm

U jus brought out a stat sheet but im a numbers guy??
Thats very contradicting

And showed how close jrue stats is to pau with the only major difference is the 10% shooting even though jrue shoots 25% more shoots and paul is paid 9mil more and plays with another allstar and been in the league 4yrs longer they have quite comparable #s

So even though paul slightly edges out jrue stats wise, hes tht much of a better player and difference maker
So even though nene and pau stats are similar pau is jus tht much of a better player and difference maker?

Everybody had a good game vs the thunder, the thundr was horrible thst game, I was jus making a point it wasn't like beal jus played better than the rest of the team like hes doing now...

Oh and in 10/11 monta and kobe had a VERY similar season...except monta didnt mske playoffs or allstar team...ddespite his #s..

Im nt a numbers guy at all...imma mentality-ist...we suck cause oir mentality, we dont hsve no one on our team with a winners mentality...
Sad to say it but crawford was our toughest player...he didn't care he played to win and if nobody else wanted to score he would *try*...rice jr and beal migh hsve tht title now...in the playoffs tht type of player matter...thts how wall played ending last season, he knew he was the only person capable of scoring....thts y chris paul cant win now compared to the hornets chris paul...thts y durant couldn't get past the grizzlies ...basketball is ask mental as skill...ask lebron snd jason terry in 2011...and please dont make me mentiom tht old guy tht actually won them the championship. ..

And thts why having a winner like pau can help us...thts y the nets will be good this season(along with the bench) that's y Howard couldnt push the lakers past the 1st rd...hes not a winner,

Regardless of who we get if we dont get some type of player with deep playoff experience were not going to make it anywhere...

We need a pau even if its for a season...he'll be a for sure playoff ticket for us we can grab the 6th spot n duke it out with indiana or nets...

Tht give beal and wall a real taste of playoffs...not gettin swept by miami or bulls and going back with same core and an older nene...

Freeagents would actually think were capable of something...might can get a Aldridge for monroe sign and trade...
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1348 » by Nivek » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:34 am

Crawford played to win? Wow, I've learned something today. I thought he played for FGA.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1349 » by payitforward » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:09 am

deneem4 wrote:So even though paul slightly edges out jrue stats wise, hes tht much of a better player and difference maker

deneem, he doesn't "slightly edge out" jrue -- he blows him away. He has *way fewer* turnovers, *way more* steals, *way more* assists, gets to the line *way more*, and shoots a *way higher* % from the line.

And a 10% difference in TS% is not small it's enormous! If you look at point guards who played at least 1800 minutes at 30 minutes a game (i.e. starters where we have a reasonable number of minutes to judge on), Chris Paul had the highest TS% in the league. Jrue Holiday had the 2d lowest TS% in the league. Big difference.

Ditto comparing Kobe to Monta Ellis in '10-11 -- it's not close! Kobe had a 23.7 PER; Ellis was 18.7. Last year it was even higher. And if you look at WS40, a more accurate assessment of a player's overall contribution to winning, Kobe had an 8.5 last year and Ellis was 4.8.

I don't get your points. In fact, the numbers *support* what you are saying -- which is that Kobe is way better than Ellis and CP3 is way better than Holiday. How could they be way better w/o that "better-ness" showing up in the numbers?

But I want to stop debating this w/ you; you're convinced, data and information doesn't affect you, so there's no point.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1350 » by montestewart » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:42 am

payitforward wrote:
deneem4 wrote:U my friend are an idiot....

You know... I don't really mind that you call me an idiot, but it does make me hope I didn't call you one -- if so, please accept my apology.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1351 » by deneem4 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:53 am

montestewart wrote:
payitforward wrote:
deneem4 wrote:U my friend are an idiot....

You know... I don't really mind that you call me an idiot, but it does make me hope I didn't call you one -- if so, please accept my apology.

I apologize sir
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1352 » by mhd » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:27 pm

I think the guy to target is Hawes. Philly isn't getting a 1st rounder for him, and he's expiring, so he likely won't be going back. EG liked him when he came out.

I'd offer our 2nd rounder+Singleton+Ves to see if Philly would bite.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1353 » by Nivek » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:34 pm

Hawes is decent. If for some reason Philly took that fresh bag of warm poo for Hawes, I'd turn around swap Seraphin and a 1st for Faried.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1354 » by verbal8 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:54 pm

mhd wrote:I think the guy to target is Hawes. Philly isn't getting a 1st rounder for him, and he's expiring, so he likely won't be going back. EG liked him when he came out.

I'd offer our 2nd rounder+Singleton+Ves to see if Philly would bite.


It would probably take including Booker and/or Glen Rice Jr. I think something around Booker and filler for Hawes could make a lot of sense. Booker is a decent player, but he won't disrupt the tank or command significant money long-term.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1355 » by DANNYLANDOVER » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:22 pm

payitforward wrote:
deneem4 wrote:So even though paul slightly edges out jrue stats wise, hes tht much of a better player and difference maker

deneem, he doesn't "slightly edge out" jrue -- he blows him away. He has *way fewer* turnovers, *way more* steals, *way more* assists, gets to the line *way more*, and shoots a *way higher* % from the line.

And a 10% difference in TS% is not small it's enormous! If you look at point guards who played at least 1800 minutes at 30 minutes a game (i.e. starters where we have a reasonable number of minutes to judge on), Chris Paul had the highest TS% in the league. Jrue Holiday had the 2d lowest TS% in the league. Big difference.

Ditto comparing Kobe to Monta Ellis in '10-11 -- it's not close! Kobe had a 23.7 PER; Ellis was 18.7. Last year it was even higher. And if you look at WS40, a more accurate assessment of a player's overall contribution to winning, Kobe had an 8.5 last year and Ellis was 4.8.

I don't get your points. In fact, the numbers *support* what you are saying -- which is that Kobe is way better than Ellis and CP3 is way better than Holiday. How could they be way better w/o that "better-ness" showing up in the numbers?

But I want to stop debating this w/ you; you're convinced, data and information doesn't affect you, so there's no point.

I am still shocked that people argue with deneem/Deivy and Knighthonor on this board.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1356 » by LyricalRico » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:29 pm

Nivek wrote:Hawes is decent. If for some reason Philly took that fresh bag of warm poo for Hawes, I'd turn around swap Seraphin and a 1st for Faried.


I'd be fine with both of those trades. I'd even send Booker to either team to make the deals work, then just use Ariza as a small-ball PF.

Nene/Hawes
Faried/Ariza
Webster/Porter
Beal/Rice
Wall/Maynor/Temple
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1357 » by Nivek » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:33 pm

Yeah -- if the trade is a bag of fresh warm poo plus Booker and a 1st round pick for Faried and Hawes, that's good for the Wizards.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1358 » by deneem4 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:52 pm

payitforward wrote:
deneem4 wrote:So even though paul slightly edges out jrue stats wise, hes tht much of a better player and difference maker

deneem, he doesn't "slightly edge out" jrue -- he blows him away. He has *way fewer* turnovers, *way more* steals, *way more* assists, gets to the line *way more*, and shoots a *way higher* % from the line.

And a 10% difference in TS% is not small it's enormous! If you look at point guards who played at least 1800 minutes at 30 minutes a game (i.e. starters where we have a reasonable number of minutes to judge on), Chris Paul had the highest TS% in the league. Jrue Holiday had the 2d lowest TS% in the league. Big difference.

Ditto comparing Kobe to Monta Ellis in '10-11 -- it's not close! Kobe had a 23.7 PER; Ellis was 18.7. Last year it was even higher. And if you look at WS40, a more accurate assessment of a player's overall contribution to winning, Kobe had an 8.5 last year and Ellis was 4.8.

I don't get your points. In fact, the numbers *support* what you are saying -- which is that Kobe is way better than Ellis and CP3 is way better than Holiday. How could they be way better w/o that "better-ness" showing up in the numbers?

But I want to stop debating this w/ you; you're convinced, data and information doesn't affect you, so there's no point.


Thts the exact point im making with pau and nene...pau is tht much better than nene....whether u want to admit it or not..even rose and simmons...agree on wht type of player nene is...hes not a game changer hes not a factor like pau is...comparing pau to nene is like comparing monta to kobe or jrue to paul
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1359 » by Ruzious » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:57 pm

Nivek wrote:Yeah -- if the trade is a bag of fresh warm poo plus Booker and a 1st round pick for Faried and Hawes, that's good for the Wizards.

I like it. A big 3 at the PF/C positions of Faried/Hawes/Nene would be a nice upgrade.

Thow in Temple to Philly, because they seem to love tall thin guards who can't shoot, and Temple University is in their neighborhood.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV 

Post#1360 » by Nivek » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:01 pm

At risk of incurring deneem's wrath, in the <gulp> numbers, there was very little difference between Nene and Pau Gasol last season. Comparable efficiency -- Nene shot a little better from the floor and the FT line, Gasol had more assists and fewer turnovers; offensive boards were about the same; Nene went to the FT line more often. Nene had more blocks, Gasol more steals. Nene fouled almost twice as often.

Neither guy was healthy last season.

Of course, I'm not accounting for the magic beans Gasol carries in his sock, which make a HUGE difference.
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