Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing

[leswizards]

And it goes w/o saying that amnestying Blatche was primarily his decision.

Randy is partially at fault for the amnestying of Blatche. I don't think the team was planning on amnestying Blatche until Randy made it public that he refused to coach Blatche. I felt it was grounds for firing Randy, or at the very least someone in management should have said "you might want to reconsider, because I don't think you have enough job security to be refusing to coach certain players".

[Nivek]

And it goes w/o saying that amnestying Blatche was primarily his decision.

Randy is partially at fault for the amnestying of Blatche. I don't think the team was planning on amnestying Blatche until Randy made it public that he refused to coach Blatche. I felt it was grounds for firing Randy, or at the very least someone in management should have said "you might want to reconsider, because I don't think you have enough job security to be refusing to coach certain players".

Please share a link to a story where Wittman "refused" to coach Blatche. Best I could find on a quick google search was something from David Aldridge wrote saying, "...Wittman...does not want to coach Blatche going forward, according to several sources." Which is not even close to a refusal.

And no, even if Wittman outright said, "Either he goes or I go," I still wouldn't consider Wittman even partially "at fault" for the team using the amnesty provision on Blatche. Given Blatche's production, conditioning and terrible behavior, that would have been an easy choice -- and Wittman's nothing special as a coach. Coaches usually have this weird desire to coach players who give a ****. Honestly, kudos to Wittman if he stood up for what he wanted and was wiling to put his job on the line.

[hands11]

I didn't understand why they acquired Nene, traded Lewis for a competent big, Okafor; but then felt the need to amnesty Blatche.

If anything, they would have had depth up front by keeping Blatche.

I ranted about this after the Okafor signing. Once we made the S&T for Okafor, we obliterated all of the cap room we would have generated by amnestying Blatche and buying out Lewis. Clearly, EG had NO PLAN WHATSOEVER going into that offseason. If he knew he was going to make the Okafor trade, then there was no reason to amnesty Blatche. We could have kept Blatche on the roster for the SAME EXACT MONEY that Ted was forced to pay him after amnestying him. There would have been no salary cap implications and no luxtax implications. But because EG had no plan at all, he amnestied Blatche first, and then haphazardly signed Okafor.

I get the argument that Blatche may have had to go for chemistry purposes, but we could have kept Blatche and buried him as the 15th man for spite if nothing else. It's better than paying him to play for the Nets. And maybe Blatche would have had a come to Jesus moment, gotten himself into decent shape, and contributed by the second half of the season.

It was an absolutely senseless waste of resources. Ted should have fired EG just for that.

I have posted plenty about .. why they should have keep Dray.. amnestying him was selling at rock bottom and for no return. They are still paying him. But they decided they wanted to a clean slate over maximizing assets.

But keep him would have been a total distraction since he was booed ever time he took the floor. My suggestion was to just play him at away games where he could find his grove and then reintroduce him to the DC fans once he has proven something. Not a perfect solution but doable.

Crawford for nothing was another dumb move.

I was all for Randy setting a higher standard and being a hard ass, but its looking like he doesn't know how to get the most out of players. I felt Crawford was used wrong. He should have been groomed as a back up PG which is now happening in Boston. Dray could have been end of bench useful, he is doing pretty well in Brooklyn. Ves isn't used right or progressing. They can't even fix his FT shooting form and he gets no minutes after putting in a good summer. Same with Kevin. Singleton. Won't coach Dray.

I know none of these players are Kobe, but its a coaches job to get the most from a player. Looking more like some of this falls on Randy.

[hands11]

And it goes w/o saying that amnestying Blatche was primarily his decision.

Randy is partially at fault for the amnestying of Blatche. I don't think the team was planning on amnestying Blatche until Randy made it public that he refused to coach Blatche. I felt it was grounds for firing Randy, or at the very least someone in management should have said "you might want to reconsider, because I don't think you have enough job security to be refusing to coach certain players".

Yeah. I remember that. I was fine with the benching to send the signal to get him in shape. But publicly saying you won't coach a player isn't right.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I didn't understand why they acquired Nene, traded Lewis for a competent big, Okafor; but then felt the need to amnesty Blatche.

If anything, they would have had depth up front by keeping Blatche.

I wasn't against them ditching Blatchemo, but they do seem to make dramatic, wholesale changes that sometimes have the appearance of panic on the heels of a long period of denial

This. They IMO hold grudges and "purge dissidents".

They dealt with gun gate with drama. They got upset at Gilbert and his gun fingers. A dunk off a hustle play by McGee upset them. They hated Pam McGee for speaking to media about player development. Jan Vesely spoke out this summer. He will never play again as long as Randy is coach IMO. Coaches and management rarely deal with slights with humor or grace. They deflect blame, don't man up, and they rush to trade.

Blatche was right about the uncaring, non family way he was released. They put the guy on a pedestal to begin with. He never played with one good big next to him unless you count Haywood. The Wizards are the ones who ran with Blatche, Young, and McGee. That was a case of follow the leader if you find one.

The comments back and forth and drama reveal a lot and the losing has been consistent. That's on the organization from the top down. Blatche is just one flawed player. I don't fault him like I do Ernie and Ted Leonsis.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Nivek]

Please don't elevate Blatche to the level of "dissident."

Blatche may be "right" that the team was "uncaring" when they released him. Tit for tat, I guess -- he clearly didn't care about being a good basketball player, a well-conditioned athlete, a coachable guy or even a good teammate while he was in Washington. Aside from which, so? NBA teams aren't families -- they're businesses. It's not like the team purged a family member. They fired an employee -- an unproductive, uncoachable, unteachable employee. AND, they paid him $23 million on his way out the door.

Grunfeld, Leonsis and the front office have been about as inept as they could be. The mistakes they made in dealing with Blatche were not in releasing him, they were in imagining he could be part of their Big 3 and they were in giving him a contract extension he hadn't earned.

And in no way could they be construed as being in a "rush to trade" Blatche. He was with the team for 7 seasons. They gave him a bunch of chances and he pissed on all of them.

[Ruzious]

I didn't understand why they acquired Nene, traded Lewis for a competent big, Okafor; but then felt the need to amnesty Blatche.

If anything, they would have had depth up front by keeping Blatche.

I wasn't against them ditching Blatchemo, but they do seem to make dramatic, wholesale changes that sometimes have the appearance of panic on the heels of a long period of denial

This. They IMO hold grudges and "purge dissidents".

They dealt with gun gate with drama. They got upset at Gilbert and his gun fingers. A dunk off a hustle play by McGee upset them. They hated Pam McGee for speaking to media about player development. Jan Vesely spoke out this summer. He will never play again as long as Randy is coach IMO. Coaches and management rarely deal with slights with humor or grace. They deflect blame, don't man up, and they rush to trade.

Blatche was right about the uncaring, non family way he was released. They put the guy on a pedestal to begin with. He never played with one good big next to him unless you count Haywood. The Wizards are the ones who ran with Blatche, Young, and McGee. That was a case of follow the leader if you find one.

The comments back and forth and drama reveal a lot and the losing has been consistent. That's on the organization from the top down. Blatche is just one flawed player. I don't fault him like I do Ernie and Ted Leonsis.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

The losing has a lot more to do with acquiring AND relying on multiple stupid players like Blatche than it does with how they've dealt with stupid players like Blatche.

[DCZards]

ccj, it's not the fact that Blatche is a "flawed player" that frustrates me. It's the fact that he'll never live up to his tremendous potential because he's lazy and disintereseted in being anything more than a so-so player. It's a shameful waste of talent.

The Zards certainly made mistakes with Blatche but you let Andray off the hook by trying to pin all of the blame for his shortcomings on coaching and the Zards FO.

...Oh, I noticed you didn't mention the time that Blatche refused to go back into a game. I guess that was the fault of the Zards as well.

As for McGee, it wasn't about "player development" with his mom. It was that she thought the Zards were not fully utilizing her son, who she mistakenly believes is a potential superstar. Javale (or Pierre) is not as good a player as either he or his mother believes he is...and his minutes and play with Denver has proven that.

[tontoz]

The big mistake management made with Blatche was signing him to that premature extension. There are plenty of legit reasons to criticize EG/Ted. No need to try to create things to blame them for.

McGee played as a backup to Koufus last season. So far this season he is only playing 11 minutes a game under yet another coach. How many coaches does he have to go through before people realize that the coaches aren't the problem?

[TGW]

Hey Hands, your strategy of only playing Blatche on away games wouldn't work. I would make it a point to heckle that sorry loser while he was on the bench as well.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Please don't elevate Blatche to the level of "dissident."

Blatche may be "right" that the team was "uncaring" when they released him. Tit for tat, I guess -- he clearly didn't care about being a good basketball player, a well-conditioned athlete, a coachable guy or even a good teammate while he was in Washington. Aside from which, so? NBA teams aren't families -- they're businesses. It's not like the team purged a family member. They fired an employee -- an unproductive, uncoachable, unteachable employee. AND, they paid him $23 million on his way out the door.

Grunfeld, Leonsis and the front office have been about as inept as they could be. The mistakes they made in dealing with Blatche were not in releasing him, they were in imagining he could be part of their Big 3 and they were in giving him a contract extension he hadn't earned.

And in no way could they be construed as being in a "rush to trade" Blatche. He was with the team for 7 seasons. They gave him a bunch of chances and he pissed on all of them.

I was thinking the trade deadline move of McGee for injured Nene as a rush move. They rushed/panicked on the Gortat+pick for injured Okafor, too.

I think they rushed to amnesty Blatche.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

ccj, it's not the fact that Blatche is a "flawed player" that frustrates me. It's the fact that he'll never live up to his tremendous potential because he's lazy and disintereseted in being anything more than a so-so player. It's a shameful waste of talent.

The Zards certainly made mistakes with Blatche but you let Andray off the hook by trying to pin all of the blame for his shortcomings on coaching and the Zards FO.

...Oh, I noticed you didn't mention the time that Blatche refused to go back into a game. I guess that was the fault of the Zards as well.

As for McGee, it wasn't about "player development" with his mom. It was that she thought the Zards were not fully utilizing her son, who she mistakenly believes is a potential superstar. Javale (or Pierre) is not as good a player as either he or his mother believes he is...and his minutes and play with Denver has proven that.

Blatche played up to a 21 PER, well above average, for the Nets last season. He's not a leaper and IMO does get just about all he can out of his natural talent. He is called lazy just like other former Wizards are called knuckle heads in part because they were associated with the loser franchise I've supported this past 40 years.

Blatche is a better player than Ernie is a GM, and to this date, Ted has been an owner IMO.

As for McGee, the defensive stats tell the story. Once he left the Wizards and got his great deal, I no longer felt the need to be a big supporter. I was more on his side than that of Wizard management. He's not as good as he or mom believe, but he's still just as good or better a player than EG or Ted are at what they do, IMO. Better because he's not mean spirited, petty, condescending, or reactionary in disloyal ways. Just my opinion.

The Wizards continually get it wrong but it's always on the players.

[Upper Decker]

Philly just got punked by GSW, will they have a fire on Wednesday to avenge that loss and prove to the world they're not bottom feeders? Let's hope they come back with a vengeance.

Could you imagine the s-storm that’ll ensue at 0-4 with the very real, very likely 0-8 record within a week?

This may make me sound like a bad fan, but I’m anxious, nervous, excited, hopeful the Wiz come out in Philly and roll-over. Ah, what an exciting time to be a Wizards fan.

[Ruzious]

ccj, it's not the fact that Blatche is a "flawed player" that frustrates me. It's the fact that he'll never live up to his tremendous potential because he's lazy and disintereseted in being anything more than a so-so player. It's a shameful waste of talent.

The Zards certainly made mistakes with Blatche but you let Andray off the hook by trying to pin all of the blame for his shortcomings on coaching and the Zards FO.

...Oh, I noticed you didn't mention the time that Blatche refused to go back into a game. I guess that was the fault of the Zards as well.

As for McGee, it wasn't about "player development" with his mom. It was that she thought the Zards were not fully utilizing her son, who she mistakenly believes is a potential superstar. Javale (or Pierre) is not as good a player as either he or his mother believes he is...and his minutes and play with Denver has proven that.

Blatche played up to a 21 PER, well above average, for the Nets last season. He's not a leaper and IMO does get just about all he can out of his natural talent. He is called lazy just like other former Wizards are called knuckle heads in part because they were associated with the loser franchise I've supported this past 40 years.

Blatche is a better player than Ernie is a GM, and to this date, Ted has been an owner IMO.

As for McGee, the defensive stats tell the story. Once he left the Wizards and got his great deal, I no longer felt the need to be a big supporter. I was more on his side than that of Wizard management. He's not as good as he or mom believe, but he's still just as good or better a player than EG or Ted are at what they do, IMO. Better because he's not mean spirited, petty, condescending, or reactionary in disloyal ways. Just my opinion.

The Wizards continually get it wrong but it's always on the players.

Yes, they got it wrong BECAUSE THEY RELIED ON UNRELIABLE PEOPLE LIKE BLATCHE.

[LyricalRico]

New ESPN 30 for 30 about Ernie airs tonight!

When I spoke with Ernie, I was even more intrigued. He'd quietly endured struggles of his own, and his humility belied his distinct place in basketball history -- and his enduring role in its present.

http://espn.go.com/30for30/film?page=bernieandernie

[hands11]

Hey Hands, your strategy of only playing Blatche on away games wouldn't work. I would make it a point to heckle that sorry loser while he was on the bench as well.

LOL.

I should have accounted for that I guess.

[hands11]

Philly just got punked by GSW, will they have a fire on Wednesday to avenge that loss and prove to the world they're not bottom feeders? Let's hope they come back with a vengeance.

Could you imagine the s-storm that’ll ensue at 0-4 with the very real, very likely 0-8 record within a week?

This may make me sound like a bad fan, but I’m anxious, nervous, excited, hopeful the Wiz come out in Philly and roll-over. Ah, what an exciting time to be a Wizards fan.

I've been there before when EFJ was the HC so I get where you are coming from. Doesn't make you a bad fan if you feel the fix is in reach.

Hard to take a position that getting a legit good proven coach is a bad thing. I didn't think they could attract one before but they might have a better chance now. If they really don't want this season to be lost, 0-5 might be as far as they ride Randy.

[TGW]

My first choice for a replacement is Nate McMillian. Not sure why he doesn't have a gig...he took the Blazers to three straight playoff appearances after losing Oden and Roy. I'd say he did it a pretty decent job considering the injuries he had to endure.

[payitforward]

I didn't understand why they acquired Nene, traded Lewis for a competent big, Okafor; but then felt the need to amnesty Blatche.

If anything, they would have had depth up front by keeping Blatche.

I ranted about this after the Okafor signing. Once we made the S&T for Okafor, we obliterated all of the cap room we would have generated by amnestying Blatche and buying out Lewis. Clearly, EG had NO PLAN WHATSOEVER going into that offseason. If he knew he was going to make the Okafor trade, then there was no reason to amnesty Blatche. We could have kept Blatche on the roster for the SAME EXACT MONEY that Ted was forced to pay him after amnestying him. There would have been no salary cap implications and no luxtax implications. But because EG had no plan at all, he amnestied Blatche first, and then haphazardly signed Okafor.

I get the argument that Blatche may have had to go for chemistry purposes, but we could have kept Blatche and buried him as the 15th man for spite if nothing else. It's better than paying him to play for the Nets. And maybe Blatche would have had a come to Jesus moment, gotten himself into decent shape, and contributed by the second half of the season.

It was an absolutely senseless waste of resources. Ted should have fired EG just for that.

I have posted plenty about .. why they should have keep Dray.. amnestying him was selling at rock bottom and for no return. They are still paying him. But they decided they wanted to a clean slate over maximizing assets.

But keep him would have been a total distraction since he was booed ever time he took the floor. My suggestion was to just play him at away games where he could find his grove and then reintroduce him to the DC fans once he has proven something. Not a perfect solution but doable.

Crawford for nothing was another dumb move.

I was all for Randy setting a higher standard and being a hard ass, but its looking like he doesn't know how to get the most out of players. I felt Crawford was used wrong. He should have been groomed as a back up PG which is now happening in Boston. Dray could have been end of bench useful, he is doing pretty well in Brooklyn. Ves isn't used right or progressing. They can't even fix his FT shooting form and he gets no minutes after putting in a good summer. Same with Kevin. Singleton. Won't coach Dray.

I know none of these players are Kobe, but its a coaches job to get the most from a player. Looking more like some of this falls on Randy.

Randy?

1. Amnestying Blatche was (had to be! obviously!) Ted's decision -- and having stuck his foot in his mouth w/ his "new big three" announcement, I can see why he would want to put the whole thing behind him. It's also the case that Dray was utterly horrible and completely useless. Last year, having seen the end of his career in front of him, he got his act together for the season. This year he has started out just awful (shooting 25% -- from the floor *and* the line!), and he looks like he has a down vest on under his jersey.

2. Trading Crawford for nothing -- that's on our incompetent GM, not Randy. I would have traded Crawford half way through the '11-12 season, by which time it was already obvious to me he was an incorrigible, relentless chucker who'd be of no use. We could have gotten something for him at that point -- I'd have taken a 2012 Round 2 pick (I bet we'd have gotten a pretty high one). Ernie, in his usual manner, waited until he had no value. Hey, at least he didn't give him a raise and an extension!

Hands, you're also crowing about being right about Crawford -- maybe you ought to wait until he actually succeeds at something? And, btw, I'd be happy for him to succeed and for you to be right -- alas, it ain't likely to happen!

[payitforward]

Please don't elevate Blatche to the level of "dissident."

Blatche may be "right" that the team was "uncaring" when they released him. Tit for tat, I guess -- he clearly didn't care about being a good basketball player, a well-conditioned athlete, a coachable guy or even a good teammate while he was in Washington. Aside from which, so? NBA teams aren't families -- they're businesses. It's not like the team purged a family member. They fired an employee -- an unproductive, uncoachable, unteachable employee. AND, they paid him $23 million on his way out the door.

Grunfeld, Leonsis and the front office have been about as inept as they could be. The mistakes they made in dealing with Blatche were not in releasing him, they were in imagining he could be part of their Big 3 and they were in giving him a contract extension he hadn't earned.

And in no way could they be construed as being in a "rush to trade" Blatche. He was with the team for 7 seasons. They gave him a bunch of chances and he pissed on all of them.

I was thinking the trade deadline move of McGee for injured Nene as a rush move. They rushed/panicked on the Gortat+pick for injured Okafor, too.

I think they rushed to amnesty Blatche.

Injured Nene? He came over and played his ass off! That said, I'd have kept JaVale, given him a qualifying offer, and let it play out. Nene was too big a risk.

But, yes, trading Okafor and a pick for a 6 month rental of Gortat is already playing out just the way we skeptics predicted it would -- but... didn't you *like* that trade? Less after we waived the other 2 guys, but still liked it somewhat?