John Wall is the best PG in the East right now

[B-easy]

Wall is playing well right now but in the last 20 games of last season he was playing much better. His PER was ~28 averaging 25/8/5 on excellent percentages. So far his rebounding has been down a little, and most worrying of all is his low FT count.

[hands11]

We've played a young Philly team twice. Why don't we wait and get a larger sample size before crowning John best PG in the East.

John has to prove himself in the half-court against elite teams before I get on-board the bandwagon.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

What fun would that be. Its what happens here.

Wall has been in interesting ride.

[hands11]

Wall is playing well right now but in the last 20 games of last season he was playing much better. His PER was ~28 averaging 25/8/5 on excellent percentages. So far his rebounding has been down a little, and most worrying of all is his low FT count.

I would think he is trying to help the team gel and trying to find his grove.

Changing roster with no Nene for two games and a new key player in Gortat added the last minute.

Considering that, I would have to say his play has been pretty amazing.

Last game was the first game they had Nene and Gortat in the starting line up. Beal hasn't even found his grove yet. I think we saw a glimpse of one way they can play offensively so now Randy should have learned at least 3-4 line ups that could work.

Wall, Beal, Trevor A, Nene, Gortat
Wall, Beal, Webster, Nene, Gortat
Wall, Beal, Webster, Treovr A, Gortat
Maynor, Wall, Webster, Kevin, Gortat

[pancakes3]

If Rose gets back to form that could change, and Kyrie is always going to be on his heels but...

As of right now, he's the best.

Thoughts?

Really? As of right now in these limited games and minutes? I'd say overall he hasn't been quite as good as Teague or Prigioni, and he hasn't been nearly as good as Michael Carter-Williams. Or Mario Chalmers for that matter.

He was certainly very good last night -- keep it up!

I understand that in matter of opinion there really isn't any definitive right or wrong but this would be as close to being definitively wrong as it gets.

[payitforward]

If Rose gets back to form that could change, and Kyrie is always going to be on his heels but...

As of right now, he's the best.

Thoughts?

Really? As of right now in these limited games and minutes? I'd say overall he hasn't been quite as good as Teague or Prigioni, and he hasn't been nearly as good as Michael Carter-Williams. Or Mario Chalmers for that matter.

He was certainly very good last night -- keep it up!

I understand that in matter of opinion there really isn't any definitive right or wrong but this would be as close to being definitively wrong as it gets.

By "this" you must mean the post you were in the process of writing?

Have you taken the trouble to look at these players' numbers? You do realize that wins and losses are 100% determined by numbers, don't you? At game's end, they don't ask the judge's to hold up big cards with their ratings of guys' skills, they just look up at the scoreboard, and the team with more points wins.

Actually... it's become kind of a waste of time to present a POV here based on analysis of the actual factors that actually cause wins and losses. So forget the above. Just as Ted says, John Wall is our "star" (no matter what he actually does on the court) and even moreso: just as Buck says on CSN, John Wall is a "superstar."

He's great, he's stellar -- there is nobody like him. Not only is he the best PG in the East, he's the best PG in the universe. He is so great that when he has a really good game, as he did in our win in Philly, we can see how obvious the fact is. And when he has crappy games... how can they matter given that he's a superstar?

[pancakes3]

You're right. How silly of me. Let me take the trouble to look at some numbers.

Oh. Prigioni is averaging 3.8/2.3/2.5 on 66/60/Not-Applicable shooting for a PER of 10.5? Well color me a two-toned combination of amazed and embarrassed. You're right. What a lemming I must be for believing the hype and the razzle-dazzle that Ted and Ernie has been feeding me (rectally no doubt). Thank you for showing me the light.

[stevemcqueen1]

You're right. How silly of me. Let me take the trouble to look at some numbers.

Oh. Prigioni is averaging 3.8/2.3/2.5 on 66/60/Not-Applicable shooting for a PER of 10.5? Well color me a two-toned combination of amazed and embarrassed. You're right. What a lemming I must be for believing the hype and the razzle-dazzle that Ted and Ernie has been feeding me (rectally no doubt). Thank you for showing me the light.

I'm laughing way too hard at (rectally no doubt).

[stevemcqueen1]

What are you talking about? Livingston couldn't score for crap even before his injury.

Livingston had a very pretty mid range pull up jumper that he shot from all over the floor before he got hurt. And he was a really effortless finisher with that long, smooth style. He could score.

[TheKingOfVa360]

What are you talking about? Livingston couldn't score for crap even before his injury.

Livingston had a very pretty mid range pull up jumper that he shot from all over the floor before he got hurt. And he was a really effortless finisher with that long, smooth style. He could score.

Not sure what Livingston you were watching but he was horrible at scoring. His jumper was bad and he couldn't finish through contact. He was a taller, poor mans Ricky Rubio.

[tontoz]

What are you talking about? Livingston couldn't score for crap even before his injury.

Livingston had a very pretty mid range pull up jumper that he shot from all over the floor before he got hurt. And he was a really effortless finisher with that long, smooth style. He could score.

He was a borderline bust, never averaged double figures and only came close once. His efficiency sucked too. In his first two seasons his TS% was 46%. In his 3rd it was 50%. He was a major disappointment before he got hurt.

[Zonkerbl]

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPass ... tOrder=DES

John Wall is the best distributor so far in the east, generating 22.3 points per game off of assists. While his 8.7 assists per game are only good for fourth overall, behind Jeff Teague of Atlanta in the east, a stunning 53% of his assists are three pointers (Jeff Teague? 36% Average among the top 25 in assists per game? 33%).

Repeat: BEST IN THE EAST.

Take that, Kyrie Irving!

[dobrojim]

still not seeing a parallel thread on the gen board that isn't locked.

[Illmatic21]

What are you talking about? Livingston couldn't score for crap even before his injury.

Livingston had a very pretty mid range pull up jumper that he shot from all over the floor before he got hurt. And he was a really effortless finisher with that long, smooth style. He could score.

He was a borderline bust, never averaged double figures and only came close once. His efficiency sucked too. In his first two seasons his TS% was 46%. In his 3rd it was 50%. He was a major disappointment before he got hurt.

That's how I remember it. Especially given his hype from HS, he was considered a bust.

[deneem4]

John wall isnt a winner though... (and hes my fav player)...when wall starts willing his team to wins then he'll be considered the best....until then...

1)Mcw
1.5)Wall
Kyrie
Teague

[stevemcqueen1]

MCW is shooting way above his average from three and is still only shooting 40% from the field. Once that drops off things will get ugly. He's still way above expectations right now, but he's got a lot of work on his shot to do before he comes a player. He's doing his thing right now because nobody cares, but the scouting report will get out, his shot will decline to the mean and he'll just be "good".

Still though, I think he'll win RoTY because he's getting the most volume out of all the rooks right now.

And I disagree with Parker being on CP3's tier steve. Parkers flaws were obvious in the finals. He's not a great playmaker but gets a lot of assists because he's the main ball handler in an offense full of ridiculously efficient players in a great system. He's a tier below Curry/Westbrook in the West imo.

MCW's shooting percentages got messed up because Wall took it upon himself to make sure he knew he was a rookie. Aside from that, MCW has been amazingly good so far. Winning POTW in your first week is crazy. He's got so much upside and if he's playing this well this early, you have to think he can become a great player. His shot does need work. But we've seen this is something PGs can iron out in time.

If Nerlens does pan out and become the defender we think he can be, Philly is going to have an amazing foundation for defense between him and MCW.

Right now he's running away with ROTY and PGs have won a lot of the recent ROTY awards. Every other rookie will be subject to hitting the wall too, I think its his award to lose.

Regarding Parker, I think he's better than Curry and Westbrook. He's a magnificent offensive player. Arguably the best offensive PG in the league. He's the engine that drives San Antonio's offensive system. I don't agree that he's not a natural playmaker. He's one of the most instinctive offensive players I've watched and he's one of the best decision makers at PG in the game. He wasn't always this way, but he has been for five or six years now. He's a great scorer too, a particularly great finisher and deadly scorer in intermediate areas from about 3 to 10 feet. One of the best in the league among all positions at scoring from this range. I don't think playing in a real system that goes beyond "alright PG, go do something" that you see with most of the league lessens him as a playmaker. Few of those PGs could run SA's offense like Parker. If anything, playing in a real offense that moves the ball depresses Parker's assist numbers compared to PGs that handle the ball the whole time for teams that don't pass and just run pick and rolls and drive and kick constantly.

I don't agree that the playoffs exposed flaws in his game. He had a very good postseason despite the serious ankle sprain in March. He torched the Lakers, got the better of Curry in their playoff matchup, and he torched Memphis. He was also off to a good start against Miami before he got hurt. His play for much of that Miami series was no worse than LeBron's was. And besides, Parker's resume of greatness goes back a lot further than last year's postseason. If any top PG has troubling flaws, it's Westbrook, who is not nearly the decision maker that Parker is.

[stevemcqueen1]

John wall isnt a winner though... (and hes my fav player)...when wall starts willing his team to wins then he'll be considered the best....until then...

1)Mcw
1.5)Wall
Kyrie
Teague

That's ridiculous. So MCW is a winner because his team has won three games? Nevermind the fact that John kicked his butt twice the times they played each other.

[stevemcqueen1]

MCW is shooting way above his average from three and is still only shooting 40% from the field. Once that drops off things will get ugly. He's still way above expectations right now, but he's got a lot of work on his shot to do before he comes a player. He's doing his thing right now because nobody cares, but the scouting report will get out, his shot will decline to the mean and he'll just be "good".

Still though, I think he'll win RoTY because he's getting the most volume out of all the rooks right now.

And I disagree with Parker being on CP3's tier steve. Parkers flaws were obvious in the finals. He's not a great playmaker but gets a lot of assists because he's the main ball handler in an offense full of ridiculously efficient players in a great system. He's a tier below Curry/Westbrook in the West imo.

I totally agree on MCW, but I don't agree on Parker. Parker was fabulous in the playoffs. He tailed off in the end because he was physically exhausted and appeared to be playing hurt. He was clearly nowhere near 100% the last few games. Off the top of my head, I can't think of one NBA player who's been more underrated in the 2000's.

Agreed. It's the Spurs effect. People have been tired of talking about how good are for a long time now. Plus you don't see a million annoying State Farm/Adidas/Nike commercials about any Spurs player. That stuff makes a huge difference in a player's brand and perception. He's "just" the best player on a juggernaut that wins 70% of their games every year.

[deneem4]

John wall isnt a winner though... (and hes my fav player)...when wall starts willing his team to wins then he'll be considered the best....until then...

1)Mcw
1.5)Wall
Kyrie
Teague

That's ridiculous. So MCW is a winner because his team has won three games? Nevermind the fact that John kicked his butt twice the times they played each other.

Yea..thts why we lost the 1st game...mcw outplayed wall those last 2 qtrs, we all saw it...he got his team the lead and held it

Wall kicked his butt the next game but he only won 1 game vs mcw winning 3...tht matters...its like saying paul george isnt better than lebron right now...when infact he is because hes winning...if this was the playoffs mcw would be in and we wouldnt...its only a small sample....but the question is whos the best right now...winning factors into that

[Higga]

John wall isnt a winner though... (and hes my fav player)...when wall starts willing his team to wins then he'll be considered the best....until then...

1)Mcw
1.5)Wall
Kyrie
Teague

That's ridiculous. So MCW is a winner because his team has won three games? Nevermind the fact that John kicked his butt twice the times they played each other.

Yea..thts why we lost the 1st game...mcw outplayed wall those last 2 qtrs, we all saw it...he got his team the lead and held it

Wall kicked his butt the next game but he only won 1 game vs mcw winning 3...tht matters...its like saying paul george isnt better than lebron right now...when infact he is because hes winning...if this was the playoffs mcw would be in and we wouldnt...its only a small sample....but the question is whos the best right now...winning factors into that

@ Carter-Williams being better than Wall. He's had like three good games. Wall roasted his ass twice. That guy is a scrub and will snap back into reality soon enough.

The whole "he's not a winner" argument is flawed. Look at our W-L record last year with and without Wall. All the great players need some help. Even Kobe could only will the Lakers to an 8 seed until they started bringing in guys like Pau Gasol. Lebron is really the exception as far as carrying teams, but he's a freak and if that's the standard you're holding Wall to then every player in the league is a scrub.

[deneem4]

That's ridiculous. So MCW is a winner because his team has won three games? Nevermind the fact that John kicked his butt twice the times they played each other.

Yea..thts why we lost the 1st game...mcw outplayed wall those last 2 qtrs, we all saw it...he got his team the lead and held it

Wall kicked his butt the next game but he only won 1 game vs mcw winning 3...tht matters...its like saying paul george isnt better than lebron right now...when infact he is because hes winning...if this was the playoffs mcw would be in and we wouldnt...its only a small sample....but the question is whos the best right now...winning factors into that

@ Carter-Williams being better than Wall. He's had like three good games. Wall roasted his ass twice. That guy is a scrub and will snap back into reality soon enough.

The whole "he's not a winner" argument is flawed. Look at our W-L record last year with and without Wall. All the great players need some help. Even Kobe could only will the Lakers to an 8 seed until they started bringing in guys like Pau Gasol. Lebron is really the exception as far as carrying teams, but he's a freak and if that's the standard you're holding Wall to then every player in the league is a scrub.

DUDE ITS A RIGHT NOW COMPARISON!
Well all know wall isnt the best pg in the east...but for righ now hes playing lik it, same with mcw...