John Wall is the best PG in the East right now

Post #61 » by **Zonkerbl** » Fri Nov 8, 2013 5:01 pm

Cute argument (good for you to stick up for your own!) but completely irrelevant. The facts show that Wall is the better distributor, by far.

Carter's been a pleasant surprise, though. Good for him.

Kanyewest · Post #62 » by **Kanyewest** » Fri Nov 8, 2013 6:34 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
deneem4 wrote:John wall isnt a winner though... (and hes my fav player)...when wall starts willing his team to wins then he'll be considered the best....until then...

1)Mcw
1.5)Wall
Kyrie
Teague

That's ridiculous. So MCW is a winner because his team has won three games? Nevermind the fact that John kicked his butt twice the times they played each other.

If we are going by this season alone, then MCW is up there with Wall. If we are talking about the past, Rondo, Rose, and Williams have all done more than Wall.

Dark Faze · Post #63 » by **Dark Faze** » Fri Nov 8, 2013 7:19 pm

Williams isn't really in the discussion right now. He's been irrelevant since the NJN trade and it's not a down year so much as just the reality of what he is now.

I think this version of Wall is better than any iteration of Rondo personally.

Rose? Wall isn't there yet.

stevemcqueen1 · Post #64 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 4:24 am

deneem4 wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:
deneem4 wrote:John wall isnt a winner though... (and hes my fav player)...when wall starts willing his team to wins then he'll be considered the best....until then...

1)Mcw
1.5)Wall
Kyrie
Teague

That's ridiculous. So MCW is a winner because his team has won three games? Nevermind the fact that John kicked his butt twice the times they played each other.

Yea..thts why we lost the 1st game...mcw outplayed wall those last 2 qtrs, we all saw it...he got his team the lead and held it

Wall kicked his butt the next game but he only won 1 game vs mcw winning 3...tht matters...its like saying paul george isnt better than lebron right now...when infact he is because hes winning...if this was the playoffs mcw would be in and we wouldnt...its only a small sample....but the question is whos the best right now...winning factors into that

Saying Paul George is better than LeBron based on the fact that he was better in his first four games of this season is just a stupid conversation. Who cares? George is not even close to as good a player as LeBron is and he will never ever ever ever ever be better than LeBron. LeBron is already the GOAT player at the position and has years left.

And MCW is not as good a player as Wall is right now. Your criteria for that claim is absurd.

stevemcqueen1 · Post #65 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 4:27 am

Dark Faze wrote:Williams isn't really in the discussion right now. He's been irrelevant since the NJN trade and it's not a down year so much as just the reality of what he is now.

I think this version of Wall is better than any iteration of Rondo personally.

Rose? Wall isn't there yet.

Rose has sucked something fierce this season. And he's completely healthy, it's just him playing awful basketball. He's far worse than Wall was when he came back from injury. And he didn't play at all last season. I wouldn't be so sure that Wall isn't on his level any more. I'm not even sure what Rose's level is any more.

stevemcqueen1 · Post #66 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 4:31 am

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:
tontoz wrote:What are you talking about? Livingston couldn't score for crap even before his injury.

Livingston had a very pretty mid range pull up jumper that he shot from all over the floor before he got hurt. And he was a really effortless finisher with that long, smooth style. He could score.

Not sure what Livingston you were watching but he was horrible at scoring. His jumper was bad and he couldn't finish through contact. He was a taller, poor mans Ricky Rubio.

Did you see how Livingston torched us tonight? That was what Livingston flashed before his catastrophic knee injury. Except he was far more athletic and explosive. He had an enormous ceiling before he got hurt. Bill Simmons used to say his ceiling was a lesser scoring but better passing Penny Hardaway.

Sounds like MCW today doesn't it?

dlts20 · Post #67 » by **dlts20** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 4:37 am

Wall has nearly mastered teh pure PG angle and we have scorers/shooters all around him. He can get 10ast every single night if guys hit open shots or finish at the rim. People will say he still has to do the p&r better but I still say its more about how Witt/Flip run it. I loved that one he had tonight with Gortat though

hands11 · Post #68 » by **hands11** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 5:00 am

dlts20 wrote:Wall has nearly mastered teh pure PG angle and we have scorers/shooters all around him. He can get 10ast every single night if guys hit open shots or finish at the rim. People will say he still has to do the p&r better but I still say its more about how Witt/Flip run it. I loved that one he had tonight with Gortat though

I disagree. It has more to do with Wall maturing and learning to run it better.

He started off in the league being terrible at using picks and he couldn't shoot from outside. He was as far away from being able to run a pick and roll as I could possibly imagine.

Well now he is showing signs of shooting better. That helps a lot.

I'm sure they are working on this in practice and you can already see they are making progress. Gortat as an experienced pick n roll player has to be helping a lot.

Give it another 10-15 games. Hopefully we see vast improvement. And if he can learn to do that, he is going to take a step to another level in the type of PG he can be. Learning to run a solid pick n roll is going to give him an eduction in timing and spacing that would totally change his game and understanding on what he can do to move defenses. Think Tony Parker but taller.

At that point, he could just go off on teams. 20 assists type stuff.

I said it before but its deserves repeating. This Wizards team biggest advantage is offense. In limited games, they are already top 5 in the league. If Wall continues to develop his pick and roll game, I could see 125 plus pt games in the future.

hands11 · Post #69 » by **hands11** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 5:07 am

As for MCW.

Don't lose sight of Turner.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... van-turner

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... van-turner

He is getting off to an amazing 4th year.

Kanyewest · Post #70 » by **Kanyewest** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 6:39 am

Dark Faze wrote:Williams isn't really in the discussion right now. He's been irrelevant since the NJN trade and it's not a down year so much as just the reality of what he is now.

I think this version of Wall is better than any iteration of Rondo personally.

Rose? Wall isn't there yet.

You may be right. From the game last night, it looks like Williams has lost a lot of his mojo since Utah.

Brenice · Post #71 » by **Brenice** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 2:03 pm

Wall will remain the best all around pg in the east. Rose will regain his position as the best scoring pg once he gets the rust off.

dobrojim · Post #72 » by **dobrojim** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 2:05 pm

for the moment, yes. Wall right now is the best PG in the east.

tontoz · Post #73 » by **tontoz** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 3:24 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:Did you see how Livingston torched us tonight? That was what Livingston flashed before his catastrophic knee injury. Except he was far more athletic and explosive. He had an enormous ceiling before he got hurt. Bill Simmons used to say his ceiling was a lesser scoring but better passing Penny Hardaway.

Sounds like MCW today doesn't it?

If MCW averages only 9 ppg on the season then he will be comparable to Livingston. All those pre-draft predictions about Livingston were flushed down the toilet once he actually played NBA games.

In case you forgot Livingston played for us last year, averaging 3.7 ppg shooting 36.4%.

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #74 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 3:36 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
Did you see how Livingston torched us tonight? That was what Livingston flashed before his catastrophic knee injury. Except he was far more athletic and explosive. He had an enormous ceiling before he got hurt. Bill Simmons used to say his ceiling was a lesser scoring but better passing Penny Hardaway.

Sounds like MCW today doesn't it?

Any player can flash some potential. Livingston was a 10 PER 46% TS player before his injury. Never had legit star potential. And no he wasn't a better passer than Penny. That's hyperbole. Livingston was an intriguing prospect before the draft that didn't pan out in the pros.

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #75 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 3:40 pm

hands11 wrote:As for MCW.

Don't lose sight of Turner.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... van-turner

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... van-turner

He is getting off to an amazing 4th year.

Turner has always been talented, his main problem was he needed the ball in his hand and he has zero range on his jumper. He still has zero range on his jumper but now with Jrue gone he is able to control the pace of the game. Turner can create offense and his confidence is rising each game. Now he just has to work on that ugly jumper.

nuposse04 · Post #76 » by **nuposse04** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 5:22 pm

^WTF, evan turner nearly shot 37% from 3 pt land last season. He hit 159 of em. He's down this year but he's doing what he does best, mid range and slashing. I'm happy for him.

There are truly some beasts from that draft class now (at least if these early season returns are any indication).

Wall
George
Cousins
Turner
Monroe
Bledsoe
Hayward

Are all playing like they got paid, or should have gotten paid. The last 3 mentioned will get top dollar if they keep their production up. I am most surprised at Bledsoe. He's playing like a monster and winning games.

pancakes3 · Post #77 » by **pancakes3** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 7:15 pm

nuposse04 wrote:There are truly some beasts from that draft class now (at least if these early season returns are any indication).

Wall
George
Cousins
Turner
Monroe
Bledsoe
Hayward

Oh the list goes deeper than that. Derrick Favors and Larry Sanders both got inked to 8 figure deals. Xavier Henry, Vasquez, and Lance Stephenson are also poised to get inked to solid contracts as well. That'll be a total of 12 above average starters from a single draft class. Pretty solid.

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #78 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 9:03 pm

nuposse04 wrote:^WTF, evan turner nearly shot 37% from 3 pt land last season. He hit 159 of em. He's down this year but he's doing what he does best, mid range and slashing. I'm happy for him.

There are truly some beasts from that draft class now (at least if these early season returns are any indication).

Wall
George
Cousins
Turner
Monroe
Bledsoe
Hayward

Are all playing like they got paid, or should have gotten paid. The last 3 mentioned will get top dollar if they keep their production up. I am most surprised at Bledsoe. He's playing like a monster and winning games.

He made a whopping 0.7 3 pointers last season and had a 47.8 TS %. And most of those 3 pointers were open looks from defenses that treated him like a self check. he year before that he shot 22.4% from 3 point range. Turner's jumper still isn't great but it's inching towards average. This season he is shooting 11.1% from 3 point range (small sample size).

Yeah that draft class is looking better and better each day. With guys like Wall, George, and Cousins leading the way. I think all three will be all-stars this year. Turner, Monroe, Bledsoe, and Hayward are having good seasons also.

nuposse04 · Post #79 » by **nuposse04** » Sat Nov 9, 2013 11:51 pm

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:
nuposse04 wrote:^WTF, evan turner nearly shot 37% from 3 pt land last season. He hit 159 of em. He's down this year but he's doing what he does best, mid range and slashing. I'm happy for him.

There are truly some beasts from that draft class now (at least if these early season returns are any indication).

Wall
George
Cousins
Turner
Monroe
Bledsoe
Hayward

Are all playing like they got paid, or should have gotten paid. The last 3 mentioned will get top dollar if they keep their production up. I am most surprised at Bledsoe. He's playing like a monster and winning games.

He made a whopping 0.7 3 pointers last season and had a 47.8 TS %. And most of those 3 pointers were open looks from defenses that treated him like a self check. he year before that he shot 22.4% from 3 point range. Turner's jumper still isn't great but it's inching towards average. This season he is shooting 11.1% from 3 point range (small sample size).

Yeah that draft class is looking better and better each day. With guys like Wall, George, and Cousins leading the way. I think all three will be all-stars this year. Turner, Monroe, Bledsoe, and Hayward are having good seasons also.

Ur right he ATTEMPTED 159 3's last season. Still shot it at a solid clip IMO. His TS% this season has been so far like 61 %. I don't think that is sustainable for him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he finished around 54-56%. The thing is, I think he is still relatively "young" so it wouldn't surprised me if worked on his game and extended his range. There aren't many play-making SF's that can produce efficiently like he has so far, Turner still might have some value in this league. Unless he kept up his current averages I can't see him justifying being a number 2 overall selection...but he is looking like an NBA starter to me. So I give him props for that.

The Consiglieri · Post #80 » by **The Consiglieri** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:45 am

Little write up from roto:

"He woke up Friday morning with back spasms, but it didn't look to be an issue during the game. Wall has become a more well-rounded point guard and he trailed just Chris Paul in assist opportunities and passes per game before tonight. After tonight, Wall is up to 9.8 assists per game to go with his 19.6 points per game. He's becoming one of the best point guards in the league." Nov 9 - 12:06 AM