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GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM)

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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#321 » by payitforward » Sat Nov 9, 2013 7:40 pm

jivelikenice wrote:Al's rebounding has been poor, but his offense sparked us getting back into the game yesterday when we were down big early.

Booker? I just don't see what you guys do. Dude stinks and is an awkward fit on offense because of his lack of size and lack of shooting. He's just there taking space in the middle of the floor. That would be ok if he added anything defensively which he unfortunately doesn't.

Right -- all Booker is doing this season is shooting 62.5%, grabbing almost 11 boards per 40 minutes, and laying down the highest assist rate and steal rate of any big on our roster. Obviously, that stuff is worthless -- we don't need that! That's just "taking space."

Oh, and he's got the 2d highest rate of offensive rebounds of any 20+ minute 4 in the league, right behind Faried -- see what jivelikenice means about "just there taking space"?

He hasn't played the last couple of games because of his finger. Duh.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#322 » by AFM » Sat Nov 9, 2013 7:47 pm

Gotta love Harrington. Dude shoots the 3 ball nicely.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#323 » by jivelikenice » Sat Nov 9, 2013 7:59 pm

He leaves our defense susceptible to transition buckets because of how much he overpursues offensive rebounds. You can't be that wreckless.

Thanks for pointing out his steals. I'll point out the a$$kicking that Thad Young and Monroe gave him. I won't even blame the opener on him though because after Monroe handed it to him in the preseason, there was no reason for him to be on the floor to start the season.

I'm sorry if I offended you by criticizing Booker. He's obviously statistically dominant as evidenced by your 3 game sample size (where we were 0-3). He's a situational energy player, that's all.....
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#324 » by jivelikenice » Sat Nov 9, 2013 8:01 pm

payitforward wrote:
He hasn't played the last couple of games because of his finger. Duh.


So he's in uniform and warming up but not playing because of the finger. You're sure about this? You don't think there's any chance that he was dropped out of the rotation now that Nene is back and Gortat is starting?

But thanks for the "Duh"...Haven't heard one of those in a while. :lol:
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#325 » by dckingsfan » Sat Nov 9, 2013 8:45 pm

I think that both Booker and Harrington have a place on the team. Harrington is much more a S4 and plays pretty nicely next to Gortat - especially when he is hitting the 3 - it really spaces the floor.

Booker is a fine rebounder and defender - the problem he has in the rotation is who to play him with. It doesn't work well with him playing with Seraphin. I would argue he isn't a good fit next to Gortat. Maybe with Nene.

But then I would almost rather have Ariza slide over to the S4.

But that is a huey anyway, Witt seems to be setting his rotation and my guess is Booker is on the outside looking in... but you never know with Witt and it is a long season.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#326 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 9, 2013 8:49 pm

tontoz wrote:I sure hope Harrington hasn't jumped over Booker in the rotation. So far this season Al has 7 rebounds in 88 minutes of play.

Meh, that wouldn't bother me so much. The second unit is in dire need of offense. Harrington is better at it than Booker. I at least understand why Wittman is going with Harrington.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#327 » by tontoz » Sat Nov 9, 2013 9:45 pm

nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:I sure hope Harrington hasn't jumped over Booker in the rotation. So far this season Al has 7 rebounds in 88 minutes of play.

Meh, that wouldn't bother me so much. The second unit is in dire need of offense. Harrington is better at it than Booker. I at least understand why Wittman is going with Harrington.



Al is fools gold. His occassional big scoring game makes him look better than he is. He has never had a TS% of 55% in his whole career. He is at 48.5% after 5 games. He can't finish inside at all because he has no hops so he has to rely on 3 point shooting and bail out calls from the refs.

Once Bookers finger gets better he should be playing ahead of Al.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#328 » by payitforward » Sat Nov 9, 2013 10:14 pm

AFM wrote:Gotta love Harrington. Dude shoots the 3 ball nicely.

Oh absolutely; I'm sure he's shooting 35% on a miniscule sample -- that right there is a reason to play a guy at the 4 who is averaging 3 rebounds every 40 minutes!

Before going 4-6 from 3pt range last night, he was 3-11 the first 4 games.

He keeps Vesely and, to some degree, Seraphin on the bench, and that's his biggest value.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#329 » by queridiculo » Sat Nov 9, 2013 10:46 pm

tontoz wrote:

I sure hope Harrington hasn't jumped over Booker in the rotation. So far this season Al has 7 rebounds in 88 minutes of play.


With Bookers defense being as awful as it is, I'll take Harrington's scoring over Trevor's defense.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#330 » by AFM » Sat Nov 9, 2013 10:51 pm

payitforward wrote:
AFM wrote:Gotta love Harrington. Dude shoots the 3 ball nicely.

Oh absolutely; I'm sure he's shooting 35% on a miniscule sample -- that right there is a reason to play a guy at the 4 who is averaging 3 rebounds every 40 minutes!

Before going 4-6 from 3pt range last night, he was 3-11 the first 4 games.

He keeps Vesely and, to some degree, Seraphin on the bench, and that's his biggest value.

We didn't sign him thinking we got a rebounder. Did you?
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#331 » by dckingsfan » Sat Nov 9, 2013 11:08 pm

What is interesting to me is that Harrington until recently has been a pretty good defensive rebounder (at least historically). In the last couple of years his DRB% has been close to 20 - why is he suddenly at 10 this year?

If he was rebounding at those rates, he would be the second best on the team to Gortat.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#332 » by Nivek » Sat Nov 9, 2013 11:17 pm

queridiculo wrote:
tontoz wrote:

I sure hope Harrington hasn't jumped over Booker in the rotation. So far this season Al has 7 rebounds in 88 minutes of play.


With Bookers defense being as awful as it is, I'll take Harrington's scoring over Trevor's defense.


So far this season, that'd be foolish. Here's a little comparison:

Pts per 36 Minutes

- Harrington -- 14.7
- Booker -- 14.1

True Shooting Attempts per 36 Minutes (FGA +.44 x FTA)

- Harrington -- 15.1
- Booker -- 8.3

In other words, to score an additional 0.6 points per 36 minutes, Harrington is taking 6.8 more shots per 36 minutes.

Harrington's offensive efficiency is worse than his career norms, but the overall pattern -- Booker being significantly more efficient on offense -- persists.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#333 » by nuposse04 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:05 am

^BR has Booker's per 36 numbers at 10.1...where is 14.1 coming from? :/
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#334 » by Nivek » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:09 am

nuposse04 wrote:^BR has Booker's per 36 numbers at 10.1...where is 14.1 coming from? :/


Good lord, I have no idea. :(

Just misread something in my increasing decrepitude, I guess.

That said, based even on the CORRECT numbers, you'd still want Booker over Harrington for offense.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#335 » by nuposse04 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:19 am

Nivek wrote:
nuposse04 wrote:^BR has Booker's per 36 numbers at 10.1...where is 14.1 coming from? :/


Good lord, I have no idea. :(

Just misread something in my increasing decrepitude, I guess.

That said, based even on the CORRECT numbers, you'd still want Booker over Harrington for offense.


Oh I agree, I'll take efficiency over chuking any day, plus Booker is still a man on the boards. I do give Harrington props on his 3 pt shooting. I don't know how long it'll last but it is helping. He just needs to NOT channel his inner Jordan Crawford and go HAM with all the ISO when the shot isn't there. Our 2nd unit is composed of a lot of guys who simply can't afford to play hero ball, yet they do it anyways. :lol:
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#336 » by tontoz » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:19 am

queridiculo wrote:
tontoz wrote:

I sure hope Harrington hasn't jumped over Booker in the rotation. So far this season Al has 7 rebounds in 88 minutes of play.


With Bookers defense being as awful as it is, I'll take Harrington's scoring over Trevor's defense.



Booker's defense has been disappointing but at least he tries. When it comes to interior D, Harrington doesn't bother.

I always felt he was miscast as a 4. He is better on both ends at the 3. He can't finish inside against bigs and certainly can't defend them, but is at least adequate on D at the 3. When he was with the Hawks i used to say that they should put Smith at the 4 and Al at the 3 but they never did.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#337 » by dobrojim » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:54 am

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Hey Hands, just don't see that happening - unless it is in back-to-backs. I don't think you will see Vesely or Rice play much this season - unless the injury bug hits. I think Witt has his rotation now...


I hope he doesn't have his rotation set. The second unit doesn't rebound well. I think Rice Jr. and Vesely both would add some athleticism to the bench.

dckingsfan, I think you're right that Witt has his rotations set but I hope they change to include more players off the bench.

It's pretty abrupt that Trevor Booker started the first three games and has been DNP-CD the last two. :o

Might have something to do with the fact that Nene wasn't available in games 2 and 3 but has been available in games 4 and 5.


And in game one Gortat did not start having not played a single minute
with the Wizards in a real or pre-season game. Book may not be the reason
we were 0-3, but he also shouldn't start complaining about not playing when
we won both games he didn't play.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#338 » by dobrojim » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:59 am

dckingsfan wrote:I think that both Booker and Harrington have a place on the team. Harrington is much more a S4 and plays pretty nicely next to Gortat - especially when he is hitting the 3 - it really spaces the floor.

Booker is a fine rebounder and defender - the problem he has in the rotation is who to play him with. It doesn't work well with him playing with Seraphin. I would argue he isn't a good fit next to Gortat. Maybe with Nene.

But then I would almost rather have Ariza slide over to the S4.

But that is a huey anyway, Witt seems to be setting his rotation and my guess is Booker is on the outside looking in... but you never know with Witt and it is a long season.


Witt has previously talked about how he will put players in and out of
the rotation (obviously he was talking not about starters who play every
game which Booker isn't, he's an emergency starter) in sets of 5-8
games at a stretch. Give them some run over not just 1-2 games and
see what they can do. Book did ok and not so OK as evidenced by
the success of DET and PHL's matchups on Book. It's clear that
Nene should play ahead of him.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#339 » by DCZards » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:14 am

dobrojim wrote:
And in game one Gortat did not start having not played a single minute
with the Wizards in a real or pre-season game. Book may not be the reason
we were 0-3, but he also shouldn't start complaining about not playing when
we won both games he didn't play.


Has Book complained about not playing? Hadn't heard or read that.
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Re: GT: Brooklyn Nets @ Washington Wizards 11/8/13 (7PM) 

Post#340 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:49 am

Late to chime in, but wow what a great game! One of the best games I can remember seeing for quite a while, almost had a playoff feel with the intensity and physicality. Glad they could pull it out! Some general unorganized thoughts...

That dunk by Beal was sick! Not sure if I realized he had that in him. They showed a shot of Kidd and Frank talking right after and they had a look seemed to be saying something along those lines to each other like man he's a good player.

Wall was played with determination on the defensive end and I loved to see that!

That was the best game Nene has played this year, and possibly since he's been a Wizard. I was beginning to write him off as the weak link in our starting 5, but now maybe not. Seeing him take it to KG was a major confidence boost to the team's mindset IMO and had a domino effect on the game.

Watching Livingston was frustrating. He looked good out there. I've been comparing Maynor to Price, completely forgetting we had Livingston last season and just let him go for some unknowable reason. We had a 2nd chance at him after letting him go before, and somehow did it again! Makes no sense. I'd rather of kept him as our backup instead of going out and signing Maynor.

The combo of Nene and Gortat inside is looking good, and should only get better as they get accustomed to each other. Wall and Beal are gelling and finding their games as well. That was a good win vs a good team, very encouraging. Definitely feel a lot better about this team than a week ago!

On a side note, noticed Newman and Cassell have both been dressing sharper lately on the sidelines.
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