Is Nene the next trouble in the locker room?

[nate33]

I think Beal is definitely taking too many long, contested 2 point jumpers. I would much rather see him take it to the basket or drive/dish than taking a long 2 with a hand in his face.

It sounds like he took more than his fair share of long 2's in the San Antonio game (I didn't see it), but I disagree with this assertion based on what I've seen over the rest of the season. According to basketball reference, 33% of Beal's shot attempts are from 3-point range.

It's also notable that San Antonio, being a very smart team, is focused on chasing players off the 3-point line and ceding the long 2.

According to NBA.com's shot chart he is still taking more long 2s than 3s. When he gets run off the 3 point line he tends to settle for long 2s too quickly. He has 53 long 2s compared to 30 shots at the rim.

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.ht ... rID=203078

Comparing the numbers to last year, it looks like his 3pt attempts are roughly the same as a percentage of his total attempts. He is definitely taking more long 2's than he is shots at the rim. But also bear in mind that he is taking more shots in general. He is absorbing more of the offensive load. It's much harder to generate marginal shot attempts at the rim or behind the arc. It's understandable that the increased offensive load is going to come from mid range. If you ignore the first two games, his TS% is basically the same as it was from last season (from January onward). So he has radically improved his usage rate with no loss in efficiency.

(Caveat: It may not be fair to disregard his first 2 games.)

[tontoz]

Comparing the numbers to last year, it looks like his 3pt attempts are roughly the same as a percentage of his total attempts. He is definitely taking more long 2's than he is shots at the rim. But also bear in mind that he is taking more shots in general. He is absorbing more of the offensive load. It's much harder to generate marginal shot attempts at the rim or behind the arc. It's understandable that the increased offensive load is going to come from mid range. If you ignore the first two games, his TS% is basically the same as it was from last season (from January onward). So he has radically improved his usage rate with no loss in efficiency.

(Caveat: It may not be fair to disregard his first 2 games.)

Comparing him to last year doesn't make sense given how lousy he was his first 2 months in the NBA.

Beal is shooting 39% from 2 point range and is getting to the ft line only 3 times in 39 minutes per game. That is just lame. His high volume/high% shooting from 3 masks his poor efficiency on 2s.

[Ruzious]

I think Beal is definitely taking too many long, contested 2 point jumpers. I would much rather see him take it to the basket or drive/dish than taking a long 2 with a hand in his face.

Wall is the bigger culprit though. I can't stand seeing him pullup for a long 2 in transition. I have no problem with him taking catch and shot 3s but all those long 2s, especially early in the clock, need to stop.

Agreed on both. I think it's obvious watching the games and the stats. If Beal and Wall simply made those adjustments, the offense would much more efficient.

And I think it goes to the mindset. Think - "what's better for the offense" - not "I can make that shot". Rushing long 2's is NOT GOOD for the offense even if I think I can make the shot. It doesn't matter that you think you can make the shot. It's not a good shot. Coaches have to get that through their heads so that it shows in their performance. Obviously that hasn't happened. Whether that's the coaches' faults in failing to communicate or the players being thickheaded, I don't know.

[nate33]

Fair enough tontoz. My point was that Beal is still taking a relatively high percentage of his shots from 3-point range, which is a good thing. I see now that you aren't really refuting that. You are focusing on his distribution of shots in the 2P range. Last year, he shot more of them at the rim, this year, there are a lot more long 2's. I agree that that is a problem that needs to be addressed.

My one caveat is that, given his heavier usage rate in general, I don't think it'll be possible for him to maintain the same distribution of shot attempts at the rim. It's real hard to get to the rim and marginal shots are more likely to come from midrange.

He definitely needs to get to the line though. I think one of his problems is that when he gets to the rim, he is too focused on dunking on people. That's not so wise when he's going up against the likes of Josh Smith and Serge Ibaka. He needs to learn the Gilbert Arenas/James Harden art of throwing his body into the shot blocker to draw the foul.

[queridiculo]

I really don't take anything Nene says serious anymore.

His underperforming ass is just as culpable as the other players on this team. 2 rebounds in 25 minutes? Get the **** out of here, he's really embarrassing himself attempting by singling out other players on this team.

The Nene trade is just another in a series of shortsighted decisions by our GM in charge.

[tontoz]

Fair enough tontoz. My point was that Beal is still taking a relatively high percentage of his shots from 3-point range, which is a good thing. I see now that you aren't really refuting that. You are focusing on his distribution of shots in the 2P range. Last year, he shot more of them at the rim, this year, there are a lot more long 2's. I agree that that is a problem that needs to be addressed.

My one caveat is that, given his heavier usage rate in general, I don't think it'll be possible for him to maintain the same distribution of shot attempts at the rim. It's real hard to get to the rim and marginal shots are more likely to come from midrange.

He definitely needs to get to the line though. I think one of his problems is that when he gets to the rim, he is too focused on dunking on people. That's not so wise when he's going up against the likes of Josh Smith and Serge Ibaka. He needs to learn the Gilbert Arenas/James Harden art of throwing his body into the shot blocker to draw the foul.

Beal will take a 3 whenever he can. He moves well without the ball to get good looks from 3. He is never going to pass up a good look from 3 to take a long 2.

But when he gets run off the 3 point line there is a problem. Harden shot 48% on 2s last season and got to the foul line 10 times per game. Beal has a loooong way to go to get there.

I agree he tries to dunk on the wrong guys. There is a big difference between dunking on Pierce and dunking on a shotblocker.

[dobrojim]

Nene really undercut his point when he said the Wizards are more talented than the Spurs. That's just straight crazy talk.

He was probably and wrongly confusing/conflating physical talent with effective performance
on the court and discounting the critical value of BBIQ. In saying this I don't mean
to completely dismiss the value of physical skills. You need some minimum threshold
but smarts can take you a long ways without necessarily having elite physical gifts.

I agree with Bobby D about Nene's performance so far but I think he's generally trying
to do what ought to be the right things. He's failing to execute them often enough.

[dobrojim]

Wall played 10x harder than anyone else on the team the past 2 games. Once he starts hitting his shots, and I think he will, it won't be an issue. 8 games in, a couple of which he hasn't even played, and Nene is talking about the young guys. Unbelievable.

The tank is going perfectly.

in contrast to what dlts thinks, I'd say Wall needs to try smarter, not harder.
Reports last year had been that Wall's BBIQ was off the chart...him calling out
the other team's plays before the asst coaches etc...maybe he's been shooting so
well in prax that he thought all those mid range J's were the smart play for him.

All that said, I do expect Wall to improve. On the year, it's not like he's been
horrible. Mostly his shooting just needs to bump up a notch or 2.

[dobrojim]

Nene doesn't want to be on the wizards he said it last yr...

He shouldve been traded for some younger bigs talented or not...he's our problem...how do expect to have an effective pg when theres no effective post option...every elite guard in the league has a post option...

Seraphin is our best post player but somehow nene gets tht role and title...

It sickens me we traded away our best player we had in yrs and a draft pick...for a short term solution to nenes problem (not wanting to play center) maybe nene should be worried more about stats and he wouldn't get out played by vesely

Wow. Who knew? Glad you pointed that out. Such a travesty that KSera is not starting.

[deneem4]

Nene doesn't want to be on the wizards he said it last yr...

He shouldve been traded for some younger bigs talented or not...he's our problem...how do expect to have an effective pg when theres no effective post option...every elite guard in the league has a post option...

Seraphin is our best post player but somehow nene gets tht role and title...

It sickens me we traded away our best player we had in yrs and a draft pick...for a short term solution to nenes problem (not wanting to play center) maybe nene should be worried more about stats and he wouldn't get out played by vesely

Wow. Who knew? Glad you pointed that out. Such a travesty that KSera is not starting.

Seraphin at 4 with gortat at 5 would yield better results, seraphin was incredible post moves but he gets double team alot and the double team is effective because he plays with the likes of maynor and booker and temple...
I dont think seraphin would be doubled as much playin nxt to gortat and 1on1 seraphin is very good...hes also been a better defender than nene this season...

Funny how u criticize seraphin when nene playin worst than him

[dobrojim]

without actually looking at the stats, I'd be quite surprised if they upheld your
point that Sera is playing better than Nene.

[JonathanJoseph]

Nene is absolutely right. I hate watching John Wall play too so it's no surprise that the guys who actually have to play with him would get frustrated.

Count how many times Wall brings the ball up the court and takes a long 2 FGA before anyone else on offense gets a touch. That's bad basketball and Wall does it frequently. You can be darn sure you will never ever ever see Tony Parker do that. That's how Nene ends up with only a few FGA and a textbook reason for a post player to get frustrated.

Wall is the problem, and given his contract, will be for a long time to come.

[miller31time]

Well, Nene's 4 points, 2 rebounds, 3 fouls and 1 turnover sure do jive with the "I don't care about numbers" line.

Maybe if Nene cared a little more about numbers, he wouldn't be a guy that is universally characterized as "that really talented player who never seemed to utilize his abilities and put it all together".

Looking at this season as a whole, one of the last things I'd criticize our team for is being selfish or looking for numbers. Our downfall has been defense and a terrible bench, plain and simple.

[DaRealHibachi]

Nene is absolutely right. I hate watching John Wall play too so it's no surprise that the guys who actually have to play with him would get frustrated.

Count how many times Wall brings the ball up the court and takes a long 2 FGA before anyone else on offense gets a touch. That's bad basketball and Wall does it frequently. You can be darn sure you will never ever ever see Tony Parker do that. That's how Nene ends up with only a few FGA and a textbook reason for a post player to get frustrated.

Wall is the problem, and given his contract, will be for a long time to come.

Not this sh*t again...

[Nivek]

Wait, someone's trying to argue Seraphin is playing better than Nene?

Code: Select all

PER36   Nene    Seraphin
GMS     6       8
MPG     29.7    8.9
FGA     9.5     14.7
eFG%    .553    .517
Ortg    112     91
REB     6.5     6.6
AST     3.0     1.0
STL     1.2     0.5
BLK     1.0     1.5
TOV     2.0     3.5
PTS     15.0    15.7


Nene's off to a **** start for him, and it's still way better than Seraphin.

Seraphin is taking 5.2 additional FGA per 36 minutes to score an additional 0.7 points per 36. He's also committing almost twice as many turnovers per 36.

Now, Nene ought to be humiliated that his rebounding is as bad as Seraphin's. But even rebounding as embarrassingly awful as Seraphin, Nene is still the better, more useful, more productive player.

Unless we're talking about some sport/game/contest other than basketball. Maybe Seraphin is a great post performer in tether ball or something.

[go'stags]

Nene was awful last night whenever he did get the ball.

After the slow start, with Wall on the court the Wiz cut the lead to 10. Wall sits, the bench players (and Nene) go down by 19. Wall comes back in and plays like a terror on both sides of the court, Wiz cut it to 10. Start of the second half Wiz get it down to 3 I believe with Wall playing great. Then the starters get tired from playing catch up, Wall sees that the others aren't playing as hard, and he starts taking more shots.

Is that ultimately on Wall? Of course. But that is something that he will learn better in time, that you can't stop playing the right way.

Before the 5 minute mark in the 3rd (or thereabouts), Wall was playing great, Nene was trash. Wall was playing harder than anyone on the court. That time frame was when Wall started doing too much.

Nene is easily my least favorite Wizard.

[DCZards]

Nene is absolutely right. I hate watching John Wall play too so it's no surprise that the guys who actually have to play with him would get frustrated.

Count how many times Wall brings the ball up the court and takes a long 2 FGA before anyone else on offense gets a touch. That's bad basketball and Wall does it frequently. You can be darn sure you will never ever ever see Tony Parker do that. That's how Nene ends up with only a few FGA and a textbook reason for a post player to get frustrated.

Wall is the problem, and given his contract, will be for a long time to come.

You nailed it. The ball absolutely has to MOVE more in the halfcourt and it's Wall's job to make that happen. But I see it as a problem with a solution--better coaching. And I definitely don't consider Wall or his contract to be a long-term problem. The kid has the potential to be an absolute stud at PG. He just has to play smarter---and keep working on that jumper.

I was a surprised by how candid and frank Nene was. He stopped just short of calling names. It was a little like Garcon has been doing with the Skins this season. Some might call it good, old-fashioned leadership.

[Nivek]

Posted this in another thread, but it's relevant here too...

The hammering of Wall after last night's game seems odd to me. The Wizards struggled whenever he was on the bench. They were -2 with him on the floor in a game they lost by 13.

For the season, the Wizards have net POSITIVE efficiency differential (ortg - drtg) with Wall on the floor. When he's on the bench, they have a MASSIVE efficiency differential.

Code: Select all

STAT    w/Wall  wo/Wall
Ortg    107     87
Drtg    106     113
PytW    44      2


Wall isn't playing at an elite level, but he's FAR from The Problem this year. The team is decent when he's on the floor; they're a toxic dumpster fire when he's on the bench.

[Hypnotizer]

Nene was awful last night whenever he did get the ball.

After the slow start, with Wall on the court the Wiz cut the lead to 10. Wall sits, the bench players (and Nene) go down by 19. Wall comes back in and plays like a terror on both sides of the court, Wiz cut it to 10. Start of the second half Wiz get it down to 3 I believe with Wall playing great. Then the starters get tired from playing catch up, Wall sees that the others aren't playing as hard, and he starts taking more shots.

Is that ultimately on Wall? Of course. But that is something that he will learn better in time, that you can't stop playing the right way.

Before the 5 minute mark in the 3rd (or thereabouts), Wall was playing great, Nene was trash. Wall was playing harder than anyone on the court. That time frame was when Wall started doing too much.

Nene is easily my least favorite Wizard.

What are you talking about? Wall was only 5-19 yesterday. Watch the game:
http://replay.nbaliveonline.tv/washingt ... r-13-2013/
or at least take a look at box score info before posting:
http://www.nba.com/games/20131113/WASSA ... tml?ls=slt

[Ruzious]

I really don't take anything Nene says serious anymore.

His underperforming ass is just as culpable as the other players on this team. 2 rebounds in 25 minutes? Get the **** out of here, he's really embarrassing himself attempting by singling out other players on this team.

The Nene trade is just another in a series of shortsighted decisions by our GM in charge.

So if he's not playing well, his points are invalid?