Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing

[Zonkerbl]

... or give up the rights for La Bomba for a future murderer.

ROFL!

[hands11]

I can't think of any #1 pick that has looked so bad 9-10 games into his career. It's hard to think of many top draft picks in general that have looked as bad at the same point. Wonder how Vesely compared at a comparable point in his rookie year?

As I posted before.

KWAME

[montestewart]

I can't think of any #1 pick that has looked so bad 9-10 games into his career. It's hard to think of many top draft picks in general that have looked as bad at the same point. Wonder how Vesely compared at a comparable point in his rookie year?

As I posted before.

KWAME

I didn't overlook him. Bennett looks worse.

[mhd]

Kwame was always a really good man defender. He was never out of shape either.

[Hypnotizer]

I wonder if Grant Hill would be good GM?

[Upper Decker]

I wonder if Grant Hill would be good GM?

Going forward I hope / pray / wish the Wizards just stay away from former pro ball players as the GM's. My reasoning is three fold:

1) They've never really had to negotiate anything in their lives. When they played, their agents negotiated their contracts. Now they're responsible for negotiating massive contracts with expert negotiators. If I'm an agent I'm looking at guys like Joe Dumars and EG and just hoping they call me. Dumars and EG have given out the worst contracts in over the last 10 years. Ben Gordan, Charlie V, Arenas, and seemingly Wall if he keeps this up.

2) Former players are incapable of accurately valuing current players. I just think about ESPN's countdown show, or whatever it's called. Last year the biggest continual rift was Jalen & Magic vs. Simmons on whether Rudy Gay's good or not. Jalen & Magic were convinced Gay was/is a very good player. "Capable of going toe-to-toe with Lebron on some nights." Simmons countered with not so complex stats that Rudy Gay is just a low efficiency chucker. How dense can former players be in evaluating current players? MJ is another good example, although a bit extreme.

3) Former players empathize with current players so they might be less willing to make tough business decisions. This opinion may be unsubstantiated, however, my feel is that the mentality for former players is to playcate to current players because they've once been there and know how bad it sucks to get cut, traded, low-balled, strung-out, benched, mis-managed by a coach, or whatever else happens behind closed doors. I think this is a large reason why Arenas and Blatche were so mis-managed by EG.

[verbal8]

I wonder if Grant Hill would be good GM?

Going forward I hope / pray / wish the Wizards just stay away from former pro ball players as the GM's.

I think your reasoning of being skeptical of ex-player GMs is pretty good in general. I think that Grant Hill would be worth a look. Unlike a lot of players he has experience serving a variety of roles on a team. He has been a star player and he has been a role player. I think his injuries would make him understand the importance of a good medical staff and rehab plan.

Hiring him as GM right off the bat might not be the best move, but I would definitely make a place from him in the organization if he was interested. It really could help with the basketball credibility if the GM was a stat-nerd.

[closg00]

Larry Bird turned the Pacers around.

[Ruzious]

I wonder if Grant Hill would be good GM?

I kinda like the idea of Grant Hill as a coach here - rather than as a GM. He'd certainly have the respect of the players, seems to have a great temperament, he's smart and articulate, and he knows the game. I don't have any idea of his ability to evaluate talent or make deals.

[nate33]

Larry Bird turned the Pacers around.

True. But it's important to note that Bird was a head coach before becoming a GM. I think that experience gave him perspective and helped distance him from being overly sympathetic to the players' side of things.

Jerry West was another successful former-player GM.

[Nivek]

Saying "no former players" is the same thinking that had the Wizards trading for Okafor and Ariza (and giving away 2nd round picks) instead of seeking to acquire talented young players with the possibility of a long-term future with the team. Excluding groups of people because of their membership in some group deemed "undesirable" is prejudice, and it leads to bad decisions. Former players should be treated the same way as anyone else trying to become a GM or a coach -- evaluated on their own merits.

Shane Battier, for example, will probably make a first-rate team executive someday -- he's smart, thoughtful, perceptive, has a good sense of humor, and he's systematic and organized in his approach to the game. Many former players would make bad executives, but truth is that many PEOPLE would make bad executives. It's not an easy job (though I don't think it's as difficult as Grunfeld has made it look).

[Ruzious]

Totally agree on Battier. I think he would make an excellent NBA Commissioner some day - if he wants it.

It's unfortunate that the 2 most impressive ex or soon to be ex NBA players I can think of are from Duke.

[WizarDynasty]

Definitely need a motion camera STAT's Wizard at the GM spot to define this organization.

[JonathanJoseph]

To update the Gortat trade results:

Gortat is a good player who will likely ensure the Wizards win just enough games to lose their 1st round draft pick in next year's "dream draft".

The Wizards will resign Gortat to max out the salary cap (assuming Beal will be signed to a max in a few years)

The Wizards may have the worst backcourt bench in recent NBA history yet recently gave up the rights to Shannon Brown and Kendall Marshall.

Hard to see how this trade isn't an abject disaster.

[closg00]

Thanks for giving us the NBA's worst bench Grunfeld.

[payitforward]

I can't think of any #1 pick that has looked so bad 9-10 games into his career. It's hard to think of many top draft picks in general that have looked as bad at the same point. Wonder how Vesely compared at a comparable point in his rookie year?

As I posted before.

KWAME

I didn't overlook him. Bennett looks worse.

I think that with work and the right coaching Bennett can be just as good as Kwame.

[payitforward]

I wonder if Grant Hill would be good GM?

Going forward I hope / pray / wish the Wizards just stay away from former pro ball players as the GM's. My reasoning is three fold:

1) They've never really had to negotiate anything in their lives. When they played, their agents negotiated their contracts. Now they're responsible for negotiating massive contracts with expert negotiators. If I'm an agent I'm looking at guys like Joe Dumars and EG and just hoping they call me. Dumars and EG have given out the worst contracts in over the last 10 years. Ben Gordan, Charlie V, Arenas, and seemingly Wall if he keeps this up.

2) Former players are incapable of accurately valuing current players. I just think about ESPN's countdown show, or whatever it's called. Last year the biggest continual rift was Jalen & Magic vs. Simmons on whether Rudy Gay's good or not. Jalen & Magic were convinced Gay was/is a very good player. "Capable of going toe-to-toe with Lebron on some nights." Simmons countered with not so complex stats that Rudy Gay is just a low efficiency chucker. How dense can former players be in evaluating current players? MJ is another good example, although a bit extreme.

3) Former players empathize with current players so they might be less willing to make tough business decisions. This opinion may be unsubstantiated, however, my feel is that the mentality for former players is to playcate to current players because they've once been there and know how bad it sucks to get cut, traded, low-balled, strung-out, benched, mis-managed by a coach, or whatever else happens behind closed doors. I think this is a large reason why Arenas and Blatche were so mis-managed by EG.

What he said.

For a long time, it was routine for all or almost all GMs to be ex-players -- the notion being that they could recognize talent. Of course, when all the GMs were ex-players it wasn't obvious how bad they were at it: they only competed with one another!

Once you had guys like Morey and Presti and Ujiri and the SA GM in place, it became obvious that the ex-player GMs had no special ability at their jobs.

One more point you missed, btw: ex-players tend to over-value veterans. They assume that guys' productivity remains more or less the same as they age. So they put together teams like the current Nets. As if names would win games.

[payitforward]

Larry Bird turned the Pacers around.

True. But it's important to note that Bird was a head coach before becoming a GM. I think that experience gave him perspective and helped distance him from being overly sympathetic to the players' side of things.

Jerry West was another successful former-player GM.

Good points -- tho West was a GM in the era when nearly all of them were ex-players, and Bird is an exception proving a rule I think.

[payitforward]

Saying "no former players" is the same thinking that had the Wizards trading for Okafor and Ariza (and giving away 2nd round picks) instead of seeking to acquire talented young players with the possibility of a long-term future with the team. Excluding groups of people because of their membership in some group deemed "undesirable" is prejudice, and it leads to bad decisions. Former players should be treated the same way as anyone else trying to become a GM or a coach -- evaluated on their own merits.

Shane Battier, for example, will probably make a first-rate team executive someday -- he's smart, thoughtful, perceptive, has a good sense of humor, and he's systematic and organized in his approach to the game. Many former players would make bad executives, but truth is that many PEOPLE would make bad executives. It's not an easy job (though I don't think it's as difficult as Grunfeld has made it look).

Yes, of course you are totally right. I over-stated my point. And Battier does look like he'd make a terrific executive.

The mistake is thinking that being an ex-player is an inherent advantage, gives a GM some kind of step up over a non-player.

[hands11]

Man, NY just needs to add Joe Johnson or Rudy Gay and they would be awesome.

And for only 126M dollars.

Then they can show Brooklyn how its really done.