OT: Andrew Wiggins Discussion Thread

[mathgeek]

At times I have to step back and remember that these are still 18 year olds, tons of superstars didn't look like future superstars at age 18. Lots of room to grow. Lots of time for the lightbulb to turn on. If anyone told me that the Tracy McGrady that I watched as a Raptor rookie would one day score 30 ppg and be among the top 3-4 players in the league I would have told them they were on crack.

Totally agree, sometimes we forget that these guys are still kids because of their developed physical abilities but after watching that Cabbie interview with Wiggins it kinda puts it into perspective how young these guys are. This is especially true for Wiggins he is extremely shy and comes off as very naive. Still has a long way to go and develop both mentally and physically.

[The_Hater]

Wiggins barely tried today except for like a 2-3 minute stretch. Wouldn't take too much from this game for him.

If your claim that he wasn't trying for 37 minutes is true, that in itself provides far more information than if he played his butt off.

[Undefeated]

It's Parkers defensive liabilities that will hold him back in his career - maybe not from going #1 overall, because he will be able to fill seats due to his offensive prowess.

Jabari's help defense is good. Needs work on man D though.

[Randle McMurphy]

Wiggins barely tried today except for like a 2-3 minute stretch. Wouldn't take too much from this game for him.

Well, other than he didn't try - which is a little bit of a concern, especially if it's a known issue with him to be too passive.

Yes, as part of a greater trend, the lack of effort consistently could be argued to be a problem. But he's generally showed up when the games are close and played well when he's done so. He's still the same talent everyone thought he was.

[fredericklove]

Embiid is unbelievable

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What did I tell you? Incredible prospect. Going to be a special player.

You told me he's a better prospect than Oden, I'm still not buying that claim Won't get into this debate again tho, all I can say is I'd love to have his skillset in Toronto.

[Ragnar0k]

It's Parkers defensive liabilities that will hold him back in his career - maybe not from going #1 overall, because he will be able to fill seats due to his offensive prowess.

Jabari's help defense is good. Needs work on man D though.

I don't think he has the ability to improve his man D, if he does, it'll be marginal. I think he'll get exposed quite a bit in the big league.

[Komodo]

Wiggins barely tried today except for like a 2-3 minute stretch. Wouldn't take too much from this game for him.

Well, other than he didn't try - which is a little bit of a concern, especially if it's a known issue with him to be too passive.

Yes, as part of a greater trend, the lack of effort consistently could be argued to be a problem. But he's generally showed up when the games are close and played well when he's done so. He's still the same talent everyone thought he was.

What talent, or skill, is that, exactly? His lack of skills was the first thing that stood out to me. He's extremely raw offensively. I'd say he more of an athlete than a talent, at this point. And even then he's a little overrated and too passive.

[Randle McMurphy]

Wiggins barely tried today except for like a 2-3 minute stretch. Wouldn't take too much from this game for him.

If your claim that he wasn't trying for 37 minutes is true, that in itself provides far more information than if he played his butt off.

I was at the game. He floated around the court for most of it and barely exerted himself at all outside of a brief period when a Georgetown player pissed him off. The lack of consistent effort doesn't really change anything about why he's long been considered the #1 pick.

[S.W.A.N]

Wiggins barely tried today except for like a 2-3 minute stretch. Wouldn't take too much from this game for him.

If your claim that he wasn't trying for 37 minutes is true, that in itself provides far more information than if he played his butt off.

I wonder if expectations fuel this perception that he doesn't try hard all the time.

He is on an incredibly deep team and they beat the hoyas by 22. Seems to me that Wiggins plays within the offense and only tries to take over when necessary.

Maybe not the alpha mindset some expect from a 'superstar' but I would rather see that then a low iq chucker mentality.

[The_Hater]

Wiggins barely tried today except for like a 2-3 minute stretch. Wouldn't take too much from this game for him.

If your claim that he wasn't trying for 37 minutes is true, that in itself provides far more information than if he played his butt off.

I was at the game. He floated around the court for most of it and barely exerted himself at all outside of a brief period when a Georgetown player pissed him off. The lack of consistent effort doesn't really change anything about why he's long been considered the #1 pick.

I believe you about the lack of effort, I don't agree with you one bit that it's not a huge concern in the eyes of scouts and doesn't change how he's being viewed at the top of the draft. Effort. Motor. Aggresiveness. Those things matter and those are probably the biggest concerns that Wiggins is showing.

Cool that you were at the game though.

[Yosemite Dan]

Wiggins barely tried today except for like a 2-3 minute stretch. Wouldn't take too much from this game for him.

If your claim that he wasn't trying for 37 minutes is true, that in itself provides far more information than if he played his butt off.

That's my main concern. He just seems sleepy out there and that is never good because that may be a product of his personality and I don't know of too many players that had motivational problems and really changed as they got older. I see him out there and I can't help thinking of Bargnani. Then I come here and read the excuses already that he's in a bad system and he's not on a team that allows him to succeed etc....very Bargs like.

If you can't get motivated in your only year of college that your NBA future is staked on then that could be a sign of bad things to come. I see him more of an athlete than a basketball player at this point and if he wasn't Canadian he wouldn't even be on this board's radar right now.

[Ragnar0k]

Wiggins barely tried today except for like a 2-3 minute stretch. Wouldn't take too much from this game for him.

If your claim that he wasn't trying for 37 minutes is true, that in itself provides far more information than if he played his butt off.

I was at the game. He floated around the court for most of it and barely exerted himself at all outside of a brief period when a Georgetown player pissed him off. The lack of consistent effort doesn't really change anything about why he's long been considered the #1 pick.

It's really his passivity that's going to hold him back from improving as a player.

[Undefeated]

I don't think he has the ability to improve his man D, if he does, it'll be marginal. I think he'll get exposed quite a bit in the big league.

He's got a wide frame so he can he use that to his advantage knocking his man off balance kind of like Paul Pierce. I don't think it's because of his lack of lateral quickness that prevents him from a better individual defender, but he's not very alert probably because of the situation he's in at Duke where he has to also anchor their interior defense as well.

[The_Hater]

Maybe not the alpha mindset some expect from a 'superstar' but I would rather see that then a low iq chucker mentality.

Maybe. I think developing better bball IQ is an easier task than developing a high motor though. I hope that the low motor is there because he's being passive and trying to be more of a team guy instead of acting like 'I'm Andrew Wiggins' but it might also be because he doesn't have that aggressive, alpha dog gene.

[Triple B]

Everyone should be happy Wiggens is not dominating and that other people could get the #1 pick. It gives us a way better chance of landing him if we dont end up with the 1st overall pick. Or it gives us a better chance of dealing with someone in the 1st overall clot

[Randle McMurphy]

Well, other than he didn't try - which is a little bit of a concern, especially if it's a known issue with him to be too passive.

Yes, as part of a greater trend, the lack of effort consistently could be argued to be a problem. But he's generally showed up when the games are close and played well when he's done so. He's still the same talent everyone thought he was.

What talent, or skill, is that, exactly? His lack of skills was the first thing that stood out to me. He's extremely raw offensively. I'd say he more of an athlete than a talent, at this point. And even then he's a little overrated and too passive.

I don't need to get into the reasons why Wiggins has been considered #1. You should be able to see that plainly enough for yourself (although I believe Embiid is the more impressive prospect of the two and have thought so for a while now).

The chief thing you (and everyone else **** on him) need to realize right now is just how early in his development as a prospect he is. We're just 10 games into his freshman year. Look no further than a raw Michael Jordan at UNC and his performance as a freshman to see how little performance in these games matters when projecting prospect futures.

[Triple B]

Everyone should be happy Wiggens is not dominating and that other people could get the #1 pick. It gives us a way better chance of landing him if we dont end up with the 1st overall pick. Or it gives us a better chance of dealing with someone in the 1st overall slot if people arent as sold on Wiggens and want other prospects like Parker, Randle and others. Makes it easier to move up in the draft. I am loving the fact that people think he is struggling

[The_Hater]

It's Parkers defensive liabilities that will hold him back in his career - maybe not from going #1 overall, because he will be able to fill seats due to his offensive prowess.

Jabari's help defense is good. Needs work on man D though.

I don't think he has the ability to improve his man D, if he does, it'll be marginal. I think he'll get exposed quite a bit in the big league.

If he improves his body that should improve his quickness and athleticism. He could also stand to get stronger I could also see him learning to use his length better down the road. His defensive instincts in some areas are decent (blocks, steals). I still see a lot of room for improvement, the bigger question might be how good does he want to be on defense?

[Komodo]

Yes, as part of a greater trend, the lack of effort consistently could be argued to be a problem. But he's generally showed up when the games are close and played well when he's done so. He's still the same talent everyone thought he was.

What talent, or skill, is that, exactly? His lack of skills was the first thing that stood out to me. He's extremely raw offensively. I'd say he more of an athlete than a talent, at this point. And even then he's a little overrated and too passive.

I don't need to get into the reasons why Wiggins has been considered #1. You should be able to see that plainly enough for yourself (although I believe Embiid is the more impressive prospect of the two and have thought so for a while now).

The chief thing you (and everyone else **** on him) need to realize right now is just how early in his development as a prospect he is. We're just 10 games into his freshman year. Look no further than a raw Michael Jordan at UNC and his performance as a freshman to see how little performance in these games matters when projecting prospect futures.

So basically you're saying "Wiggins has been rated #1 for a season" and "MJ was raw as a freshman". That's great, but it still doesn't explain Wiggins' poor motor and handle/passing.

[Randle McMurphy]

If your claim that he wasn't trying for 37 minutes is true, that in itself provides far more information than if he played his butt off.

I was at the game. He floated around the court for most of it and barely exerted himself at all outside of a brief period when a Georgetown player pissed him off. The lack of consistent effort doesn't really change anything about why he's long been considered the #1 pick.

I believe you about the lack of effort, I don't agree with you one bit that it's not a huge concern in the eyes of scouts and doesn't change how he's being viewed at the top of the draft. Effort. Motor. Aggresiveness. Those things matter and those are probably the biggest concerns that Wiggins is showing.

Cool that you were at the game though.

Those concerns are nothing that's going to drop his draft stock past anybody but maybe Embiid and Parker, though. It's really not all that big a deal, nor is it any real indication of what his effort level will be in the NBA.

And yeah, fun trip, going to Chiefs tomorrow too.