Rondo Trade Rumors & Ideas (update pg 8)

[hiphop1]

Something that may have been brought up already (don't feel like sifting through 10 pages),

There are 2 teams who stand a very good chance of landing in the top-5 of the draft.

LAL and SAC. Both of these teams have been linked to Rondo and absolutely would consider moving their pick for him I believe. He would certainly need to shake off some more rust through the spring, but remember you heard it here first.

I was thinking the exact same thing

[IDBall]

You know what is funny about this thread is that when Rondo was actually on the floor and playing every day I was hardly alone on this island of calling him a sub-star player. I mean the people here that typically make sense like Humblebum are with me and Sully who is usually on point when he isn't talking to jsimon or calling Larry Bird a diva is with me but most of the rest of you have lost it. I'm saying things like "Rajon Rondo isn't a scorer in the NBA" and SamIAm a veteran Celtics fan is stuck watching youtube of a first round series against against the Bulls and trying to convince me that Rondo is a great player because he led the 2-seed Celtics to a 7-game first round series win over the 7-seeded Bulls. BTW - the lasting memory of that series for me is Ray Allen's 50 pointer that was maybe the highest degree of difficulty 50+ we will ever see. Just an absurd performance by a guy with an absolutely elite skill.

But back to Rondo - get real fellas. Just wait until Rondo is back on the court and you see who he really is. Oh wait - my bad, he is back and I have actual data. The Celtics are 0-6 with Rondo in the lineup and he is shooting not sub-50% not sub-40%, but sub-30% from the field! No joke. Even a guy like Slar who never agrees with me but always brings a logical argument to the table was telling me that he thought the Celts would play .500 basketball with Rondo in the lineup. With 34 games left the Celtics would have to go 20-14 for the rest of the year to have that prediction be a reality. Not even arambone thinks this team is money enough to play play .588 ball.

Face it fellas he isn't who you think he is. He might one day have another 10 assist game that you can get excited about but he isn't a #1 on a good team.

One other just observation about the NBA tonight. Did you notice the Thunder were blowing the Nets out? Did you guys know that Durant had scored 30+ points in 12 straight games and that he was approaching records for such a streak? Guess what happened tonight? The Thunder didn't play him in the 4th because the team and the player are of the opinion that the win is all that matters.

Rondo on the other hand asked back into a blowout LOSS to continue his 10+ assist streak. That's the difference between a winner and a stat monger.

You know whats funny about this whole post? It's completely irrelevant

If you expect a player coming back from ACL injury to lead us to the playoffs, or even help out a tanking team, I've got a bridge to sell you.

[humblebum]

The facts are that the team wasn't slow and plodding and crappy at rebounding because of Doc that is who they were because of the players they had. The concern I would have at this point is the belief that Rondo was suited to an uptempo game is not coming to fruition in the short sample since he came back he has taken the pace out of the game that Crawford and Bradley were playing with for what it is worth.

Great post, Sully.

It seems both Brad and Ainge are committed to uptempo, based on Ainge's comments and Brad's stated willingness to fit system to his players. That said, it would seem pretty difficult for a guy like Rondo who's struggling with his wind and fitness level to be able to play at that pace initially and so I wonder how much of a push Brad's making right now to continue to push the pace. To me, his commitment to running has been on and off all year.

I'm of the opinion that you can play uptempo basketball provided you drill it into every guy and emphasize and reinforce the right habits throughout the season--and in that regard I'd give Brad a C-, he's done some things to emphasize it but not enough. Love to see more emphasis on taking the ball out of the basket faster (we've SLOWLY been getting faster at that throughout the year), more strategic pressing (not just when we're losing by 10 or more late in the 4th quarter) and a lot less indecisiveness from guys whether to pass or shoot it (if you have to think about, you probably should just pass it RIGHT NOW). I know we haven't had a PG most of the year, I know that Pressey is hit and miss and that Crawford was a pretty big ball bouncer and stopper when he was playing, but I just wonder if it hasn't been emphasized enough. I see a team like Philly and their cast of castoffs and if they can do it why can't we? I know they have the young PG with the legs to do it but it just seems like they've made it a habit and an identity and here we are over halfway thru the season and still searching for an identity and if I were to criticize Brad its that he hasn't created an identity for this team (even if it's an ultimately worthless identity it's the first step in developing a team).

If the 2nd half is about anything other than listless losing, it'll be about getting Rondo healthy and making uptempo a habit and not just something you do when the other team throws you the ball by accident.

I've been saying this since the offseason and I'll continue to harp on it. I don't think there is ANY evidence WHATSOEVER that Ainge or Stevens are looking to create an "uptempo" basketball team.

A hard nosed, defensive oriented team, with an emphasis on ball movement and execution in the half court. That's what we had with Doc and Stevens seems to be focused on the same basic style of play.

Of course, we'll see the team opportunistically push the break but I think Ainge/Stevens understand that the game is won on the defensive end first, in the half court offense second, and on the break third.

[ryaningf]

The facts are that the team wasn't slow and plodding and crappy at rebounding because of Doc that is who they were because of the players they had. The concern I would have at this point is the belief that Rondo was suited to an uptempo game is not coming to fruition in the short sample since he came back he has taken the pace out of the game that Crawford and Bradley were playing with for what it is worth.

Great post, Sully.

It seems both Brad and Ainge are committed to uptempo, based on Ainge's comments and Brad's stated willingness to fit system to his players. That said, it would seem pretty difficult for a guy like Rondo who's struggling with his wind and fitness level to be able to play at that pace initially and so I wonder how much of a push Brad's making right now to continue to push the pace. To me, his commitment to running has been on and off all year.

I'm of the opinion that you can play uptempo basketball provided you drill it into every guy and emphasize and reinforce the right habits throughout the season--and in that regard I'd give Brad a C-, he's done some things to emphasize it but not enough. Love to see more emphasis on taking the ball out of the basket faster (we've SLOWLY been getting faster at that throughout the year), more strategic pressing (not just when we're losing by 10 or more late in the 4th quarter) and a lot less indecisiveness from guys whether to pass or shoot it (if you have to think about, you probably should just pass it RIGHT NOW). I know we haven't had a PG most of the year, I know that Pressey is hit and miss and that Crawford was a pretty big ball bouncer and stopper when he was playing, but I just wonder if it hasn't been emphasized enough. I see a team like Philly and their cast of castoffs and if they can do it why can't we? I know they have the young PG with the legs to do it but it just seems like they've made it a habit and an identity and here we are over halfway thru the season and still searching for an identity and if I were to criticize Brad its that he hasn't created an identity for this team (even if it's an ultimately worthless identity it's the first step in developing a team).

If the 2nd half is about anything other than listless losing, it'll be about getting Rondo healthy and making uptempo a habit and not just something you do when the other team throws you the ball by accident.

I've been saying this since the offseason and I'll continue to harp on it. I don't think there is ANY evidence WHATSOEVER that Ainge or Stevens are looking to create an "uptempo" basketball team.

A hard nosed, defensive oriented team, with an emphasis on ball movement and execution in the half court. That's what we had with Doc and Stevens seems to be focused on the same basic style of play.

Of course, we'll see the team opportunistically push the break but I think Ainge/Stevens understand that the game is won on the defensive end first, in the half court offense second, and on the break third.

You can say it all you want and ultimately you might be right but everytime Ainge goes on record about it he's talking about uptempo basketball. It just so happens his best player is at his best in the open court and so it's not much of a stretch to take what he says and take the strengths of his best player and say hey maybe we should be playing more in transition and then questioning things when we aren't.

Stevens is pragmatic and will run what fits the strengths of his players. If Ainge provides him uptempo players, he will coach uptempo basketball.

It's too early (due to injuries, trades, etc...) to say what kind of system we're running or what Stevens is trying to accomplish--which was the heart of my post by the way. I mean, what's this team's identity? If you still see Doc's imprint on this team it's probably because Ainge hasn't done enough to change the makeup of the team and Stevens being the grinder that he is and the kind of guy who will mold system to players then it's no surprise that he's doing stuff similar to what Doc did...because he still has Doc's guys.

Contrast that with what Philly is doing....mostly same players but completely chucked the Doug Collins crap for uptempo fun and ultimately losing basketball. Now, Doug mighta squeezed more Ws out of that team with his system but Philly decided to forgo short term Ws for hopefully long term improvement and asset building. I'm just not sure why Stevens and Ainge didn't do the same--now I'm still giving them a pass because no PG and a poorly constructed team but if I don't see it down the stretch as Rondo rounds into shape then I'm going to have to question what the hell they're up to...

[sully00]

I've been saying this since the offseason and I'll continue to harp on it. I don't think there is ANY evidence WHATSOEVER that Ainge or Stevens are looking to create an "uptempo" basketball team.

A hard nosed, defensive oriented team, with an emphasis on ball movement and execution in the half court. That's what we had with Doc and Stevens seems to be focused on the same basic style of play.

Of course, we'll see the team opportunistically push the break but I think Ainge/Stevens understand that the game is won on the defensive end first, in the half court offense second, and on the break third.

The evidence was the team on the floor. They were playing at high pace and pushing the ball until Ainge dealt Lee and Crawford away. There is no reason to have Phil Pressey on an NBA roster if you don't plan on maximizing what he does well because it sure as hell is not going to be half court basketball. But that is small potatoes compared to trading into the lottery to draft Kelly Olynyk and then decide you want to be a half court defensive minded team.

Danny Ainge is not a half court grind kind of guy he wants defense but he wants offense as well. Your never going to get anywhere building with young guys but trying to play like they are all 10 year vets. You have to coach to the strength of your personnel and they can obviously change the personnel over time but as this roster currently stands it has no business trying to be a half court team.

[humblebum]

Stevens has traditionally been a defense first coach who emphasizes half court execution.

Talk is one thing but in practice the team is going to be balanced. We're not looking at an uptempo team.

Olynyk might not be a defensive grinder but he's certainly NOT an uptempo athlete. He's a guy who helps you execute in the halfcourt and creates space for Rondo to operate.

We're not going to be the Kidd led Nets, the Nash Suns or anything of the sort. This team is going to be built to succeed in the halfcourt on both ends first, and they'll run in an opportunistic fashion.

[ryaningf]

Stevens has traditionally been a defense first coach who emphasizes half court execution.

I think you need to separate what Stevens did in college and what he's going to do in the pros. In college, taking the air out of the ball and focusing on physical defense was the best way to win with what were usually shorter, less athletic recruits. What we know about Stevens is that he isn't wed to any particular system--he's wed to crafting the best system for the players he has...

Olynyk might not be a defensive grinder but he's certainly NOT an uptempo athlete. He's a guy who helps you execute in the halfcourt and creates space for Rondo to operate.

Olynyk is helpful on both fronts. He's not that athletic but where he really excels at is recognizing change of possession and beating his man up the court. You don't have to be that fast to be an uptempo player, you just need good anticipation ability and then a willingness to sprint up the court and beat your man. Olynyk has both which makes him a very good transition player, somebody who can be both the first man up the court and also a deadly trailer.

We're not going to be the Kidd led Nets, the Nash Suns or anything of the sort. This team is going to be built to succeed in the halfcourt on both ends first, and they'll run in an opportunistic fashion.

We'll see about that--it's going to mostly come down to the players Ainge can acquire not some predetermined ideology. Ainge has shown he'll take your older HOFers and mold a champion out of defense and half court efficiency. Give him Rondo and let's say Josh Smith in a trade and you're going to see something much closer to those 2000s Nets teams I'd suspect. It's going to come down to what kind of All-Star talent is available in the market and what it takes for Ainge to acquire that talent.

[humblebum]

Stevens has traditionally been a defense first coach who emphasizes half court execution.

I think you need to separate what Stevens did in college and what he's going to do in the pros. In college, taking the air out of the ball and focusing on physical defense was the best way to win with what were usually shorter, less athletic recruits. What we know about Stevens is that he isn't wed to any particular system--he's wed to crafting the best system for the players he has...

Olynyk might not be a defensive grinder but he's certainly NOT an uptempo athlete. He's a guy who helps you execute in the halfcourt and creates space for Rondo to operate.

Olynyk is helpful on both fronts. He's not that athletic but where he really excels at is recognizing change of possession and beating his man up the court. You don't have to be that fast to be an uptempo player, you just need good anticipation ability and then a willingness to sprint up the court and beat your man. Olynyk has both which makes him a very good transition player, somebody who can be both the first man up the court and also a deadly trailer.

We're not going to be the Kidd led Nets, the Nash Suns or anything of the sort. This team is going to be built to succeed in the halfcourt on both ends first, and they'll run in an opportunistic fashion.

We'll see about that--it's going to mostly come down to the players Ainge can acquire not some predetermined ideology. Ainge has shown he'll take your older HOFers and mold a champion out of defense and half court efficiency. Give him Rondo and let's say Josh Smith in a trade and you're going to see something much closer to those 2000s Nets teams I'd suspect. It's going to come down to what kind of All-Star talent is available in the market and what it takes for Ainge to acquire that talent.

Olynyk is not a transition offense guy, point blank period. He's a functional half court offensive oriented role player. Sure he can beat his man up the floor on occasion but he's hardly going to herald in the next era of uptempo ball.

As far as Stevens coaching style goes, it's pretty clear he's focused on execution first and foremost. In college and now in Boston (though it's obviously early in his tenure) he's putting in lots of different sets in the halfcourt and he has the team focused on defensive execution.

Coaches can be adaptable to their players but they all have certain principles which they emphasize. Stevens happens to be the type of coach who believes in stout halfcourt defense and ball/player movement oriented half court offense.

Heck, even Rondo, for all his ability in transition, tends to emphasize those things as well, often preferring to "settle the game down" and "run our stuff" finding guys in their spots. When the defense ramps up, Rondo is quick to seize opportunities. But unlike Kidd and Nash, he tends to like to advance the ball with the dribble.

I don't see any signs, aside from the same lip service we heard wen Doc was here, that there is any intention of creating a true uptempo team. It's just something that fans like to hear and want to see but it's not a wining strategy at the NBA level. We're going to continue to see a team that is focused on balance, defense and execution, then transition, IMO.

[BfB]

Stevens has traditionally been a defense first coach who emphasizes half court execution.

I think you need to separate what Stevens did in college and what he's going to do in the pros. In college, taking the air out of the ball and focusing on physical defense was the best way to win with what were usually shorter, less athletic recruits. What we know about Stevens is that he isn't wed to any particular system--he's wed to crafting the best system for the players he has...

Olynyk might not be a defensive grinder but he's certainly NOT an uptempo athlete. He's a guy who helps you execute in the halfcourt and creates space for Rondo to operate.

Olynyk is helpful on both fronts. He's not that athletic but where he really excels at is recognizing change of possession and beating his man up the court. You don't have to be that fast to be an uptempo player, you just need good anticipation ability and then a willingness to sprint up the court and beat your man. Olynyk has both which makes him a very good transition player, somebody who can be both the first man up the court and also a deadly trailer.

We're not going to be the Kidd led Nets, the Nash Suns or anything of the sort. This team is going to be built to succeed in the halfcourt on both ends first, and they'll run in an opportunistic fashion.

We'll see about that--it's going to mostly come down to the players Ainge can acquire not some predetermined ideology. Ainge has shown he'll take your older HOFers and mold a champion out of defense and half court efficiency. Give him Rondo and let's say Josh Smith in a trade and you're going to see something much closer to those 2000s Nets teams I'd suspect. It's going to come down to what kind of All-Star talent is available in the market and what it takes for Ainge to acquire that talent.

Olynyk is not a transition offense guy, point blank period. He's a functional half court offensive oriented role player. Sure he can beat his man up the floor on occasion but he's hardly going to herald in the next era of uptempo ball.

As far as Stevens coaching style goes, it's pretty clear he's focused on execution first and foremost. In college and now in Boston (though it's obviously early in his tenure) he's putting in lots of different sets in the halfcourt and he has the team focused on defensive execution.

Coaches can be adaptable to their players but they all have certain principles which they emphasize. Stevens happens to be the type of coach who believes in stout halfcourt defense and ball/player movement oriented half court offense.

Heck, even Rondo, for all his ability in transition, tends to emphasize those things as well, often preferring to "settle the game down" and "run our stuff" finding guys in their spots. When the defense ramps up, Rondo is quick to seize opportunities. But unlike Kidd and Nash, he tends to like to advance the ball with the dribble.

I don't see any signs, aside from the same lip service we heard wen Doc was here, that there is any intention of creating a true uptempo team. It's just something that fans like to hear and want to see but it's not a wining strategy at the NBA level. We're going to continue to see a team that is focused on balance, defense and execution, then transition, IMO.

Sorry, Olynyk is definitely a transition player at the 4 and especially at the 5. He's consistently beaten his man up court all year and has excellent mobility for a player his size. He'll be an asset in transition, for sure.

As far as "uptempo", I think we have to define the type of uptempo we're talking about. You're only going to win a title with an effective half court offense, but that doesn't mean taking transition baskets whenever possible isn't a good decision.

I think we've seen plenty of opportunistic transition play. We've also seen Stevens yelling to "speed things up" on the sideline numerous times, so I think the team is entitled to a little credit in that regard. However, the notion that they'll just "run" 24/7 is a bit foolhardy, I believe. It pays to practice halfcourt offense and that type of execution will further valuate their trade commodities. Running/gunning looks "cool" for fans, but it doesn't do much for other teams trying to evaluate how a player, such as Bass, Humphries, etc will fit in with their offense.

I expect pace to be established with defensive stops and opportunistic transition looks. I don't expect the team to be a "transition" team, which is different from "uptempo" in my book.

[sully00]

I am not confusing up tempo with Mike D'antoni or Don Nelson that isn't what I mean at all. What I am saying is that for Boston to develop into a winning outfit with the talent it has on its roster it has to play like the Thunder, Clippers, Rockets, and Blazers who are all in the top 10 of pace of play while being at least average if not really good defensive teams.

As we have seen here in Boston the slower you play the smaller the margin for error that is not good for an offense built on a pg chucking the ball around and young players who are by nature mistake prone. Beyond that the Heat are the only championship team I have seen in all of my time of watching the NBA that plays slow and has no low post presence but that is misleading because Lebron can go to work wherever he wants and the Heat tend to ratchet up the pace in the 4th quarter.

There are three elements to this that were very present early in the season and have since faded a little in the team's approach.

1. Tenacious ball pressure - this comes and goes with Bradley it is not necessarily a team trait outside of him and possibly Wallace but Rondo can play a roll in this as well. The easiest way for a good defense of team to get in transition is to force turnovers.

2. Outlet passing - Boston has very good passing bigs and wings and Jeff Green is terrific in the open floor. Wallace, Sullinger, and Hump are all excellent outet passers and Rondo and Pressey can both move the ball well through the pass. This team has the ability to do a ton of this but it fades it isn't consistent.

3. Take the first open look - This doesn't mean chucking but especially since Rondo's return this team has gone back to the probing offense of dribbling and passing through multiple looks in some effort to find the best look and frequently ending up with the same 18-20 foot jumper they could have taken with 20 seconds on the clock. This was fine when you had all kinds of old pro assassins and even then it was frustrating. This team is no longer a terrible offensive rebounding outfit they can get on the glass and the sooner you get that shot up against the retreating defense the better the payoff on the offensive glass, the longer you let the defense get set the harder it is to get on the glass.

The biggest problem in this I see for Boston is they themselves are lacking as far as a transition defensive team so if you start getting up and down you better get back or your dead. But this team is dead anyhow the should start laying the groundwork for what comes next.

[KGboss]

Rondo for Irving ?

I proposed this in the Trades and Transactions thread and youd think irving is an MVP and Rondo some mook that they brought in off the street with the hate i got for that.

[Slartibartfast]

I am not confusing up tempo with Mike D'antoni or Don Nelson that isn't what I mean at all. What I am saying is that for Boston to develop into a winning outfit with the talent it has on its roster it has to play like the Thunder, Clippers, Rockets, and Blazers who are all in the top 10 of pace of play while being at least average if not really good defensive teams.

As we have seen here in Boston the slower you play the smaller the margin for error that is not good for an offense built on a pg chucking the ball around and young players who are by nature mistake prone. Beyond that the Heat are the only championship team I have seen in all of my time of watching the NBA that plays slow and has no low post presence but that is misleading because Lebron can go to work wherever he wants and the Heat tend to ratchet up the pace in the 4th quarter.

There are three elements to this that were very present early in the season and have since faded a little in the team's approach.

1. Tenacious ball pressure - this comes and goes with Bradley it is not necessarily a team trait outside of him and possibly Wallace but Rondo can play a roll in this as well. The easiest way for a good defense of team to get in transition is to force turnovers.

2. Outlet passing - Boston has very good passing bigs and wings and Jeff Green is terrific in the open floor. Wallace, Sullinger, and Hump are all excellent outet passers and Rondo and Pressey can both move the ball well through the pass. This team has the ability to do a ton of this but it fades it isn't consistent.

3. Take the first open look - This doesn't mean chucking but especially since Rondo's return this team has gone back to the probing offense of dribbling and passing through multiple looks in some effort to find the best look and frequently ending up with the same 18-20 foot jumper they could have taken with 20 seconds on the clock. This was fine when you had all kinds of old pro assassins and even then it was frustrating. This team is no longer a terrible offensive rebounding outfit they can get on the glass and the sooner you get that shot up against the retreating defense the better the payoff on the offensive glass, the longer you let the defense get set the harder it is to get on the glass.

The biggest problem in this I see for Boston is they themselves are lacking as far as a transition defensive team so if you start getting up and down you better get back or your dead. But this team is dead anyhow the should start laying the groundwork for what comes next.

It's going to be difficult to get much of a transition game going with the bigs we've got. To really unleash the hounds of ball pressure, you need some rim protection and team speed. We've got a bunch of slowish, undersized, below-the-rim bigs as our last line of defense. We can't trap, we struggle to double and recover and we can't really afford to press good ball-handlers when so many goodies are waiting for them in the paint. And then on the other end of the floor, nobody's worrying about Bass or Hump trucking down the court or Sully pulling up from 3.

This year's Phoenix team is the model for a young team trying to play up-tempo. Play bigs who are either legit threats from deep (Frye) or gazelles in transition (Plumlee) or blends of both (the Morris twins). We play bigs who are neither and suck just as much on D. We compound the problem by playing two guys who are best suited as transition 4s in Gerald and Jeff almost exclusively at the wing (including a mindboggling 39% of Wallace's minutes at the 2-guard).

Either we're dumb, we're showcasing our bigs for trade, or we're just not trying very hard to play up-tempo ball.

[humblebum]

Thanks slart for restoring some sense to this conversation. If this team is built for transition ball I'm Mr. Peanut.

And if BfB and others really think Olynyk is an uptempo big I don't know what to say. He's in the bottom 1% of NBA athletes. If Ainge was intent on building an uptempo team he wouldn't have drafted Sullinger, Fab, and Olynyk the last couple seasons when guys like Wroten, Perry Jones and Giannis were on the board. Further, I don't think they'd have hired a coach who led a Butler team that played at a snails pace.

Saying that the team wants to opportunistically look to push the break is one thing, but that's not uptempo basketball. That's called playing smart, balanced ball.

[Slartibartfast]

Thanks slart for restoring some sense to this conversation. If this team is built for transition ball I'm Mr. Peanut.

And if BfB and others really think Olynyk is an uptempo big I don't know what to say. He's in the bottom 1% of NBA athletes. If Ainge was intent on building an uptempo team he wouldn't have drafted Sullinger, Fab, and Olynyk the last couple seasons when guys like Wroten, Perry Jones and Giannis were on the board. Further, I don't think they'd have hired a coach who led a Butler team that played at a snails pace.

Saying that the team wants to opportunistically look to push the break is one thing, but that's not uptempo basketball. That's called playing smart, balanced ball.

I think Sully's closer to the antithesis of an uptempo big than KO with his heavily (hehe) post-oriented play. I concur that KO's a sup-par athlete, but I could see him being of use in an uptempo attack, much like Frye in Phoenix or Divac/Miller in Sacramento. Up tempo requires speed, but shooting and guard skill are also big contributors and KO has the latter (though the early returns on the shooting have been underwhelming, I'm optimistic long-term).

If we were to embrace speed ball (I agree - Ainge doesn't seem to be prioritizing it), I think Sully should be the first to go. Otherwise, I expect us to move more towards the model Memphis used, with ball-pressure from athletic guards feeding an opportunistic break, but half-court interior play anchoring the offense. Sort of what the Spurs do as well.

[ryaningf]

Thanks slart for restoring some sense to this conversation. If this team is built for transition ball I'm Mr. Peanut.

Not sure who said this team is built for transition. It's not--obviously. Slart made some great points as to why it hasn't worked out and perhaps why it can't work out. And Sully made some great points about why uptempo transition basketball is a no-brainer for improving our current asset base. Put those two points together and you get why Stevens' attempt to play at a higher pace has failed so far--even though it's the best way to develop these guys the pieces just don't fit. Rondo could make a difference in this regard, as would balancing the roster with a few trades.

And if BfB and others really think Olynyk is an uptempo big I don't know what to say. He's in the bottom 1% of NBA athletes. If Ainge was intent on building an uptempo team he wouldn't have drafted Sullinger, Fab, and Olynyk the last couple seasons when guys like Wroten, Perry Jones and Giannis were on the board.

As BfB noted, Olynyk has consistently beat his man up the court all year long. Did it in the summer league as well. Athleticism is helpful when it comes to finishing in transition but mental awareness of the change of possession and a will to run is what creates a great transition player.

I believe if Ainge had his pick of the litter he'd create an uptempo team. Since he doesn't, since he's a pragmatic guy who plays the hand he's dealt, he just tries to pick BPA. I can't defend the Melo pick in any way because I hated it from jumpstreet but as Slart pointed out you need athletic help defenders, guys who can block shots and defend the rim and trap smaller players on occasion and guys who can rebound the ball--that could have been Melo. Olynyk and Sully are more limited on the defensive end of things but their offensive skillsets definitely fit the uptempo profile. Sully might be more suited to half court offensive basketball than he is to uptempo due to his post game and slowness changing ends but he's still more than capable of hitting threes, rebounding and making great outlet passes. He was also clearly BPO at the time he was drafted.

We've got about 7 great uptempo pieces (Rondo/Bradley/Green/Wallace/Olynyk/Pressey/Johnson), a couple pieces who could swing either way (Sully and Bayless), and then some mismatched talent we're kind of forced to play right now (Bass and Hump). If given the proper kind of roster balance I think we could see great improvement in pace in the 2nd half of the season, mainly from playing Wallace and Green at PF and using our lack of a true center to our advantage. I see the trading of Bass or Hump as a necessity, even if it means not getting much in return. Their mere presence just has way too much residual negative impact on the rest of the roster.

[cloverleaf]

Thanks slart for restoring some sense to this conversation. If this team is built for transition ball I'm Mr. Peanut.

Not sure who said this team is built for transition. It's not--obviously. Slart made some great points as to why it hasn't worked out and perhaps why it can't work out. And Sully made some great points about why uptempo transition basketball is a no-brainer for improving our current asset base. Put those two points together and you get why Stevens' attempt to play at a higher pace has failed so far--even though it's the best way to develop these guys the pieces just don't fit. Rondo could make a difference in this regard, as would balancing the roster with a few trades.

And if BfB and others really think Olynyk is an uptempo big I don't know what to say. He's in the bottom 1% of NBA athletes. If Ainge was intent on building an uptempo team he wouldn't have drafted Sullinger, Fab, and Olynyk the last couple seasons when guys like Wroten, Perry Jones and Giannis were on the board.

As BfB noted, Olynyk has consistently beat his man up the court all year long. Did it in the summer league as well. Athleticism is helpful when it comes to finishing in transition but mental awareness of the change of possession and a will to run is what creates a great transition player.

I believe if Ainge had his pick of the litter he'd create an uptempo team. Since he doesn't, since he's a pragmatic guy who plays the hand he's dealt, he just tries to pick BPA. I can't defend the Melo pick in any way because I hated it from jumpstreet but as Slart pointed out you need athletic help defenders, guys who can block shots and defend the rim and trap smaller players on occasion and guys who can rebound the ball--that could have been Melo. Olynyk and Sully are more limited on the defensive end of things but their offensive skillsets definitely fit the uptempo profile. Sully might be more suited to half court offensive basketball than he is to uptempo due to his post game and slowness changing ends but he's still more than capable of hitting threes, rebounding and making great outlet passes. He was also clearly BPO at the time he was drafted.

We've got about 7 great uptempo pieces (Rondo/Bradley/Green/Wallace/Olynyk/Pressey/Johnson), a couple pieces who could swing either way (Sully and Bayless), and then some mismatched talent we're kind of forced to play right now (Bass and Hump). If given the proper kind of roster balance I think we could see great improvement in pace in the 2nd half of the season, mainly from playing Wallace and Green at PF and using our lack of a true center to our advantage. I see the trading of Bass or Hump as a necessity, even if it means not getting much in return. Their mere presence just has way too much residual negative impact on the rest of the roster.

Sure, KO is big and very white, but he's not really a bad athlete. He had quite good numbers compared to the other bigs at the pre-draft combine.

[chrisab123]

Something that may have been brought up already (don't feel like sifting through 10 pages),

There are 2 teams who stand a very good chance of landing in the top-5 of the draft.

LAL and SAC. Both of these teams have been linked to Rondo and absolutely would consider moving their pick for him I believe. He would certainly need to shake off some more rust through the spring, but remember you heard it here first.

So what if the pick busts? Then you're left trading Rondo for nothing. On the flip side you're gambling that the pick will end up being as good as Rondo. I just don't see the obsession over trading Rondo.

[klemen4]

The only Rondo trade I see possible is on draft day to Sacramento:

Mclemore, Top 5 pick for Rondo

We could then go with Smart or Exum with SAC pick and best SF in 6-10 range with our pick.

Smart/McLemore/Hood/Sully/???

[humblebum]

Thanks slart for restoring some sense to this conversation. If this team is built for transition ball I'm Mr. Peanut.

Not sure who said this team is built for transition. It's not--obviously. Slart made some great points as to why it hasn't worked out and perhaps why it can't work out. And Sully made some great points about why uptempo transition basketball is a no-brainer for improving our current asset base. Put those two points together and you get why Stevens' attempt to play at a higher pace has failed so far--even though it's the best way to develop these guys the pieces just don't fit. Rondo could make a difference in this regard, as would balancing the roster with a few trades.

And if BfB and others really think Olynyk is an uptempo big I don't know what to say. He's in the bottom 1% of NBA athletes. If Ainge was intent on building an uptempo team he wouldn't have drafted Sullinger, Fab, and Olynyk the last couple seasons when guys like Wroten, Perry Jones and Giannis were on the board.

As BfB noted, Olynyk has consistently beat his man up the court all year long. Did it in the summer league as well. Athleticism is helpful when it comes to finishing in transition but mental awareness of the change of possession and a will to run is what creates a great transition player.

I believe if Ainge had his pick of the litter he'd create an uptempo team. Since he doesn't, since he's a pragmatic guy who plays the hand he's dealt, he just tries to pick BPA. I can't defend the Melo pick in any way because I hated it from jumpstreet but as Slart pointed out you need athletic help defenders, guys who can block shots and defend the rim and trap smaller players on occasion and guys who can rebound the ball--that could have been Melo. Olynyk and Sully are more limited on the defensive end of things but their offensive skillsets definitely fit the uptempo profile. Sully might be more suited to half court offensive basketball than he is to uptempo due to his post game and slowness changing ends but he's still more than capable of hitting threes, rebounding and making great outlet passes. He was also clearly BPO at the time he was drafted.

We've got about 7 great uptempo pieces (Rondo/Bradley/Green/Wallace/Olynyk/Pressey/Johnson), a couple pieces who could swing either way (Sully and Bayless), and then some mismatched talent we're kind of forced to play right now (Bass and Hump). If given the proper kind of roster balance I think we could see great improvement in pace in the 2nd half of the season, mainly from playing Wallace and Green at PF and using our lack of a true center to our advantage. I see the trading of Bass or Hump as a necessity, even if it means not getting much in return. Their mere presence just has way too much residual negative impact on the rest of the roster.

You can give me as many ifs as you please but I don't think there is really any hard evidence to support this idea that the team wants to play uptempo.

If there was a commitment to it there'd not only be an emphasis on drafting uptempo players (there hasn't been no matter how you want to spin the Olynyk pick) but there'd be more transition on scores, more quick inbounds, and less plays being run.

Instead we've seen plodders being drafted, SF's playing SG, and very little swing oriented lineups up front. I don't think I've seen a quick inbound and quick push up the court off a score all season. It's not being coached and Ainge hasn't managed the thing to build a true uptempo team.

What were seeing is a team built on defense, execution in the half court, and opportunistic fast breaking. That does not an uptempo team make.

[ryaningf]

I don't think I've seen a quick inbound and quick push up the court off a score all season. .

We'll have to agree to disagree then and pick this up in the offseason when Ainge has had a full year to reshape the team. Those moves should be pretty definitive in the true direction of the team. What we're debating here mostly comes down to Ainge only completing a partial dismantling of Doc's team and transition to Brad's and getting caught up in the contradiction that still persists on this roster.

While it's not a consistent habit, I've seen much more emphasis on inbounding the ball quickly and pushing the ball after scores than I did last season. Last season was like the worst when it came to those things so maybe I'm not saying much here but I think you're overstating your case or not watching closely to say you haven't seen it all season.