Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2)

[hands11]

I wasn't too big a Ryan Kelly fan but I was all about Erik Murphy who had pretty much identical stats and measureables as Kelly. The difference now is that Kelly is getting the garbage time to showcase his talents on a depleted run and gun Lakers squad and Murphy is buried on a defensively oriented Chicago squad. Victims/beneficiaries of circumstance.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... lly-3.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... phy-1.html

You read that all wrong Nate and your comment was totally uncalled for and inaccurate.

How were we supposed to read it?

In a much more friendly light hearted tongue and cheek way. See the laughie things, the wink, the love you bro to CCJ.

Not sure how it could not be read that way actually.

As for the players, yeah I think Erik still stands a chance to be a good role player as should the other players. Some of those late 2nds aren't even playing this year in the NBA because they went over seas. I think Muscala is one of them.

[thricethefun]

It's unbelievable how badly Ernie has botched every draft since the 2010 one (which he did fairly decent on. Wall at #1 was a no-brainer and Booker and Seraphin are solid backups.
2011: Drafted Ves at #6 (bust), Chris Sing at #18 (bust), Shelvin Mack #34 (not with team anymore)
2012: Drafted Beal #3 (which is looking like he should have picked Drummond). Satoransky (wtf)
2013: Drafted Porter #3 (major bust) Glen Rice Jr #35 (doesn't play)

That's 3 straight drafts where he literally blew every pick except maybe Beal. So now we are left with basically our version of the Lebron led Cavs teams where its just John Wall carrying a much of mediocre talent. Fire this man.

[TGW]

To me, nothing would be better than the team missing the playoffs, getting a lottery pick, and getting rid of Grunfeld and everything associated with him. Then the new GM can come in with an clean slate (almost) and get this team on track.

[Nivek]

It's unbelievable how badly Ernie has botched every draft since the 2010 one (which he did fairly decent on. Wall at #1 was a no-brainer and Booker and Seraphin are solid backups.
2011: Drafted Ves at #6 (bust), Chris Sing at #18 (bust), Shelvin Mack #34 (not with team anymore)
2012: Drafted Beal #3 (which is looking like he should have picked Drummond). Satoransky (wtf)
2013: Drafted Porter #3 (major bust) Glen Rice Jr #35 (doesn't play)

That's 3 straight drafts where he literally blew every pick except maybe Beal. So now we are left with basically our version of the Lebron led Cavs teams where its just John Wall carrying a much of mediocre talent. Fire this man.

Not to get all nitpicky with a well-done rant, but...this is not a Lebron-Cleveland situation. Wall is good, but not great. Lebron was capital G Great. The Wizards have 5-6 reliable NBA players: Wall, Ariza, Gortat, Nenê, Webster, and Booker. Sometimes Beal is good, sometimes not. After those guys, there's not much. Now and then they'll get a burst from Vesely or Seraphin, but nothing that can be counted on.

This is the team Grunfeld built.

And, for anyone who thinks Grunfeld is doing an a-okay job, keep this in mind:

We wanted to upgrade our backup point guard position and Eric [Maynor] has been with us now, three weeks in a row. He’s very solid, very steady. He brings a little poise to the game. He knows how to play. So we feel we’ve upgraded that position.

-- Ernie Grunfeld, September 25, 2013

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It's unbelievable how badly Ernie has botched every draft since the 2010 one (which he did fairly decent on. Wall at #1 was a no-brainer and Booker and Seraphin are solid backups.
2011: Drafted Ves at #6 (bust), Chris Sing at #18 (bust), Shelvin Mack #34 (not with team anymore)
2012: Drafted Beal #3 (which is looking like he should have picked Drummond). Satoransky (wtf)
2013: Drafted Porter #3 (major bust) Glen Rice Jr #35 (doesn't play)

That's 3 straight drafts where he literally blew every pick except maybe Beal. So now we are left with basically our version of the Lebron led Cavs teams where its just John Wall carrying a much of mediocre talent. Fire this man.

What about the 2009 draft?

Ernie traded the fifth pick to Minnesota for just one season each of Randy Foye and Mike Miller. Both were urestricted free agents. Steph Curry was a no-brainer pick. The Timberwolves selected Flynn and Rubio. The Wizards won 26 and lost 56, and both Foye and Miller walked. In the second round, with Dejuan Blair available, EG sold the pick. All Blair did was start a couple seasons with a San Antonio team that averaged near 60 wins.

Five years later, EG again burned a first for an unrestricted free agent in a contract year. Gortat can walk. Marshall is fine for the Lakers. Shannon Brown also waived by EG is now getting a look from the Spurs.

Ted stands by a friend is all I can see as to why EG is GM. The worst part is that the Wizards sre worse off already in the future because of the short term agendas of this GM and coaching staff. They stay on top if they achieve mediocrity in the short run.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

To me, nothing would be better than the team missing the playoffs, getting a lottery pick, and getting rid of Grunfeld and everything associated with him. Then the new GM can come in with an clean slate (almost) and get this team on track.

With the losses to San Antonio and Cleveland, I am starting to feel the same way. The Wizards are once again under .500. Wall's comments after the Cavs loss reflect the most tension of the season.

The Wizards next play Sacramento. I won't be upset if the Wizards lose, and drop three or four in a row. I never root for them to lose. However, I agree, TGW, they need a new GM and a pick in the draft.

[payitforward]

Chris Grant is worse than EG. Still, I am surprised that he got fired midseason.

He's not much; that's for sure. On the other hand, they didn't keep in his job for a decade!

[payitforward]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/231829/JaVale-McGee-Could-Miss-Remainder-Of-Season

EG may suck at drafts but he clearly won this trade.

Asthma Cinnamon eating planking Shaq a Fool Momma's boy McGee and his side kick N1on5 Shaggy P for
Nene

That's almost as good as getting ride of Gungate Poop in your shoes Gil for Lewis and then Lewis for Trevor A and Okafor.

EG does some stupid things. But he has also done some good things.

Did we win the Nene trade? No, not really, Hands. It sure looked like we did the way he played to end the 2011-12 season, so it was easy to fall in the hole of thinking it was a good trade.

Then Nene wasn't very effective last season, and he's been even less effective this season. Nene was a wonderful player in his youth, but he isn't young any more. And when you saddle a rebuild w/ a salary like his... well that's you get to 24-25 in the 4th year of rebuilding! We'd have been much better off letting JaVale walk for the cap room that would have given us.

How about the other "good thing" you mention? Well, no doubt trading Gil for a salary one year shorter and which we could buy out to continue rebuilding was an excellent move. But then failing to buy it out -- in essence abandoning the rebuilding process -- and instead trading for an injury-prone, over-paid Okafor completely hobbled us, and then hobbled us even more when we had no plan B behind him and had to give away a Round 1 pick for one year's rental on Gortat.

So, no, Hands, those were not "some good things" Ernie did -- which isn't to say he hasn't done some other good things: I class signing Martell as a good move, for example. And I would have been happy to trade for Ariza in a different deal. He's always been a solid player.

[payitforward]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/231829/JaVale-McGee-Could-Miss-Remainder-Of-Season

EG my suck at drafs but he clearly won this trade.

Asthma Cinnamon eating planking Shaq a Fool Momma's boy McGee and his side kick N1on5 Shaggy P for
Nene

That's almost as good as getting ride of Gungate Poop in your shoes Gil for Lewis and then Lewis for Trevor A and Okafor.EG does some stupid things. But he has also done some good things.

Not really, IMO.

Couldn't he have instead of trading simply not re-signed McGee?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Sure. You can always not sign a player and let them walk and get nothing. Wall could have been left on a rudderless team with no quality vets and turned into Kyrie.

I don't think Wall game would have developed like it is without Nene, Trevor A, Okafor and now Gortat.

You of all people should remember what path Wall was going down. We used to complain about him all the time.

More of the ex post facto narration. First off, you don't "get nothing." You get the cap room you need to build your team. Secondly, we complained about Wall when he was young and raw; and if you are really going to say that one conversation w/ Nene made a big difference... you're dreaming man.

Finally, if you're going to rewrite history because you know what would have happened (how?), why not rewrite it so that we traded JaVale for Cousins whom you seem to love? Or for picks that let us take Drummond? Or, if we hadn't let JaVale walk, we could have given him his qualifying offer and done a sign and trade. What we *needed* was not age and experience but youth and talent!

As well, there's a difference between liking *a player* and liking *a trade* that gets you the player you like. A basic difference.

[payitforward]

Picking the wrong guy in the second round is pretty low on the List of Ernie Grievances that I keep in my wallet. I think Rice was a reasonable selection for where he was taken and it's way, way too early to draw any conclusions as to whether or not he'll help. EVen if he proves to be the wrong pick, it's still pretty low the (laminated) list.

Picking the wrong guy once -- sure. Wasting high Round 2 picks over and over is pretty bad. Even more it's an indicator that the GM doesn't know what he's doing, since those are among the most valuable picks (not players... picks). They bring you the same talent you get in the last part of Round 1 -- but you don't have to guarantee a guy for years.

We should have had Dejuan Blair in '09. We should have had Chandler Parsons in '11. We should have had Crowder or Draymond Green in '12, we should also have Kyle O'Quinn later in that round (instead of throwing the pick in when we traded Shard), we should have Nate Wolters, and so forth.... Bad stuff.

[JonFromVA]

As a Cavs fan, I can tell you it's been no easy job plucking gems out of these past drafts. I like Beal a lot, and the only thing worrying me about him is his ability to stay healthy. Porter is one of those guys who's going to probably need to go through a full off-season workout regimen before he's ready for the NBA level. Vesley hasn't panned out, but when you take a player so raw, you'd better be prepared to teach them.

Anyway, don't be too quick to judge players so young.

I wouldn't fire Ernie for his recent drafting so much as his overall judgement/performance.

[montestewart]

Picking the wrong guy in the second round is pretty low on the List of Ernie Grievances that I keep in my wallet. I think Rice was a reasonable selection for where he was taken and it's way, way too early to draw any conclusions as to whether or not he'll help. EVen if he proves to be the wrong pick, it's still pretty low the (laminated) list.

Picking the wrong guy once -- sure. Wasting high Round 2 picks over and over is pretty bad. Even more it's an indicator that the GM doesn't know what he's doing, since those are among the most valuable picks (not players... picks). They bring you the same talent you get in the last part of Round 1 -- but you don't have to guarantee a guy for years.

We should have had Dejuan Blair in '09. We should have had Chandler Parsons in '11. We should have had Crowder or Draymond Green in '12, we should also have Kyle O'Quinn later in that round (instead of throwing the pick in when we traded Shard), we should have Nate Wolters, and so forth.... Bad stuff.

2nd round gets you maybe a 10-20% chance at getting a contributor at a cheap price. The more you trade them away, the less chance of getting something out of it. Conversely, the better you are at uncovering such contributors, the better the odds. EG got Blatche and McGuire in the 2nd. Not great players, but with the ability to contribute. With the Bucks, he got Redd and Gadzuric in the 2nd. The Bullets/Wizards have done pretty well in the 2nd: Brent Price, Calvin Booth, Jahidi, Steve Blake. Arenas was a 2nd round pick. You'd think EG would know better the value of 2nd round picks, and at least try to get better return when trading them away rather than treating them like throw-in freebies.

[montestewart]

I wouldn't fire Ernie for his recent drafting so much as his overall judgement/performance.

I think that view is shared by most of us who want him gone. Some of the lesser issues (squandering 2nd rounders, failing to make good use of the D-League, etc.) may not by themselves make or break the Wizards, but they are a part of the larger miasma of failure.

[payitforward]

How is it always someone else that is remembered as the biggest supporter once a player I posted about does well ... Yet any time I point out when I get it right, I'm bragging.

Hands is totally right here. When someone sees something in a prospect or a player that others haven't seen, I mean he sees it first (or at least didn't get the idea from someone else here), he should get credit for it.

Hands, why don't you take a minute and point some of the players who've succeeded in the league -- solid guys, don't have to be stars -- whom you identified first? I'd be interested in that list -- not suggesting you spend a lot of time on this, btw, just name the first handful that come to mind.

Obviously, guys whom everybody knew were high-value -- lottery or mid-round-1 picks -- wouldn't be that kind of thing. I mean the guys others of us (and the majority of draft sites, etc.) weren't aware of.

I guess you wouldn't include saying that Vesely was going to be our franchise player, or that Singleton had what it took to be a productive starter as a rookie, or predicting that Seraphin would have a big season, or pointing to Maynor as an upgrade at back up point guard, or... ooops heading out to the movies so I'll have to stop with those -- after all if you don't get it wrong some times you are hardly likely to get it right very often!

Really look forward to this list from you, hands.

[payitforward]

Leave hands alone or I'll fly to Guadalupe or where ever you live Induveca and beat your ass!

Yeah... we need Hands to say what he thinks without fear of criticism from meanies like you!

Leave it up to me to get him with irony. Love you hands; be who you are!

[payitforward]

Shannon Brown signed by the Spurs, will continue being paid 3.5mil by Washington

Wow -- people criticize Ernie even when he's being generous! That is so wrong. Don't you realize the Spurs will feel indebted to us now, they'll do something really nice for us. In Ernie we trust, because he has a plan.

I just hope it's a retirement plan!

[AFM]

PIF is that one guy at work everyone loves to be around and is always referred to as "a real straight shooter and a jovial fellow"

[payitforward]

To me, nothing would be better than the team missing the playoffs, getting a lottery pick, and getting rid of Grunfeld and everything associated with him. Then the new GM can come in with an clean slate (almost) and get this team on track.

With the losses to San Antonio and Cleveland, I am starting to feel the same way. The Wizards are once again under .500. Wall's comments after the Cavs loss reflect the most tension of the season.

The Wizards next play Sacramento. I won't be upset if the Wizards lose, and drop three or four in a row. I never root for them to lose. However, I agree, TGW, they need a new GM and a pick in the draft.

It's almost impossible for us to miss the playoffs in the East. Wouldn't take much more than ten more wins. Then there'll be a victory celebration! We did it!

Yikes....

[payitforward]

PIF is that one guy at work everyone loves to be around and is always referred to as "a real straight shooter and a jovial fellow"

Finally! You can't imagine how long I've been waiting for you to write that, AFM. OMG, I'm so relieved....

Damn, tho! I wish I could say something nice about you! Oh... I can. No, wait a minute -- that's not you.... I'm really sorry, guy. Have a nice day.

[AFM]

Let's stay on topic, old man. This thread is about Ernie Grunfeld.