GT #56 Wizards at Cavaliers 6 PM 2/23/2014

[nuposse04]

Bring in Earl Clark as a stretch 4, see if he can space out the defenses. I wouldn't mind putting Ariza there more, but I'd rather try not to waste away Ariza's strength during the final 30 games or so.

Clark has a 9'1.5 standing reach....If only he had some defensive awareness, he could be a solid two way player >.> watch Miami get him and make him shine.

[dlts20]

I rather not play a guy though just because he's a stretch 4. I honestly dont think I rather see Clark on the floor over Nene, Booker, or Seraphin and I honestly trust Harrington's vetran savy more

[nuposse04]

I rather not play a guy though just because he's a stretch 4. I honestly dont think I rather see Clark on the floor over Nene, Booker, or Seraphin and I honestly trust Harrington's vetran savy more

Harrington is AWFUL. Still I think Clark deserves a chance based on his LAL production. CLE is a team that is hard for players to shine since Kyrie's hero ball makes it impossible to consistently develop rhythm. We've watched Wall turn Ariza and Webster into masterful floor spacers, I think Clark could undergo he same effect here.

At the very least we could give him a shot over Singleton. Not sure why that dude is still here.

[Sluggerface]

I rather not play a guy though just because he's a stretch 4. I honestly dont think I rather see Clark on the floor over Nene, Booker, or Seraphin and I honestly trust Harrington's vetran savy more

Sad thing is that in the 7 games (336 minutes of basketball) that Harrington played. Wall only saw the floor with him for 16 minutes...

[nate33]

IDK if I buy the paint clogged argument. It obviously would be better if we had a spacer but there have been some good penetrators on teams with 2 low post bigs. I still think the biggest issue is the way Flip/Witt teach the bigs how to set the pick. It isnt designed to truly pick off the guy to give Wall the blow by. Its more designed to get the big man open for the pass to come back or for the PG to take the J. Thats the biggest issue to me. When Flip was here, guys like KS wouldnt even set a pick. They would take off before the defender got there a 100% of the time so Wall had no choice but to thow it back.

Eddie Jordan isnt a great coach but one thing he made sure of is that he was going to free Gil up. Haywood would get so tight to Gil on those screens and if it didnt work the 1st time then they may do it 2 or 3 times in the same possesion until Gil had the advantage and was then one on one with the big man. Miami won a title with Wade pretty much doing that every play.

Both Wade & Gil split the double team alot also. I rememer Wall trying to do that when he 1st got here only to realize that it doesnt work with how our bigs are taught to set the pick so he never even try to split it. Wall and our guards go horizontaly off the picks. Its never attacking or going North. They go sideways because thats what the system is

Some good points on setting of picks. Haywood did a real nice job setting picks for Arenas under the EJ regime. But the big difference between Wall and Arenas is that Arenas was an insanely good shooter. Defenses had no choice but to chase him around the top side of the screen, which opened up the drive for Arenas. Wall's defenders go under the screen and cede the jumper in order to take away the drive. This is why Wall seems to take a ton of long 2's. It's because he is open from 18-20 feet on every single possession. Wall can get that shot whenever he wants.

Also, I don't think you can ignore the lack of spacing argument so easily. Let's not forget that Arenas had Jamison at PF who helped a great deal in spreading the floor.

[dlts20]

I rather not play a guy though just because he's a stretch 4. I honestly dont think I rather see Clark on the floor over Nene, Booker, or Seraphin and I honestly trust Harrington's vetran savy more

Harrington is AWFUL. Still I think Clark deserves a chance based on his LAL production. CLE is a team that is hard for players to shine since Kyrie's hero ball makes it impossible to consistently develop rhythm. We've watched Wall turn Ariza and Webster into masterful floor spacers, I think Clark could undergo he same effect here.

At the very least we could give him a shot over Singleton. Not sure why that dude is still here.

but I look at it in reverse. D''Antoni is the guy with the fluke system that has a ton of exaggreated stats. Every other year this guy is a 6'9 big man that shoots in the 30 percentile. Thats awful. Ive rarely seen something so bad. We have a traditional system. I think he is more likely to shoot in the 30's with us then he is to play like he did on LA

[dlts20]

IDK if I buy the paint clogged argument. It obviously would be better if we had a spacer but there have been some good penetrators on teams with 2 low post bigs. I still think the biggest issue is the way Flip/Witt teach the bigs how to set the pick. It isnt designed to truly pick off the guy to give Wall the blow by. Its more designed to get the big man open for the pass to come back or for the PG to take the J. Thats the biggest issue to me. When Flip was here, guys like KS wouldnt even set a pick. They would take off before the defender got there a 100% of the time so Wall had no choice but to thow it back.

Eddie Jordan isnt a great coach but one thing he made sure of is that he was going to free Gil up. Haywood would get so tight to Gil on those screens and if it didnt work the 1st time then they may do it 2 or 3 times in the same possesion until Gil had the advantage and was then one on one with the big man. Miami won a title with Wade pretty much doing that every play.

Both Wade & Gil split the double team alot also. I rememer Wall trying to do that when he 1st got here only to realize that it doesnt work with how our bigs are taught to set the pick so he never even try to split it. Wall and our guards go horizontaly off the picks. Its never attacking or going North. They go sideways because thats what the system is

Some good points on setting of picks. Haywood did a real nice job setting picks for Arenas under the EJ regime. But the big difference between Wall and Arenas is that Arenas was an insanely good shooter. Defenses had no choice but to chase him around the top side of the screen, which opened up the drive for Arenas. Wall's defenders go under the screen and cede the jumper in order to take away the drive. This is why Wall seems to take a ton of long 2's. It's because he is open from 18-20 feet on every single possession. Wall can get that shot whenever he wants.

Also, I don't think you can ignore the lack of spacing argument so easily. Let's not forget that Arenas had Jamison at PF who helped a great deal in spreading the floor.

I agree about Gil's shooting and have said the same but there is a difference between doing something not as much and not being able to do it at all. Wall basically cant drive in this system at all unless its forced. Spacing definitely helps. Infact, I use to want us to try an Al-Gortat lineup with Nene off the bench but that probably wouldnt work well either.

Still, I see guys like Rose drive with Boozer & Noah. I see Westbrook drive with Perkins & Ibaka even though Ibaka does have a lil range. Kobe is a SG but he was driving with Bynum & Gasol. I just dont like our picks. Never have and never will. Again, I think Flip was a PG with limited athleticism so he wanted an O that could play to those strengths. Billups & Cassell are great but they are made for this system. How often did you see them attack the rim? Its all jumpers with them or passes back to the big.

I still say my biggest fear is that we dump Witt and replace him with another coach who doesnt run a great system in that regard. I would love to see Wall with Scotty Brooks or something

[dlts20]

I rather not play a guy though just because he's a stretch 4. I honestly dont think I rather see Clark on the floor over Nene, Booker, or Seraphin and I honestly trust Harrington's vetran savy more

Sad thing is that in the 7 games (336 minutes of basketball) that Harrington played. Wall only saw the floor with him for 16 minutes...

the good thing is that we finally have a real PG on the 2nd unit for him to play with. He has to be willing to play team ball though and not just be the "free candy" Al that he's known for, especially if his D is going to be Jamisonesque

[nate33]

Still, I see guys like Rose drive with Boozer & Noah. I see Westbrook drive with Perkins & Ibaka even though Ibaka does have a lil range. Kobe is a SG but he was driving with Bynum & Gasol. I just dont like our picks. Never have and never will. Again, I think Flip was a PG with limited athleticism so he wanted an O that could play to those strengths. Billups & Cassell are great but they are made for this system. How often did you see them attack the rim? Its all jumpers with them or passes back to the big.

59.7% of John Wall's shot attempts this year are at the rim.

Russell Westbrook shoots 48.7% of his shot attempts from the rim this year.
Russell Westbrook shot 52.6% of his shot attempts from the rim last year.

Derrick Rose shot 52.9% of his shot attempts from the rim two years ago when he was healthy. It was just 42.1% this year.

[nuposse04]

I rather not play a guy though just because he's a stretch 4. I honestly dont think I rather see Clark on the floor over Nene, Booker, or Seraphin and I honestly trust Harrington's vetran savy more

Harrington is AWFUL. Still I think Clark deserves a chance based on his LAL production. CLE is a team that is hard for players to shine since Kyrie's hero ball makes it impossible to consistently develop rhythm. We've watched Wall turn Ariza and Webster into masterful floor spacers, I think Clark could undergo he same effect here.

At the very least we could give him a shot over Singleton. Not sure why that dude is still here.

but I look at it in reverse. D''Antoni is the guy with the fluke system that has a ton of exaggreated stats. Every other year this guy is a 6'9 big man that shoots in the 30 percentile. Thats awful. Ive rarely seen something so bad. We have a traditional system. I think he is more likely to shoot in the 30's with us then he is to play like he did on LA

Well, if we're dumb like the cavs (knowing randy this is a possibility) I would hope we don't play him at the 3. He can't be a SF but he has enough skill and ability to be a decent stretch 4. I do know Pringles inflates guys but it isn't like running a traditional offense here is doing wonder's for our offensive firepower. Floor spacing would do wonders for Nene/Gortat/Seraphin. Harrington doesn't seem like a better option right now and having an extra body certainly would not hurt. Especially someone with athleticism.

All harrington has right now is moxy, which, I guess is nice.

[Illmatic21]

Will we see Otto tonight? I wonder


The East is tightening up, this is a must win to get back to .500 and show that we're serious.. if they lose this game I'm done

[Illmatic21]

Wizards offense is ugly.. hard to watch

[dlts20]

Still, I see guys like Rose drive with Boozer & Noah. I see Westbrook drive with Perkins & Ibaka even though Ibaka does have a lil range. Kobe is a SG but he was driving with Bynum & Gasol. I just dont like our picks. Never have and never will. Again, I think Flip was a PG with limited athleticism so he wanted an O that could play to those strengths. Billups & Cassell are great but they are made for this system. How often did you see them attack the rim? Its all jumpers with them or passes back to the big.

59.7% of John Wall's shot attempts this year are at the rim.

Russell Westbrook shoots 48.7% of his shot attempts from the rim this year.
Russell Westbrook shot 52.6% of his shot attempts from the rim last year.

Derrick Rose shot 52.9% of his shot attempts from the rim two years ago when he was healthy. It was just 42.1% this year.

yeah but I dont feel those numbers tell the complete story. My point is the ability to get to the rim in the halfcourt with a reasonable shot. Wall is always near the top of the leageu in fast break points so that helps. Both Westbrook & Rose have chosen to take alot of J's because they are jumper happy guys but their system allows them to get to the rim with a reasonable shot. I feel like when Wall is at the rim, most of the time its still not a reasonable shot, like which was shown on the vid. Its like a forced attack.

Those numbers remind me of Gil's numbers. Gil played in the exact same system under EJ but before he reached star status, he became big by attacking the rim non stop. Then after he hit a couple of 3's he fell in love with the jumper. Rose & Westbrook did the same but the system is still the system and then can get good looks at the rim if they choose to take it. I dont feel like Wall can for the most part and I also think if he had a system where he could, then those numbers would be even higher

[Sluggerface]

Still, I see guys like Rose drive with Boozer & Noah. I see Westbrook drive with Perkins & Ibaka even though Ibaka does have a lil range. Kobe is a SG but he was driving with Bynum & Gasol. I just dont like our picks. Never have and never will. Again, I think Flip was a PG with limited athleticism so he wanted an O that could play to those strengths. Billups & Cassell are great but they are made for this system. How often did you see them attack the rim? Its all jumpers with them or passes back to the big.

I don't think those are very good cases. With the exception of Perkins, Bynum, and Noah, all of those players you mentioned are excellent from 15+ feet, and just excellent offensive players in general. (Yea, I include ibaka in that list who's criminally underrated imo.)

[nate33]

Still, I see guys like Rose drive with Boozer & Noah. I see Westbrook drive with Perkins & Ibaka even though Ibaka does have a lil range. Kobe is a SG but he was driving with Bynum & Gasol. I just dont like our picks. Never have and never will. Again, I think Flip was a PG with limited athleticism so he wanted an O that could play to those strengths. Billups & Cassell are great but they are made for this system. How often did you see them attack the rim? Its all jumpers with them or passes back to the big.

59.7% of John Wall's shot attempts this year are at the rim.

Russell Westbrook shoots 48.7% of his shot attempts from the rim this year.
Russell Westbrook shot 52.6% of his shot attempts from the rim last year.

Derrick Rose shot 52.9% of his shot attempts from the rim two years ago when he was healthy. It was just 42.1% this year.

yeah but I dont feel those numbers tell the complete story. My point is the ability to get to the rim in the halfcourt with a reasonable shot. Wall is always near the top of the leageu in fast break points so that helps. Both Westbrook & Rose have chosen to take alot of J's because they are jumper happy guys but their system allows them to get to the rim with a reasonable shot. I feel like when Wall is at the rim, most of the time its still not a reasonable shot, like which was shown on the vid. Its like a forced attack.

Those numbers do tell the complete story. They just conflict with your "gut feel" so you are choosing to ignore them. You cannot seriously believe that Westbrook and Rose can get to the rim whenever they want but instead choose to take jumpers.

I really don't think you can make a fair case that Wall's inability to get to the rim as often as you'd like is due to the system. The numbers say that Wall actually gets to the rim quite often. His at rim frequency would be even higher if he simply cut out his long 2's early in the shot clock (which I think he has reduced a fair bit of late). Those long 2's aren't a fault with the system.

[dlts20]

Still, I see guys like Rose drive with Boozer & Noah. I see Westbrook drive with Perkins & Ibaka even though Ibaka does have a lil range. Kobe is a SG but he was driving with Bynum & Gasol. I just dont like our picks. Never have and never will. Again, I think Flip was a PG with limited athleticism so he wanted an O that could play to those strengths. Billups & Cassell are great but they are made for this system. How often did you see them attack the rim? Its all jumpers with them or passes back to the big.

59.7% of John Wall's shot attempts this year are at the rim.

Russell Westbrook shoots 48.7% of his shot attempts from the rim this year.
Russell Westbrook shot 52.6% of his shot attempts from the rim last year.

Derrick Rose shot 52.9% of his shot attempts from the rim two years ago when he was healthy. It was just 42.1% this year.

where are you getting those numbers from anyways? Looks like I only see like 30 something percent at the rim for Wall

[nate33]

NBA.com

[keynote]

Zeller and Thompson have erased the Wizards early lead. They look a lot quicker than Nene and Gortat tonight.

[queridiculo]

Almost all of Clevelands points inside, while Washington has been shooting one jumper after another since opening a 8-2 lead.

[RustyMagoo]

11-0 runs don't faze Wittman.