2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II

[pipfan]

I want to know if any of you think Noah could get some MVP votes (I think they vote thru 5th place). He is the very definition of "valuable". Obviously, he is not a top 10 player, but his value to his team-who should get HCA-is as high as just about anyone outside of KD and LBJ.

The Bulls run their offense thru him, his energy level is inspirational (literally-it inspires his teammates), he should win the DPOY over Hibbert and he is one of the best leaders in the league. His intangibles are as high as anyone.

So, could Noah get some 4th or 5th place votes?

[bondom34]

I want to know if any of you think Noah could get some MVP votes (I think they vote thru 5th place). He is the very definition of "valuable". Obviously, he is not a top 10 player, but his value to his team-who should get HCA-is as high as just about anyone outside of KD and LBJ.

The Bulls run their offense thru him, his energy level is inspirational (literally-it inspires his teammates), he should win the DPOY over Hibbert and he is one of the best leaders in the league. His intangibles are as high as anyone.

So, could Noah get some 4th or 5th place votes?

I could see it for sure. He's in a big market, playing really well, and carrying that team. Plus, according to BBR it looks like he got a 5th place vote last year, and I don't think that he was nearly as valuable last season as this season. I think a few votes would be made for him in 4th/5th. Good call.

[hisairness]

Is this the MVP thread or the DPOY thread?

LeBron has proved he's one of the best defenders in the NBA, was robbed of DPOY at least twice. That's enough this about the MVP.

And if you want to talk defense on a MVP race yes LeBron he's a lot better than Kevin Durant on D. Of course a bunch of guys will tell you no, but those are the ones who would put LeBron in the same class as Bargnani or current Stoudemire, so there is no need to argue.

Hyperbole much?
So, stating that Durant has played better defense this season= Lebron is a defensive liability like Bargnani or Stoudemire. Nice logic.

And saying Lebron was robbed twice of DPOY says more about your bias than anything Lebron detractors can say about his defense.

[ShowTimeERA]

I never understood the Lebron for DPOY talk. How in the world is a player the best defensive player in the league when he isn't even the best defensive wing in the NBA? It still baffles me when I hear someone saying that, but nonetheless I shouldn't be surprised given "who" those that believe it ARE.

[LBJ-ITALY]

I never understood the Lebron for DPOY talk. How in the world is a player the best defensive player in the league when he isn't even the best defensive wing in the NBA? It still baffles me when I hear someone saying that, but nonetheless I shouldn't be surprised given "who" those that believe it ARE.

Well, we all know that you will never give any credit to Lebron anyway, so your opinion doesn't matter at all! hater

[Antrim]

I never understood the Lebron for DPOY talk. How in the world is a player the best defensive player in the league when he isn't even the best defensive wing in the NBA? It still baffles me when I hear someone saying that, but nonetheless I shouldn't be surprised given "who" those that believe it ARE.

Right on point. I mean, it happens everyday that you see a 6'9" guy shutting down 6' PG's and 7' PF/C's.

[MiltownHawkeye]

I never understood the Lebron for DPOY talk. How in the world is a player the best defensive player in the league when he isn't even the best defensive wing in the NBA? It still baffles me when I hear someone saying that, but nonetheless I shouldn't be surprised given "who" those that believe it ARE.

Right on point. I mean, it happens everyday that you see a 6'9" guy shutting down 6' PG's and 7' PF/C's.

How often does either of those things even happen wrt Lebron, in a vacuum or in comparison to other wing defenders? There's a difference between D-ing someone up for a few possessions/the end of the game and saying that guy is able to play lockdown defense on all 5 positions on a regular basis.

[Antrim]

I never understood the Lebron for DPOY talk. How in the world is a player the best defensive player in the league when he isn't even the best defensive wing in the NBA? It still baffles me when I hear someone saying that, but nonetheless I shouldn't be surprised given "who" those that believe it ARE.

Right on point. I mean, it happens everyday that you see a 6'9" guy shutting down 6' PG's and 7' PF/C's.

How often does either of those things even happen wrt Lebron, in a vacuum or in comparison to other wing defenders? There's a difference between D-ing someone up for a few possessions/the end of the game and saying that guy is able to play lockdown defense on all 5 positions on a regular basis.

So what LeBron needs to do is shut down the star player -no matter what position they play- in EVERY possession, during RS games, PO games, Olympics games and World Championship games, while at the same time acting like the focal point of his team's offense, as the point guard and main scorer.

You know what's the problem with this logic? That NO ONE has ever done any of this in history. So criticizing LeBron for not doing it, even though he's probably come the closest, is pretty ridiculous.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Right on point. I mean, it happens everyday that you see a 6'9" guy shutting down 6' PG's and 7' PF/C's.

How often does either of those things even happen wrt Lebron, in a vacuum or in comparison to other wing defenders? There's a difference between D-ing someone up for a few possessions/the end of the game and saying that guy is able to play lockdown defense on all 5 positions on a regular basis.

So what LeBron needs to do is shut down the star player -no matter what position they play- in EVERY possession, during RS games, PO games, Olympics games and World Championship games, while at the same time acting like the focal point of his team's offense, as the point guard and main scorer.

You know what's the problem with this logic? That NO ONE has ever done any of this in history. So criticizing LeBron for not doing it, even though he's probably come the closest, is pretty ridiculous.

Whoa buddy, I think you're extremely confused. I never said LeBron should have to do those all of those things, at all. wtf? I'm responding to the argument YOU put forward. Someone said LeBron is not the best wing defender in the league, and you responded by saying that LeBron shuts down PGs and Cs. What I'm asking you is if LeBron is unique for being capable of doing that, or to the extent he even does it. That's it.

Person A: "Carmelo Anthony is the best, he scores 40+ on pretty much every game."
Person B: "But I don't think Carmelo scores 40+ points THAT often, seems kind of hyperbolic..."
Person A: "SO WHAT, CARMELO SHOULD HAVE TO SCORE 40 POINTS EVERY SINGLE GAME? WHO CAN BE EXPECTED TO DO THAT"

that's basically what you're doing...

[Antrim]

Whoa buddy, I think you're extremely confused. I never said LeBron should have to do those all of those things, at all. wtf? I'm responding to the argument YOU put forward. Someone said LeBron is not the best wing defender in the league, and you responded by saying that LeBron shuts down PGs and Cs. What I'm asking you is if LeBron is unique for being capable of doing that, or to the extent he even does it.

This is what you said:

How often does either of those things even happen wrt Lebron, in a vacuum or in comparison to other wing defenders? There's a difference between D-ing someone up for a few possessions/the end of the game and saying that guy is able to play lockdown defense on all 5 positions on a regular basis.

I didn't think you were asking, but implying that LeBron does not do any of these things regularly. I was pointing out that no one has ever done all these things regularly, not just him.

I think it's pretty obvious he is unique in NBA history as a defender.

[Joao Saraiva]

I never understood the Lebron for DPOY talk. How in the world is a player the best defensive player in the league when he isn't even the best defensive wing in the NBA? It still baffles me when I hear someone saying that, but nonetheless I shouldn't be surprised given "who" those that believe it ARE.

So what wings are better than him?

[Joao Saraiva]

Is this the MVP thread or the DPOY thread?

LeBron has proved he's one of the best defenders in the NBA, was robbed of DPOY at least twice. That's enough this about the MVP.

And if you want to talk defense on a MVP race yes LeBron he's a lot better than Kevin Durant on D. Of course a bunch of guys will tell you no, but those are the ones who would put LeBron in the same class as Bargnani or current Stoudemire, so there is no need to argue.

Hyperbole much?
So, stating that Durant has played better defense this season= Lebron is a defensive liability like Bargnani or Stoudemire. Nice logic.

And saying Lebron was robbed twice of DPOY says more about your bias than anything Lebron detractors can say about his defense.

Can you read? I never said that. So that is YOUR logic. But yes LeBron is better than KD on defense and it's not close. I just said the ones that say KD is better than LeBron on D are the ones that never give him credit for anything, that say he stat pads (even if he scores 30 in the 1st 3 quarters) or that say he chocked in 2013 NBA finals when he just had a great performance in game 6 and 7, and more than one triple double in the finals.

So yeah they will say LeBron's D is like Bargnani. Nothing really surprises me anymore about that.

[Jon Connor]

How often does either of those things even happen wrt Lebron, in a vacuum or in comparison to other wing defenders? There's a difference between D-ing someone up for a few possessions/the end of the game and saying that guy is able to play lockdown defense on all 5 positions on a regular basis.

So what LeBron needs to do is shut down the star player -no matter what position they play- in EVERY possession, during RS games, PO games, Olympics games and World Championship games, while at the same time acting like the focal point of his team's offense, as the point guard and main scorer.

You know what's the problem with this logic? That NO ONE has ever done any of this in history. So criticizing LeBron for not doing it, even though he's probably come the closest, is pretty ridiculous.

Whoa buddy, I think you're extremely confused. I never said LeBron should have to do those all of those things, at all. wtf? I'm responding to the argument YOU put forward. Someone said LeBron is not the best wing defender in the league, and you responded by saying that LeBron shuts down PGs and Cs. What I'm asking you is if LeBron is unique for being capable of doing that, or to the extent he even does it. That's it.

Person A: "Carmelo Anthony is the best, he scores 40+ on pretty much every game."
Person B: "But I don't think Carmelo scores 40+ points THAT often, seems kind of hyperbolic..."
Person A: "SO WHAT, CARMELO SHOULD HAVE TO SCORE 40 POINTS EVERY SINGLE GAME? WHO CAN BE EXPECTED TO DO THAT"

that's basically what you're doing...

The difference is a huge part of defense is effort. If the situation calls for it, LeBron goes full boar and wreaks havoc on the defensive end. Melo can score 40 on any given night but in big games and big moments his level of play doesnt really increas like lebrons play on defense does. Its guaranteed.

When LeBron puts forth full effort he is absolutely the most impactful wing defender in the league. LeBron exerts so much energy doing everything on the offensive side that its unrealistic to expect him to always give his all on the defensive side when most of these games don't matter. If LeBron had someone like Iggy or Avery Bradley's role he would shut people down on a nightly basis. LeBron is far from a DPOY level this year but that has little to do with his defensive capabilities. When he wants to put forth the required effort he is absolutely the best wing defender in the game. Man to man, no, but overall, definitely.

Anyone that doesn't consider LeBron 'elite' on defense is either in denial or doesn't watch enough Heat games.

[Hero]

3 games in row dropped for OKC. They need to right the ship or KD has no chance. You can understand the last two but vs Cleavland is unacceptable. I'm sure they'll figure it out but in terms of the MVP, record is very important.

They're what? 0-4 without Perk now?

[Greatness]

Just like that, the Heat have the better record. It's gonna be extremely close the rest of the way.

[MisterHibachi]

Clearly Perk was extremely underrated.. /green?

[MisterWestside]

Playing Russell Westbrook is the best defense against Durant in the entire NBA.

[Hero]

Playing Russell Westbrook is the best defense against Durant in the entire NBA.

I thought Russ was good today. He had some good passes and played with a lot of energy.
He was a +1 and KD was a -6.

[RSCD3_]

Clearly Perk was extremely underrated.. /green?

Maybe nick collison doesnt play well against fellow white big men (-13 Today)

Sent from my SCH-I800 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[hisairness]

Is this the MVP thread or the DPOY thread?

LeBron has proved he's one of the best defenders in the NBA, was robbed of DPOY at least twice. That's enough this about the MVP.

And if you want to talk defense on a MVP race yes LeBron he's a lot better than Kevin Durant on D. Of course a bunch of guys will tell you no, but those are the ones who would put LeBron in the same class as Bargnani or current Stoudemire, so there is no need to argue.

Hyperbole much?
So, stating that Durant has played better defense this season= Lebron is a defensive liability like Bargnani or Stoudemire. Nice logic.

And saying Lebron was robbed twice of DPOY says more about your bias than anything Lebron detractors can say about his defense.

Can you read? I never said that. So that is YOUR logic. But yes LeBron is better than KD on defense and it's not close. I just said the ones that say KD is better than LeBron on D are the ones that never give him credit for anything, that say he stat pads (even if he scores 30 in the 1st 3 quarters) or that say he chocked in 2013 NBA finals when he just had a great performance in game 6 and 7, and more than one triple double in the finals.

So yeah they will say LeBron's D is like Bargnani. Nothing really surprises me anymore about that.

No reading comprehension issues here. You stated that posters who would write that Durant has played better defense are the same ppl who would make ridiculous claims like "Lebron's defense in on the level of two of the worst defenders in the league"; which in turn would be taking away any credibility from posters who believe that, again, this season Durant has played better defense than Lebron.

I believe that notion and at the same time I think Lebron has abilities to be one of the elite defenders in the league but he is overrated when discussing DPOY. BTW, we are talking this season because it's the only season that's relevant to this thread.