'14 Draft Thread - Parker Declares. List your top 4

[LUKE23]

I wonder how long my points about Wiggins freshman year production are going to be ignored. Again, to the people who call him this raw athlete with few basketball skills, and love guys like Smart and Randle over him, how do you explain Wiggins scoring as well as Randle this year, and better than Smart (as a freshman), if he's some type of athletic project? I mean the guy did average nearly 21 ppg per 40 at similar efficiency to Parker 25.0 ppg per 40). The way some talk, he scored 5 ppg this year only on fastbreak dunks.

Isn't the fact that he produced nearly identical to Randle and better than Smart in terms of freshman year production, with as much room as his game has to grow, a good thing? If not, I'm going to need explanations.

[driese0824]

obviously you always go BPA that high, but Jabari and Giannis playing together would be a mess defensively. Giannis is clearly naturally a 3. Jabari CAN play the 4, but would get abused defensively.

if our new GM watches tons of tape and has Jabari/Wiggins tied, you take Wiggins 10x/10. he'll be an all-nba defender at the 2 at the very least.

So if parker improves his D which he can seeing hez at the rip old age of 19 and becones an average D guy. Would u still take wiggins 10 out of 10.
If parker was an average D guy right now would any1 still take embiid or wiggins.
Its funny giannis isnt that good onD damn near the same age as parker and light years behind him offensively yet this board says hes untouchable

[Baddy Chuck]

If you can't get through traffic with the ball in the halfcourt, you're a jumpshooter in the NBA.

Unassisted baskets at the rim in halfcourt

Player A: 42
Player B: 41
Player C: 41 (let's give this one away, freshman season: 30)

Unassisted FG % at the rim in halfcourt

Player A: 44%
Player B: 52%
Player C: 55% (freshman season: 47%)

Which one of these guys can't get through traffic in halfcourt?

[Wise1]

Sigh. I watch the games Baddy.

[wichmae]

Sigh. I watch the games Baddy.

Here in lies the argument for analytics versus scouting. FWIW I think Parker is the clear cut #1 pick this year.

[Newz]

I wonder how long my points about Wiggins freshman year production are going to be ignored. Again, to the people who call him this raw athlete with few basketball skills, and love guys like Smart and Randle over him, how do you explain Wiggins scoring as well as Randle this year, and better than Smart (as a freshman), if he's some type of athletic project? I mean the guy did average nearly 21 ppg per 40 at similar efficiency to Parker 25.0 ppg per 40). The way some talk, he scored 5 ppg this year only on fastbreak dunks.

Isn't the fact that he produced nearly identical to Randle and better than Smart in terms of freshman year production, with as much room as his game has to grow, a good thing? If not, I'm going to need explanations.

I like Wiggins more than Parker or Smart.

But I can see why some people are concerned when I watched Wiggins. He doesn't have that great of a handle. He's not a terrible ball handler, but he doesn't seem like the traditional 'point forward' type that tends to play well at the SG/SF position these days... the type of guy who you can just put the ball in his hands and let him create either for himself or a teammate.

He also tends to take a lot of weird shots. When I watched him he was often leaning awkwardly forward or to the sides when throwing up jumpers off of the dribble.

That's not to say that stuff can't get better. I'd take him in the top 2 or 3 (I still can't decide if I like Wiggins or Exum more), but I can see why people have concerns about him. He's certainly far from a flawless prospect. I do have a hard time believing anyone could like Randle more than him... I guess I could maybe buy an argument for Smart.

[JimmyTheKid]

Thought this was interesting.

In an ESPN poll of 30 NBA executives, it was Duke's Jabari Parker who racked up more votes than both Wiggins and Embiid.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft201 ... executives

A few weeks ago I ranked Parker #1 but after allot of time spent on these forums I dropped him to #3. Seems like there is no clear #1 or we have three #1 picks in this draft.

Another reason I'm completely content as a Bucks fan for the first time in as long as I can remember. And thats a very strange and foreign, but great feeling. Kohl sells the team and gives up complete control. Check. New owners say all the right things about rebuilding the right way and breaking ground on a new arena. Check. No consensus #1 pick amongst the "experts" and scouts but, for the most part, theres a consensus top-4. Sure, every fan has pegged "their guy," but I don't know how anyone can get worked up if "their guy" isn't the selection. Its not like Lebron is coming out and we have a chance to take Darko. Its nice to be able to let it all play out without killing this franchise's every move.

[Zeezprah]

obviously you always go BPA that high, but Jabari and Giannis playing together would be a mess defensively. Giannis is clearly naturally a 3. Jabari CAN play the 4, but would get abused defensively.

if our new GM watches tons of tape and has Jabari/Wiggins tied, you take Wiggins 10x/10. he'll be an all-nba defender at the 2 at the very least.

So if parker improves his D which he can seeing hez at the rip old age of 19 and becones an average D guy. Would u still take wiggins 10 out of 10.
If parker was an average D guy right now would any1 still take embiid or wiggins.
Its funny giannis isnt that good onD damn near the same age as parker and light years behind him offensively yet this board says hes untouchable

defense really isn't something 95% of nba players improve on. you kind of get it or you don't. we've seen this time and time again.

and i'm not saying Giannis is amazing on D or untouchable (he's still extremely raw), i'm just making the point you're gonna have a problem when your two building blocks should be playing the same position. parker needs to improve his body too. wiggins is already sculpted like an NBA player.

people act like parker is this dominant scorer that will easily make up for his lack of D, but he's got plenty of issues there yet.

i'll take the defensive stud with all world potential on the offensive end and all world athleticism over all world potential on the offensive end with average D potential and average NBA body.

[Baddy Chuck]

Sigh. I watch the games Baddy.

So did I, and the guy who admittedly had a few extremely passive games still got into the lane quite a bit, converted at a good rate, got fouled at a great rate and didn't turn the ball over at a high rate.

[LUKE23]

Sigh. I watch the games Baddy.

So you've seen all the plays from both guys and processed that information completely without bias?

[Wise1]

Stats can be misleading...the eye test is what it is if you're unbiased. I have no reason not to like Wiggins...just calling it as I see it. Unassisted at the rim? Does it truly measure whether or not a ballhandler can get through traffic off of the dribble? NO. Tips, putbacks, and transition run outs are variables i'm sure.

[wichmae]

obviously you always go BPA that high, but Jabari and Giannis playing together would be a mess defensively. Giannis is clearly naturally a 3. Jabari CAN play the 4, but would get abused defensively.

if our new GM watches tons of tape and has Jabari/Wiggins tied, you take Wiggins 10x/10. he'll be an all-nba defender at the 2 at the very least.

So if parker improves his D which he can seeing hez at the rip old age of 19 and becones an average D guy. Would u still take wiggins 10 out of 10.
If parker was an average D guy right now would any1 still take embiid or wiggins.
Its funny giannis isnt that good onD damn near the same age as parker and light years behind him offensively yet this board says hes untouchable

defense really isn't something 95% of nba players improve on. you kind of get it or you don't. we've seen this time and time again.

and i'm not saying Giannis is amazing on D or untouchable (he's still extremely raw), i'm just making the point you're gonna have a problem when your two building blocks should be playing the same position. parker needs to improve his body too. wiggins is already sculpted like an NBA player.

people act like parker is this dominant scorer that will easily make up for his lack of D, but he's got plenty of issues there yet.

i'll take the defensive stud with all world potential on the offensive end and all world athleticism over all world potential on the offensive end with average D potential and average NBA body.

Actually most people would entire disagree with this. If the raw ability is there defense is 90% effort and principle. With all the knocks Jabari gets defensively Lord Embiid is just as raw. Sure he blocks shots but his rotations and principles are very poor. He also might have just bit on another pump fake from someone in the stands from three months ago. All these guys are teenagers and will need work. Personally Ill go with Parker.

[LUKE23]

Newz, I don't even necessarily disagree with that. My point is, if he's already producing as well as the guys mentioned without having refined his jump shooting or ball handling, doesn't that show his room for growth? Especially factoring in that his defensive impact will be immense? Or are people making an assumption that he won't improve those areas?

[Wise1]

Sigh. I watch the games Baddy.

So you've seen all the plays from both guys and processed that information completely without bias?

I've watched enough of Wiggins to form my own opinion. Yes.

[skones]

i'll take the defensive stud with all world potential on the offensive end and all world athleticism over all world potential on the offensive end with average D potential and average NBA body.

I guess the issue here is seeing that "all world potential" on the offensive end with Wiggins. Given his skill set, I think he's got a definite ceiling on that end of the floor. It's easy to over-value a guy on that end of the floor because of his physical profile.

[wichmae]

And I thought we were still talking about Embiid. Totally misread that one.

[Zeezprah]

Actually most people would entire disagree with this. If the raw ability is there defense is 90% effort and principle. With all the knocks Jabari gets defensively Lord Embiid is just as raw. Sure he blocks shots but his rotations and principles are very poor. He also might have just bit on another pump fake from someone in the stands from three months ago. All these guys are teenagers and will need work. Personally Ill go with Parker.

common misconception imo. people say the same things about QBs and accuracy. "well he's got the arm, he just needs work on the accuracy part". when that never happens.

i'm honestly struggling thinking of an NBA player who had defensive concerns coming in who became anything more than an adequate defender.

[Newz]

Newz, I don't even necessarily disagree with that. My point is, if he's already producing as well as the guys mentioned without having refined his jump shooting or ball handling, doesn't that show his room for growth? Especially factoring in that his defensive impact will be immense? Or are people making an assumption that he won't improve those areas?

Oh, I completely agree that Wiggins has a very high upside. It seems like a given that he is going to be at least an above average defender with a chance to be a great defender. I really like the form on his jump shot and the 'team concept' that he approaches the game with as he does not seem selfish at all. I also think he produced well as a Freshman and I think some people's concept of how good these guys should be at 19 is distorted.

I'm just saying I get where the concerns from, but those concerns wouldn't stop me from taking him second or third (I'd still take Embiid first).

I get the concerns with his handle and as a 'point forward'. I also get the concerns that he doesn't have the drive to be great or whatever... but the thing that really matters is that he has the talent and tools to be great. That's why you are picking him that early on.

[wichmae]

Actually most people would entire disagree with this. If the raw ability is there defense is 90% effort and principle. With all the knocks Jabari gets defensively Lord Embiid is just as raw. Sure he blocks shots but his rotations and principles are very poor. He also might have just bit on another pump fake from someone in the stands from three months ago. All these guys are teenagers and will need work. Personally Ill go with Parker.

common misconception imo. people say the same things about QBs and accuracy. "well he's got the arm, he just needs work on the accuracy part". when that never happens.

i'm honestly struggling thinking of an NBA player who had defensive concerns coming in who became anything more than an adequate defender.

Football analogies really dont apply here. Its relatively common knowledge defense is 90% effort and coaching.

[Bernman]

I wonder how long my points about Wiggins freshman year production are going to be ignored. Again, to the people who call him this raw athlete with few basketball skills, and love guys like Smart and Randle over him, how do you explain Wiggins scoring as well as Randle this year, and better than Smart (as a freshman), if he's some type of athletic project? I mean the guy did average nearly 21 ppg per 40 at similar efficiency to Parker 25.0 ppg per 40). The way some talk, he scored 5 ppg this year only on fastbreak dunks.

Isn't the fact that he produced nearly identical to Randle and better than Smart in terms of freshman year production, with as much room as his game has to grow, a good thing? If not, I'm going to need explanations.

Your points are going to be ignored as long as they are invalid.

Wiggins was not better than Smart from an advanced statistical standpoint. It wasn't even close. Smart's PER was 27.2 to Wiggins' 21.6. The gap was even bigger in some other advanced, comprehensive stats.

Sure, if you want to cherry pick scoring, ignore roles, and the fact that even neutral announcers were acknowledging Wiggins was getting star calls to artificially boost his point totals and efficiency, Wiggins may have had a marginal advantage.

But even just sticking to offense, what about passing? Wiggins doesn't do it when he drives, Smart does sometimes. That's one of the biggest reasons Wiggins is considered raw. He's not going to get bail outs from the ref on a wild spin because he was surprised the defender was there, and when he sees them a little ahead of time he's not going to be able to score right over them. Most wings are tall like him and teams have 7 footers in the paint. He'll have to make adjustments in the pros like anticipate where defenders and teammates will be on drives to aid an offense overall.

Wiggins was the worse player this year. He'd be drafted over Smart on potential (inexperience + size + athleticism).