Officiating in the NBA

[MEDIC]

I agree with some others in this thread. Even though the foul count overall was equal, it didn't seem equal because of the way the game was managed.

A lot of little touch fouls called on the Raptors. It seemed like whenever the Raps got a bit of a lead, the refs started blowing the whistle every trip down the floor against them.

Also people mention the turnovers.....JV had 6 turnovers, but I thought some of them were obvious fouls. When an obvious foul gets missed & ends up in a turnover, that has a huge impact on the game.

I remember one play early where JV got hammered, Nets get the ball, then they call a little touch foul on Ross on the other end. I was like WTF was that.

[Torontos_raptor]

We need to come to terms with whether we truly believe there's a conspiracy vs the Raps. If there is, there is no point following this team. If not, then stop it.

Cathal Kelly had an article today that's also a disservice to the game and makes puckheads think the NBA is a farce, with talk of star calls and the Raps not getting a fair shake. This just isn't good for the game to have this as a key conversation point.

I really don't care how this looks to puckheads and how it might affect their intentions to watch basketball going forward. What does matter is that this subject is finally getting mainstream attention. We've been clamoring for this since the season began, now that we get it we're suddenly saying it's overkill. In my eyes the more attention this gets the better.

Up until now the refing issue has been a niche subject among a small subset of the wider sports audience in the GTA. With the exposure this is getting within mainstream Toronto media it brings this topic to the forefront and also to the faces of NBA execs, who frankly up until now didn't have anyone of significance breathing down their necks. Now they have the entire media of the 4th largest market in North America all over them. I don't see anything but positives coming out of this.

[Patman]

I'm not sure what was said, but I'll chime in with the Donaghy/NBA situation. Obviously, you can't completely trust a man who got involved in gambling operations as a referee. But I believe the NBA used him as a scapegoat, and tried to direct all the negative attention for NBA referees towards him. Things that he's said in interview or in his books still ring true today if you pay attention to how the game is officiated.

If I was a gambler, I would definitely take Donaghy's tips, as he knows how refs act or are told to act.

[JN]

It doesn't help that Devin it has become a biased super homer who thinks every non call or call is horrible. It's untolerable when you are actually trying to watch a game.

[Clementine9]

We need to come to terms with whether we truly believe there's a conspiracy vs the Raps. If there is, there is no point following this team. If not, then stop it.

Cathal Kelly had an article today that's also a disservice to the game and makes puckheads think the NBA is a farce, with talk of star calls and the Raps not getting a fair shake. This just isn't good for the game to have this as a key conversation point.

I really don't care how this looks to puckheads and how it might affect their intentions to watch basketball going forward. What does matter is that this subject is finally getting mainstream attention. We've been clamoring for this since the season began, now that we get it we're suddenly saying it's overkill. In my eyes the more attention this gets the better.

Up until now the refing issue has been a niche subject among a small subset of the wider sports audience in the GTA. With the exposure this is getting within mainstream Toronto media it brings this topic to the forefront and also to the faces of NBA execs, who frankly up until now didn't have anyone of significance breathing down their necks. Now they have the entire media of the 4th largest market in North America all over them. I don't see anything but positives coming out of this.

I think it is important to remember it's not a Raptors problem though. It's an NBA problem. We aren't the only ones who have been at the receiving end of some blatantly bad refereeing. There doesn't necessarily need to be a conspiracy either. It could just be that basketball is really difficult to call because there's a ton of room for subjective interpretation... it could be related to biases that referees don't even know they have. For example, if you assume a player is very good then you might be primed to give them the benefit of doubt in a situation and you don't even realize you're doing it. It could be that referees are poorly trained or just not good at their jobs. None of it has to be deliberate but I definitely think the NBA has a refereeing problem.

I'm not sure how much of a factor it was in game 1. I wasn't sitting there wondering about all the missed calls. There were definitely calls where I thought WTF but that's typical to any NBA game. The only thing I thought was REALLY dumb was the no foul calls against Brooklyn in the 4th. That really is mind-boggling and anyone who watches or plays basketball should find that unbelievable.

[EFF3KT]

Not sure if anyone's still listening but Casey finished 5th in COY votes apparently.

[DG88]

Not sure if anyone's still listening but Casey finished 5th in COY votes apparently.

Pop won it

[Rhythm043]

Game #1 was officiated fine. FT's attempts were almost identical.

Raps didn't deserve to win.

Again, it's not about FT totals but when the fouls are called.

No fouls in the 4Q by Brooklyn? Okaaaaayyyy. Sure.

Exactly, anytime a Raptors run was brewing, a foul was called to ruin any flow. Questionable fouls. Too many fouls called on both sides really.

[Steelo Green]

You have to work the argument both ways.

Vasquez took a three and got fouled, even though that play could be seen as a no call because he stuck his legs out. the charge Lowry took yesterday was a no call in the OKC game, Demar did his usual no space just going to throw it up and got to the line that way.

There were mistakes both ways but to me they are negligible.

Which is an argument I can start to get behind. I just don't like these broad statements about turnovers and free throws when those are totally related to how referees are calling the game (even if they're even) and which neglect the important factor of the timing of the calls, number of fouls a player has, and that sort of thing.

When I stated those things I meant the ones that we literally shat the bed. So many jaw dropping TOs. There were obviously those related to no calls, but a good chunk were some of the worst I've seen all season.

Playoff jitters, we get tonight and I'm fully confident it's 2-2 coming back to TO

[ghuytro]

If you look at the turnover stats, you can see that the entire Raptors starting lineup turned the ball over way more than usual:

Code: Select all

                                   TOV %      
                     Reg Season     Game 1      Difference
Kyle Lowry            13.4%          19.5%        46%
Demar Derozan          9.5%          15.4%        62%
Jonas Valanciunas     14.7%          28.9%        97%
Amir Johnson          15.4%          33.3%       116%
Terrence Ross         10.0%          20.0%       100%
Team                  13.2%          17.2%        30%


In my mind, the refs let Brooklyn play an aggressive style of defense which caused the Raptors to both turn the ball over more, but score less as well.

On the other side, the refs forced the Raptors to play a looser style of defense which allowed Brooklyn to have optimal offensive efficiency.

This was the difference in the game.

[Rhythm043]

Game #1 was officiated fine. FT's attempts were almost identical.

Raps didn't deserve to win.

I agree the officiating was fine.

I agree the Raptors didn't deserve to win that game.

I completely disagree with looking at FT attempts as any indication of a fairly-officiated game. It's irrelevant and holds no weight in whether or not a game was one-sided.

The shotclock thing affected both teams but perhaps it affected the Raptors even more, you never know but it was an equal problem for both sides. Game 1 was a joke once that stupid shotclock thing happened. It ruined the whole game. I consider my ticket a waste of money now that the whole season went by with no issue but Game 1 of the playoffs just happened to have a technical malfunction. There was no problems all year until ESPN idiots showed up.

[Volcano]

If the reffing really is bad, other fans will likely point it out..see Portland/Houston.

If half of your own fans are saying the reffing wasn't lopsided, then you probably need to stop being a blind homer.

I also haven't seen anyone point out a single missed call in the 4th yet.

[kingcns187]

Definitely good to see Toronto media going off on the refs but Blair just said the ref crew we have tonight favours the home team. Shouldn't be so lop sided tonight. PUT YOUR MONEY ON THE RAPS MONEY LINE TONIGHT!! LOL

Raps are almost 2 to 1 favourites

ML is at -200. Spread -4.5(-117).

Net +4.5 (+100)
Nets +1.5 (+150)
Nets +7.5(-166)

Looks like Vegas thinks Raps cover -4.5 but don't win by more than 7.

Personally, I like them for the cover on the spread.

basketball and football are the two worst sports to bet on because they are the only two sports that can be influenced by the referees. If you want to make money, bet on hockey and baseball.

[g.muresan]

If the reffing really is bad, other fans will likely point it out..see Portland/Houston.

If half of your own fans are saying the reffing wasn't lopsided, then you probably need to stop being a blind homer.

I also haven't seen anyone point out a single missed call in the 4th yet.

It's not about being a homer, just call it both ways and make the playing field even. If there is home court advantage, then give it to the other team too.

[kieferli]

Im not going to blame the refs when we had so many turnovers, Demar was inefficient, Amir was injured, we shot terrible from 3 (so did BKN), Jonas missed a few bunnies, etc etc.

Again, people keep bringing up the turnovers as though this is an argument killer. Of course a bunch of those can be blamed only on the Raptors. But when Ross applies perimeter pressure similar to the level Brooklyn did, he gets called for fouls and gets taken out of the game. Williams got an offensive foul call for throwing himself on the ground and holding his face when he ran into Lowry while trying to intercept a pass (applying perimeter pressure). Jonas had a turnover where he had the ball near the baseline and one of the Nets (may have been Anderson) just swiped down across his arms and knocked the ball out of his hands. Jonas had another turnover after Demar blocked Johnson's shot and he went to save the ball from going out of bounds. Garnett gave him a shove to make sure he'd go out.

Turnovers are completely related to how the game is called when one team is allowed a certain level of contact and the other team isn't.

Again, I haven't done a tally or really taken a look at how the calls went overall so I'm not taking sides. But let's not dismiss people's arguments with weak retorts like the FT attempts were even or we just had too many turnovers, as though those are somehow unrelated to bad refereeing and objective measurements of a team's performance regardless of the refs.

Well said

[Spacing]

Raps are almost 2 to 1 favourites

ML is at -200. Spread -4.5(-117).

Net +4.5 (+100)
Nets +1.5 (+150)
Nets +7.5(-166)

Looks like Vegas thinks Raps cover -4.5 but don't win by more than 7.

Personally, I like them for the cover on the spread.

basketball and football are the two worst sports to bet on because they are the only two sports that can be influenced by the referees. If you want to make money, bet on hockey and baseball.

I make 90% of my bets on basketball but I see your point. I'd much rather my money be bet on a sport that i have knowledge of.

FWIW, Soccer is a very good sport to bet on especially EPL and Champions League.

[tommer]

Especially in the playoffs there are potential fouls on almost every action, most of which goes uncalled. In particular illegal screens & hand-checking. I'm very comfortable saying BKN is better at getting away with those than we are.

[Prokorov]

Game #1 was officiated fine. FT's attempts were almost identical.

Raps didn't deserve to win.

Again, it's not about FT totals but when the fouls are called.

No fouls in the 4Q by Brooklyn? Okaaaaayyyy. Sure.

first 10 minutes of the 4th quarter:

1 foul against the nets (williams, charging)
2 Fouls against the raptors (Patterson, Vazques - neither argued the call)

the last 2 minutes the only foul calls where intentional fouls on the raptors to send the nets to the line. I really dont see this crazy 1 sided officiating you speak of in the 4th.

[Prokorov]

Game #1 was officiated fine. FT's attempts were almost identical.

Raps didn't deserve to win.

Without even getting into whether the game was officiated well or not, FT attempts are a HORRIBLE way of determining that because it completely simplifies the issue.

It's also easy for refs to balance out the FT's so the discrepencies don't look as bad on the box score.

Sometimes the timing of fouls can increase momentum or completely kill it. Not saying the Refs completely took us out of the game or are the primary reason. I said before the season this team needs to man up despite whatever calls come from the refs and play through it. They need that us against the world mentality.

I agree with this. id also say it played more in the raps favor from a "timing" stand point. the only team either team was in the bonus early was the raptors in the 2nd quarter, i beleive they got in the bonus with about 9-10 minutes remaining and it helped them cut into the lead.

[ontnut]

There's a distinction between bad reffing, and bad reffing costing us the game. I think we can all agree that the reffing in game 1 was not particularly stellar. If that reffing crew/result was in game 7 of the NBA finals, I think it'd get a lot more attention to just how bad/inconsistent it was at times. But was it the reason we lost? I don't think so. Did it help us dig our own grave in game 1? Probably.