Officiating in the NBA

[Prokorov]

Having no fouls called against you in the 4th quarter? Well guess what, now you have a Toronto team that has been turning the ball over and taking tough shots all game, and now you get to ratchet up your defense - hand checking, bumping in the lane, pushing rebounders on loose balls (KG on Jonas) - and seal up the win.

You can't tell me that the refs didn't help the Nets down the stretch with the way they were calling the game. The created the best possible conditions for them to close out the game given how they had been playing all game long.

The raptors were up by 1 point late in the 4th. wouldnt you say those same conditions benefit them with the refs swallowing their whistles?

Raptors erased a 6 or 7 point net lead, took the the lead, and had momentum, and the raps werent in the bonus and the refs werent putting the nets on the FT line.

the nets won because livingston hit a huge turnaround, and pierce scored 7 points in a row. the nets made the shots late, the raptors didnt

[Patman]

Raps are almost 2 to 1 favourites

ML is at -200. Spread -4.5(-117).

Net +4.5 (+100)
Nets +1.5 (+150)
Nets +7.5(-166)

Looks like Vegas thinks Raps cover -4.5 but don't win by more than 7.

Personally, I like them for the cover on the spread.

basketball and football are the two worst sports to bet on because they are the only two sports that can be influenced by the referees. If you want to make money, bet on hockey and baseball.

Not if you know how basketball is officiated. I'm not a gambler, but I've heard some people have made a lot of money by following Donaghy's book.

[ItsDanger]

If the reffing really is bad, other fans will likely point it out..see Portland/Houston.

If half of your own fans are saying the reffing wasn't lopsided, then you probably need to stop being a blind homer.

I also haven't seen anyone point out a single missed call in the 4th yet.

Pierce wasn't called for travelling after taking 4 steps to the hoop. Watch it again.

[Prokorov]

If you look at the turnover stats, you can see that the entire Raptors starting lineup turned the ball over way more than usual:

Code: Select all

                                   TOV %      
                     Reg Season     Game 1      Difference
Kyle Lowry            13.4%          19.5%        46%
Demar Derozan          9.5%          15.4%        62%
Jonas Valanciunas     14.7%          28.9%        97%
Amir Johnson          15.4%          33.3%       116%
Terrence Ross         10.0%          20.0%       100%
Team                  13.2%          17.2%        30%


In my mind, the refs let Brooklyn play an aggressive style of defense which caused the Raptors to both turn the ball over more, but score less as well.

On the other side, the refs forced the Raptors to play a looser style of defense which allowed Brooklyn to have optimal offensive efficiency.

This was the difference in the game.

Those stats are misplaced to me... you are using an 82 game sample vs 29 different opponents, and then comparing it to a 1 game sample against 1 opponent. That seems like a really poor data set to draw any conclusions.

[lkitt0804]

Game #1 was officiated fine. FT's attempts were almost identical.

Raps didn't deserve to win.

Again, it's not about FT totals but when the fouls are called.

No fouls in the 4Q by Brooklyn? Okaaaaayyyy. Sure.

Three fouls were called in the first 10 minutes of the fourth quarter. One on Patterson. A charge on Deron. And a foul in Vasquez. The rest of the fouls on the Raptors at the end of the game was intentional. It's not like the there was a huge disparity in fouls called.

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[Prokorov]

Raps are almost 2 to 1 favourites

ML is at -200. Spread -4.5(-117).

Net +4.5 (+100)
Nets +1.5 (+150)
Nets +7.5(-166)

Looks like Vegas thinks Raps cover -4.5 but don't win by more than 7.

Personally, I like them for the cover on the spread.

basketball and football are the two worst sports to bet on because they are the only two sports that can be influenced by the referees. If you want to make money, bet on hockey and baseball.

baseball is the worst sport to bet on.... for 1, they can very easily be influenced by the umpires (strikezone not consistent both ways for example) and on any given day any pitcher can get hot and shut down even the best offense.

Football is the best to bet on. the trends and tendancies stay the same and the better teams and home field and better QBs bear a bigger influence on winning.

[KnickerBonkerz]

there was only a couple times during the game where i strongly disagreed with the refs call, and even then it didn't really seem to have a huge impact on the game. I didn't even notice that we had no FT's in the 4th until Matt mentioned it. I think that goes to show that we didn't exactly do anything to warrant a call. The Raps were not driving to the basket a whole lot and were settling for a lot of jumpers and turning the ball over. I think that had more to do with it than anything.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The game was reffed unfairly, but still close enough for the Raptors to pull out the win. If that's the worst it gets, we'll have little to complain about. We knew going in if we were to win we were going to have to steal this series from the hands of authority. That's a better attitude to have in the long-term.

[Asif16]

So what did donaghy actually say?

[basketball royalty]

My main problem with the reffing was touch fouls for our players while Paul Pierce is given the advantage of playing defense with his hands and not having to move his feet. Kills any sort of speed advantage our younger guys may have. Possibly not an anti-Raps thing but most certainly a superstar respect thing. Call the games as you see it on the floor not by the names on the back of the jerseys.

[ghuytro]

Game #1 was officiated fine. FT's attempts were almost identical.

Raps didn't deserve to win.

Again, it's not about FT totals but when the fouls are called.

No fouls in the 4Q by Brooklyn? Okaaaaayyyy. Sure.

Three fouls were called in the first 10 minutes of the fourth quarter. One on Patterson. A charge on Deron. And a foul in Vasquez. The rest of the fouls on the Raptors at the end of the game was intentional. It's not like the there was a huge disparity in fouls called.

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By the time of the 4th quarter, the tone for how the game was going to be called had already been set.

Raps were down, if they wanted any hope of getting back in the game they had to avoid doing anything that was getting whistled early in the game.

[ballercb4]

We don't have a great crowd? HUH?

If we don't have a crowd then I hate to see what he would say about Miami's "quiet crowd"

[Local_NG_Idiot]

IMO, they were pretty fair calling it the same type of fouls both ways. But I think you have to look at how the Refs set the tone on what they were going to allow and what they were not. They set that tone fairly early in the game, where they called the perimeter bumps and holds tight (DD, Ross, Livingston all in first half foul trouble on mostly non-shooting foul calls). However, they allowed a lot of contact in the paint with a lot of pushing, swiping at the ball and clutching.

JJ recognized it early and used it to his advantage by using screens well and then keeping his main defender on his hip knowing certain moves to get back in front were going to be called. He was able to get to his spots and he capitalized with FT range jumpers. DD, Lowry and Salmons didn't do the same and they didn't make the offensive or defensive adjustments to how the game was being called and struggled to find their rhythm.

Now, the question I ask myself becomes, if the Refs deciding to set that style of play through their foul calling favours BKN's small ball style and is giving them an advantage regardless of calling a similar # of fouls or the same type of fouls on both sides.

[Raps Maniac]

If you look at the turnover stats, you can see that the entire Raptors starting lineup turned the ball over way more than usual:

Code: Select all

                                   TOV %      
                     Reg Season     Game 1      Difference
Kyle Lowry            13.4%          19.5%        46%
Demar Derozan          9.5%          15.4%        62%
Jonas Valanciunas     14.7%          28.9%        97%
Amir Johnson          15.4%          33.3%       116%
Terrence Ross         10.0%          20.0%       100%
Team                  13.2%          17.2%        30%


In my mind, the refs let Brooklyn play an aggressive style of defense which caused the Raptors to both turn the ball over more, but score less as well.

On the other side, the refs forced the Raptors to play a looser style of defense which allowed Brooklyn to have optimal offensive efficiency.

This was the difference in the game.

Those stats are misplaced to me... you are using an 82 game sample vs 29 different opponents, and then comparing it to a 1 game sample against 1 opponent. That seems like a really poor data set to draw any conclusions.

Well its a mean of those 82 games, meaning the TOV % per game on average. It's on a per game basis, so it's meant to be compared to other games. Even if it's one specific team we're playing, I'm sure the data would not have deviated that much if we compared the mean TOV% from Brooklyn regular season games to this one.

[lkitt0804]

Again, it's not about FT totals but when the fouls are called.

No fouls in the 4Q by Brooklyn? Okaaaaayyyy. Sure.

Three fouls were called in the first 10 minutes of the fourth quarter. One on Patterson. A charge on Deron. And a foul in Vasquez. The rest of the fouls on the Raptors at the end of the game was intentional. It's not like the there was a huge disparity in fouls called.

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By the time of the 4th quarter, the tone for how the game was going to be called had already been set.

Raps were down, if they wanted any hope of getting back in the game they had to avoid doing anything that was getting whistled early in the game.

Unfortunately I think the refs actually changed the way they called the game in the fourth. First three quarters they were making pretty weak calls against both teams. Livingston had 4 fouls and part of the reason why Val went off was because Plumlee was taken out of the game completely on Ross like calls. I say they need to let both sides play. They were calling it too tight for both teams most of the game.

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[KnickerBonkerz]

We don't have a great crowd? HUH?

If we don't have a crowd then I hate to see what he would say about Miami's "quiet crowd"

he didn't say we don't have a "great crowd" and he even said "this is not a knock on toronto fans" were u guys listening?

He said we don't come down as hard on the officials, as in we don't boo them as much i guess? Not sure if he watched game 1 since they chanted "REF U SUCK" a bit but maybe he meant on a consistent basis iono. But what he said had nothing to do with how loud the crowd was or the turnout.

[TheBatman]

Again less so officiating more so turnovers as result of jitters.

this

[ballercb4]

We don't have a great crowd? HUH?

If we don't have a crowd then I hate to see what he would say about Miami's "quiet crowd"

he didn't say we don't have a "great crowd" and he even said "this is not a knock on toronto fans" were u guys listening?

He said we don't come down as hard on the officials, as in we don't boo them as much i guess? Not sure if he watched game 1 since they chanted "REF U SUCK" a bit but maybe he meant on a consistent basis iono. But what he said had nothing to do with how loud the crowd was or the turnout.

LOL I made the comment before I listened and then when I listened I was like "oh sh*it" ...I feel that our fans do get on the refs cases look at the last game...it takes time to change the perception of our city and fans but its happening slowly but surely. LETS GO RAPTORS...

[Rapsobsessed7]

Recap anyone?

[Patman]

My main problem with the reffing was touch fouls for our players while Paul Pierce is given the advantage of playing defense with his hands and not having to move his feet. Kills any sort of speed advantage our younger guys may have. Possibly not an anti-Raps thing but most certainly a superstar respect thing. Call the games as you see it on the floor not by the names on the back of the jerseys.

I sort of agree. But a speed advantage only counts if we have the ball in our hands. Pierce still moves towards the rim with the ball at a good speed, almost at the same speed as DD, and definitely faster than Ross (who moves East-to-West a lot without getting much closer to the rim).