Official Trade Thread - Part XXVII

[LyricalRico]

^ Another board member coming around! I love it!

Everything's all good when we win, and I hope we keep winning -- not going to be jinxing anything by being critical.

But... the big thing to think about Gortat and Ariza is that they are both UFAs, and we might not be able to re-sign them both even if we want to. And the big thing to think about Miller, even if he does play next year, is how you replace him.

You like Maynor, don't you LR? Loved the signing. Should we "come around" to that? He'll be available next Summer. You want him again? As much as you wanted him last Summer?

The team is on the verge of making a playoff run before our eyes and you're still on Eric Maynor? Wow. Besides, I never "wanted" Maynor. I just didn't rush to judgement and was willing to see how it would work out, hopeful that it would. And that's the same approach I'm taking to retaining guys like Gortat and Ariza in the offseason. Let's see how it plays out.

If you want to take a different approach, that's fine but that's on you and it won't impact my enjoyment of the current squad. Go Wiz!

[verbal8]

I'd offer Gortat probably 3 years 30 mil and not a penny more...My "hope" is that all these pretty things like "team culture" and position here are appealing...but if he's just looking for money I could see him bouncing. EG will overpay to keep him, that is a given though, that is how EG operates. Jordan Hill doesn't do much for floor spacing but he is a stop gap center that I'm ok with us running with since he does produce in the regular season. Plus he has dreads, to match with Nene of course. He's semi youngish too, but didn't he have have injury issues some time ago?

Why should Gortat make that much less than what Okafor made or Lewis before him? Why should he accept less than what Javale McGee makes?

He shouldn't, but tim duncan is making 9.3 mil according to my quick google search, I wouldn't say Gortat is worth more then timmy this season...I'm trying to equate what might be fair based on his production right now...I' probably not giving him enough because I don't know when his decline will start, but I assume sooner then later. I want to resign him but lets not break the bank, I'd say Gortat is priority 1, Ariza is 2nd. I know ariza will be in demands. Miami fans seem to think they can get him for the MLE (which I don't think is realistic).

None of the major players on the Spurs are being paid market rate, so they don't provide very good comparisons.

[barelyawake]

So, the last two games against Howard are why I would like Aldridge on the Wizards (though I'm never expecting that to happen). Aldridge is a leader and poised in a postseason setting (who also has the respect of the refs).

[Ruzious]

So, the last two games against Howard are why I would like Aldridge on the Wizards (though I'm never expecting that to happen). Aldridge is a leader and poised in a postseason setting (who also has the respect of the refs).

Houston played Asik a lot - I think to take some of the defensive burden of covering Aldridge, and Aldridge completely destroyed that strategy. He was phenominal against a really good team. When he's mixing up his offense and not just settling for jumpers, he's a legit great player.

[verbal8]

So, the last two games against Howard are why I would like Aldridge on the Wizards (though I'm never expecting that to happen). Aldridge is a leader and poised in a postseason setting (who also has the respect of the refs).

I don't really see a significant deal between the Blazers and Wizards, unless they were interested in a S&T for Gortat or Ariza. I think the Blazers are going to see how far a team built around Alridge and Lillard can go.

The one player I do see being available in that series is Asik. If Houston gets knocked out in the first round, I wonder if they look to deal Asik. They probably could trade him for 8 2nd rounders to the Sixers, but the Wizards may be able to offer the best actual player in return. Nene would work with some filler added by Houston. Nene would compliment Howard a lot better and can play Center if Howard is injured or fouled out. Another option might be an Ariza S&T. I think Ariza and Chandler are long enough, that one could play as stretch PF and create great spacing for Howard and Harden to attack the basket.

[payitforward]

I'd offer Gortat probably 3 years 30 mil and not a penny more...My "hope" is that all these pretty things like "team culture" and position here are appealing...but if he's just looking for money I could see him bouncing. EG will overpay to keep him, that is a given though, that is how EG operates. Jordan Hill doesn't do much for floor spacing but he is a stop gap center that I'm ok with us running with since he does produce in the regular season. Plus he has dreads, to match with Nene of course. He's semi youngish too, but didn't he have have injury issues some time ago?

Why should Gortat make that much less than what Okafor made or Lewis before him? Why should he accept less than what Javale McGee makes?

He shouldn't, but tim duncan is making 9.3 mil according to my quick google search, I wouldn't say Gortat is worth more then timmy this season...I'm trying to equate what might be fair based on his production right now...I' probably not giving him enough because I don't know when his decline will start, but I assume sooner then later. I want to resign him but lets not break the bank, I'd say Gortat is priority 1, Ariza is 2nd. I know ariza will be in demands. Miami fans seem to think they can get him for the MLE (which I don't think is realistic).

Duncan's making $10.3m I think, and of course he was paid much more a few years ago, but the point is that this way of looking at it is akin to the "I remember watching..." remark you made earlier. It's irrelevant.

Salaries are governed by a market, competition for a player's services. The cap is a way to limit that market, but it's only marginally effective.

Gortat at his current salary is a huge bargain. I can't see why he'd sign for e.g. $10m. He'll get more than one offer at a significant bump from that level.

As to "...fair based on his production right now...", I think you may be uderestimating his productivity. He's not one of the top 10 in the league, but he's in the group just below that -- and we'd find it hard to replace him at any salary less than e.g. what Pekovic makes ($12m).

Unless, that is, we were able to sign Jordan Hill. Even if we do re-up Gortat, I'd really like to have Hill. We have so little flexibility, however... it might be hard.

[fishercob]

The trade I keep coming back to as making sense for this roster is Martell Webster for Ersan Ilyasova.

Much like Gortat was during his final season in PHX, Ilyasova is in a terrible situation in Milwaukee, and I believe that's a big reason behind his big drop in productivity. Put him on a good team, with good teammates and a defined role, and I think you're very likely to see the guy who was putting up .550+ TS% the two previous seasons while shooting 45% (!) from three and holding his own on the boards.

Making such a deal would mean letting Booker walk, so in terms of the roster, it's effectively Booker and Webster for Ilyasova. In terms of the rotation, it's Booker/Webster for Ilyasova/Porter, which I expect to be a signficant upgrade.

While Webster was our primary backup SG this year, there's nothing that he can do -- within the confines of our offense or our defense -- that Ariza cannot. It's been said that the SG and SF are interchangeable in our system, so I am comfortable with Ariza getting some SG time. And I think Ariza would be more comfortable with that (and that it's more realistic) than asking him to pack on 15+ pounds so he can play more 4.

Glen Rice III would get a shot to make the roster and earn minutes as a backup SG, and then you also have the entire MLE and your vet minimum slots with which to target a guy like CJ Miles, Anthony Morrow, Jodie Meeks, etc if you so chose.

As has been discussed here ad nauseum, I think Ilyasova would be a great fit as a stretch 4. He'd provide so much spacing for Wall's (and MIller's) pick and roll game and he can play with either Nene or Gortat. I don't think replacing Booker with him would hurt our overall defensive efficiency (Ersan doesn't block as many shots, but is much better on the defensive boards), and I believe it would help our overall offensive efficiency, where we finished just about at the league average.

The "hidden" component of this deal is that you're replacing Webster with Porter. You don't make this deal if you think such a change would be a disaster for the rotation, but I obviously do not. I think Otto is going to be a very good player and he'll do well with Webster's minutes.

This allows us to keep Nene fresh, which we are seeing beyond any doubt in these playoffs, to be mission-critical. Bring Ersan in for Nene at the six-minute mark of the 1Q, which will give him time with the 1's and the 2's and enable keeping Nene's minutes down in the 26-28 range.

It also preserves the MLE to go after a worthwhile 4th big -- be it Jordan Hill, Okafor if he checks out medically, etc. Or you could keep Gooden as your 4th big (instead of 5th) and use the MLE to make a run a quality guard like Patty Mills.

I really like a rotation for Wall, Beal, Ariza, Nene, Gortat, Ilyasova, Porter, Miller, and some combo of Gooden and the MLE.

[verbal8]

The trade I keep coming back to as making sense for this roster is Martell Webster for Ersan Ilyasova.

Much like Gortat was during his final season in PHX, Ilyasova is in a terrible situation in Milwaukee, and I believe that's a big reason behind his big drop in productivity. Put him on a good team, with good teammates and a defined role, and I think you're very likely to see the guy who was putting up .550+ TS% the two previous seasons while shooting 45% (!) from three and holding his own on the boards.

Making such a deal would mean letting Booker walk, so in terms of the roster, it's effectively Booker and Webster for Ilyasova. In terms of the rotation, it's Booker/Webster for Ilyasova/Porter, which I expect to be a signficant upgrade.

I do see the roster balance as being much better with Ersan vs. Webster. One way to keep Booker(and stay under the luxury tax) would be to use less than the full MLE.

Also starting the season over the luxury tax doesn't mean the team will end up having to pay it. I think some cash and a future 2nd could more Booker for cap space or a TPE to an under the luxury tax team. Also dipping into the luxury tax isn't a huge deal under the current system, since you still get the payments from the big tax payers.

I may make sense to deal Booker(S&T) to acquire Ersan and the Wizards get back a future 2nd.

[Nivek]

I agree fish. That's a trade that makes a TON of sense.

[mhd]

The trade I keep coming back to as making sense for this roster is Martell Webster for Ersan Ilyasova.

Much like Gortat was during his final season in PHX, Ilyasova is in a terrible situation in Milwaukee, and I believe that's a big reason behind his big drop in productivity. Put him on a good team, with good teammates and a defined role, and I think you're very likely to see the guy who was putting up .550+ TS% the two previous seasons while shooting 45% (!) from three and holding his own on the boards.

Making such a deal would mean letting Booker walk, so in terms of the roster, it's effectively Booker and Webster for Ilyasova. In terms of the rotation, it's Booker/Webster for Ilyasova/Porter, which I expect to be a signficant upgrade.

While Webster was our primary backup SG this year, there's nothing that he can do -- within the confines of our offense or our defense -- that Ariza cannot. It's been said that the SG and SF are interchangeable in our system, so I am comfortable with Ariza getting some SG time. And I think Ariza would be more comfortable with that (and that it's more realistic) than asking him to pack on 15+ pounds so he can play more 4.

Glen Rice III would get a shot to make the roster and earn minutes as a backup SG, and then you also have the entire MLE and your vet minimum slots with which to target a guy like CJ Miles, Anthony Morrow, Jodie Meeks, etc if you so chose.

As has been discussed here ad nauseum, I think Ilyasova would be a great fit as a stretch 4. He'd provide so much spacing for Wall's (and MIller's) pick and roll game and he can play with either Nene or Gortat. I don't think replacing Booker with him would hurt our overall defensive efficiency (Ersan doesn't block as many shots, but is much better on the defensive boards), and I believe it would help our overall offensive efficiency, where we finished just about at the league average.

The "hidden" component of this deal is that you're replacing Webster with Porter. You don't make this deal if you think such a change would be a disaster for the rotation, but I obviously do not. I think Otto is going to be a very good player and he'll do well with Webster's minutes.

This allows us to keep Nene fresh, which we are seeing beyond any doubt in these playoffs, to be mission-critical. Bring Ersan in for Nene at the six-minute mark of the 1Q, which will give him time with the 1's and the 2's and enable keeping Nene's minutes down in the 26-28 range.

It also preserves the MLE to go after a worthwhile 4th big -- be it Jordan Hill, Okafor if he checks out medically, etc. Or you could keep Gooden as your 4th big (instead of 5th) and use the MLE to make a run a quality guard like Patty Mills.

I really like a rotation for Wall, Beal, Ariza, Nene, Gortat, Ilyasova, Porter, Miller, and some combo of Gooden and the MLE.

I see no incentive for the Bucks to trade Ersan for Webster. Ersan was terrible this year, but I think he's got more value than Webster. The Bucks are rebuilding, so it would make sense for them to try and get a young guy for Ersan.

[nuposse04]

Is Webster incentive enough for MIL to consider such a trade? I imagine they'd want some sort of asset coming with him. Which are very limited on our end...I guess Glen Rice JR or...Tomas (lolololool)

If they do bite i'd be a solid rotation with

Wall/Miller
Beal/GR JR(if we can keep em)
Ariza/Porter
Nene/Ersan
Gortat/...Hill(For the MLE?)

+w/e 2nd rounder gem we can dig up. Just trying to understand why MIL would do it, especially since they have Middleton and Giannis...

[fishercob]

The trade I keep coming back to as making sense for this roster is Martell Webster for Ersan Ilyasova.

Much like Gortat was during his final season in PHX, Ilyasova is in a terrible situation in Milwaukee, and I believe that's a big reason behind his big drop in productivity. Put him on a good team, with good teammates and a defined role, and I think you're very likely to see the guy who was putting up .550+ TS% the two previous seasons while shooting 45% (!) from three and holding his own on the boards.

Making such a deal would mean letting Booker walk, so in terms of the roster, it's effectively Booker and Webster for Ilyasova. In terms of the rotation, it's Booker/Webster for Ilyasova/Porter, which I expect to be a signficant upgrade.

While Webster was our primary backup SG this year, there's nothing that he can do -- within the confines of our offense or our defense -- that Ariza cannot. It's been said that the SG and SF are interchangeable in our system, so I am comfortable with Ariza getting some SG time. And I think Ariza would be more comfortable with that (and that it's more realistic) than asking him to pack on 15+ pounds so he can play more 4.

Glen Rice III would get a shot to make the roster and earn minutes as a backup SG, and then you also have the entire MLE and your vet minimum slots with which to target a guy like CJ Miles, Anthony Morrow, Jodie Meeks, etc if you so chose.

As has been discussed here ad nauseum, I think Ilyasova would be a great fit as a stretch 4. He'd provide so much spacing for Wall's (and MIller's) pick and roll game and he can play with either Nene or Gortat. I don't think replacing Booker with him would hurt our overall defensive efficiency (Ersan doesn't block as many shots, but is much better on the defensive boards), and I believe it would help our overall offensive efficiency, where we finished just about at the league average.

The "hidden" component of this deal is that you're replacing Webster with Porter. You don't make this deal if you think such a change would be a disaster for the rotation, but I obviously do not. I think Otto is going to be a very good player and he'll do well with Webster's minutes.

This allows us to keep Nene fresh, which we are seeing beyond any doubt in these playoffs, to be mission-critical. Bring Ersan in for Nene at the six-minute mark of the 1Q, which will give him time with the 1's and the 2's and enable keeping Nene's minutes down in the 26-28 range.

It also preserves the MLE to go after a worthwhile 4th big -- be it Jordan Hill, Okafor if he checks out medically, etc. Or you could keep Gooden as your 4th big (instead of 5th) and use the MLE to make a run a quality guard like Patty Mills.

I really like a rotation for Wall, Beal, Ariza, Nene, Gortat, Ilyasova, Porter, Miller, and some combo of Gooden and the MLE.

I see no incentive for the Bucks to trade Ersan for Webster. Ersan was terrible this year, but I think he's got more value than Webster. The Bucks are rebuilding, so it would make sense for them to try and get a young guy for Ersan.

I see a couple of reasons the Bucks would consider this:

1. It saves them $4.9M in salary over the next two seasons

2. Culture. I don't think there's a Wizard who wouldn't say that Webster has contributed to the culture change that has led to the success they have experienced this week. He's a guy you want around young, impressionable and talented players. I think this would be important to Milwaukee's new owners, as they start to build a roster around Giannis, their top-4 pick, and perhaps Sanders. They are going to have have their share of bad days before the good ones -- you need guys like Webster (as opposed to OJ Mayo). The fact that he can play 2 spots on the floor and make shots helps too.

[Rafael122]

The trade I keep coming back to as making sense for this roster is Martell Webster for Ersan Ilyasova.

Much like Gortat was during his final season in PHX, Ilyasova is in a terrible situation in Milwaukee, and I believe that's a big reason behind his big drop in productivity. Put him on a good team, with good teammates and a defined role, and I think you're very likely to see the guy who was putting up .550+ TS% the two previous seasons while shooting 45% (!) from three and holding his own on the boards.

Making such a deal would mean letting Booker walk, so in terms of the roster, it's effectively Booker and Webster for Ilyasova. In terms of the rotation, it's Booker/Webster for Ilyasova/Porter, which I expect to be a signficant upgrade.

While Webster was our primary backup SG this year, there's nothing that he can do -- within the confines of our offense or our defense -- that Ariza cannot. It's been said that the SG and SF are interchangeable in our system, so I am comfortable with Ariza getting some SG time. And I think Ariza would be more comfortable with that (and that it's more realistic) than asking him to pack on 15+ pounds so he can play more 4.

Glen Rice III would get a shot to make the roster and earn minutes as a backup SG, and then you also have the entire MLE and your vet minimum slots with which to target a guy like CJ Miles, Anthony Morrow, Jodie Meeks, etc if you so chose.

As has been discussed here ad nauseum, I think Ilyasova would be a great fit as a stretch 4. He'd provide so much spacing for Wall's (and MIller's) pick and roll game and he can play with either Nene or Gortat. I don't think replacing Booker with him would hurt our overall defensive efficiency (Ersan doesn't block as many shots, but is much better on the defensive boards), and I believe it would help our overall offensive efficiency, where we finished just about at the league average.

The "hidden" component of this deal is that you're replacing Webster with Porter. You don't make this deal if you think such a change would be a disaster for the rotation, but I obviously do not. I think Otto is going to be a very good player and he'll do well with Webster's minutes.

This allows us to keep Nene fresh, which we are seeing beyond any doubt in these playoffs, to be mission-critical. Bring Ersan in for Nene at the six-minute mark of the 1Q, which will give him time with the 1's and the 2's and enable keeping Nene's minutes down in the 26-28 range.

It also preserves the MLE to go after a worthwhile 4th big -- be it Jordan Hill, Okafor if he checks out medically, etc. Or you could keep Gooden as your 4th big (instead of 5th) and use the MLE to make a run a quality guard like Patty Mills.

I really like a rotation for Wall, Beal, Ariza, Nene, Gortat, Ilyasova, Porter, Miller, and some combo of Gooden and the MLE.

I see no incentive for the Bucks to trade Ersan for Webster. Ersan was terrible this year, but I think he's got more value than Webster. The Bucks are rebuilding, so it would make sense for them to try and get a young guy for Ersan.

You're not going to get a young guy. In essence, teams are going to want to trade their trash for Ersan b/c he doesn't have a lot of value, had a down year, Bucks management is in a state of flux, etc. Besides, look at their core, when healthy, Ersan probably won't get many minutes. You've got Sanders, Henson, Giannis all manning the 3-4-5 positions. On top of that, they're gonna get a high draft pick which just might be Joel Embiid burying Ersan further.

I think Webster for Ersan is fair. Hadn't really thought about it, but it would solve our immediate need for a back up 4 and he'd have 2 years left on his deal (free agent during the summer of Durant). And piggybacking off the Gooden thing, he's still getting paid by the Bucks for next year, so he can come back for the minimum and still bank $8 mil in salary.

You're prolly looking at $68 mil in total salary commitments (including Ariza and Gortat). I'd split the MLE and try and get Jodie Meeks to be the back up 2, and grab a back up center (at this point, I wouldn't mind bringing in Seraphin again, there's no one else).

[verbal8]

Is Webster incentive enough for MIL to consider such a trade? I imagine they'd want some sort of asset coming with him. Which are very limited on our end...I guess Glen Rice JR or...Tomas (lolololool)

If they do bite i'd be a solid rotation with

Wall/Miller
Beal/GR JR(if we can keep em)
Ariza/Porter
Nene/Ersan
Gortat/...Hill(For the MLE?)

+w/e 2nd rounder gem we can dig up. Just trying to understand why MIL would do it, especially since they have Middleton and Giannis...

If they did the deal, Webster should be their starting SG. It might still be Mayo, but Webster is better and could give them quality minutes as a back-up. Both Middleton and Giannis play significant minutes at another position, so there would also be minutes available at SF for Webster.

It likely comes down to who the Bucks pick with their 1st rounder. If it is Wiggins, that does leave them pretty much set at SF. Otherwise they are likely looking at a logjam between the PF/C positions. They have Sanders and John Henson. They also have a significant salary commitment to Zaza and promising Center in Raduljica. Adding a 5th big in the draft would really limit the minutes for Ersan.

[dckingsfan]

My prediction on their starting lineup next year dependent on their pick and FA spend.

Code: Select all

PG   Knight   Wolters   
SG   GA           Mayo    
SF   Middelton    Delfino   
PF   Henson   Ilyasova   
C   Sanders    Pachulia   Raduljica


So, my guess is that their moves will depend on who they draft. If they draft Embiid - it will have a ripple effect, Wiggins or Parker another different ripple effect, Randle yet another and Smart or Exum yet another.

If somehow they get Randle, I think Ilyasova is in play.

[dckingsfan]

Sorry verbal, we had the same idea

[Rafael122]

My prediction on their starting lineup next year dependent on their pick and FA spend.

Code: Select all

PG   Knight   Wolters   
SG   GA           Mayo    
SF   Middelton    Delfino   
PF   Henson   Ilyasova   
C   Sanders    Pachulia   Raduljica


So, my guess is that their moves will depend on who they draft. If they draft Embiid - it will have a ripple effect, Wiggins or Parker another different ripple effect, Randle yet another and Smart or Exum yet another.

If somehow they get Randle, I think Ilyasova is in play.

I don't think Giannis is a 2. He's either a 3 or 4.

[dckingsfan]

My prediction on their starting lineup next year dependent on their pick and FA spend.

Code: Select all

PG   Knight   Wolters   
SG   GA           Mayo    
SF   Middelton    Delfino   
PF   Henson   Ilyasova   
C   Sanders    Pachulia   Raduljica


So, my guess is that their moves will depend on who they draft. If they draft Embiid - it will have a ripple effect, Wiggins or Parker another different ripple effect, Randle yet another and Smart or Exum yet another.

If somehow they get Randle, I think Ilyasova is in play.

I don't think Giannis is a 2. He's either a 3 or 4.

He spent 37% of his time at the SG slot and 63% at SF. He defended both positions equally well.

[barelyawake]

Obviously, Webster for Ersan would help us... as long as Nene is playing like he has been. Ersan is not a Nene replacement (which is what we ultimately need).

How long do you expect Nene to be effective? And are Ersan/Gortat a defensive sieve if Nene is out? And could we get someone even better (who plays defense, can assume leadership role, etc) for the pricetag we would pay for Gortat/Ersan? And we still don't have a rim protector.

Those remain my concerns.

If we really are going after Durant, I have no problem with any roster moves made the next two years to acquire/attract him. But, I don't want Ersan to be viewed as our long term solution for a star big. That has always been my problem. He is not a leader. He doesn't play defense. He isn't a star. He doesn't have the respect of the refs in a postseason setting against the best players in the world. And our most pressing need (whom we either must draft next year or spend dollars on soon) is a rim protector, if we ever hope to drag Durant from OKC.

[WallToWall]

http://nba.si.com/2014/04/24/pau-gasol- ... ?eref=sihp

" Gasol also reiterated his philosophical differences with coach Mike D’Antoni. Gasol prefers to play a post-oriented offense at a methodical pace, while D’Antoni has wanted to feature Gasol more in pick-and-roll situations and as a facilitator in a faster-paced offense.
“I’ve never concealed the fact that D’Antoni’s style doesn’t suit my game,” Gasol wrote. “Everybody knows this. I don’t know if my decision will be swayed by whether Mike stays or leaves. Obviously, the coach is a very important factor for any team.” "

If the Gasol pipe dream had a chance, it probably doesnt anymore given the type of offense he wants to be in. Gasol may not like P+R, if I interpret his statements correctly.