2013-14 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[sp6r=underrated]

Rank the trouble the top seeds are in:

From least to most:

1. Miami
2. Clippers
3. Pacers
4. Thunder
5. Spurs
6. Mavericks
7. Bulls
8. Rockets

1. Miami didn't dominate Charlotte to the extent most expected in the first two games but nonetheless this series is over.

2. The Clippers outplayed GSW in both games including a complete smackdown in game 2. While split 1-1 they should win the series against a very talented GSW squad,

3. Indiana badly outplayed in game 1 but made up for it by controlling game 2. Their opponent is very weak and despite their second half swoon they should win in 6.

4. I think the analogy someone offered up for the Grizzlies is that they are a great gatekeeper team. Indeed, I'm not sure who has been the more successful team since 2012 amongst the Griz and Pacers. If you switched conferences we would probably think more of the Griz. Still, OKC outplayed them by a lot over the RS and a little over the first two games. They'll win in 6.

5. Out of all of the top seeds San Antonio has played the worse. They have been behind in both games a majority of the time. Their brilliant offense has gone off the rails. In game 1, the couldn't shoot and in game 2 they couldn't stop turning the ball over. They have had all this trouble despite the fact Dirk hasn't really played to his normal level. They could easily be down 0-2. Still, I think SAS wins the series. They were a better team by a real margin over Dallas all year long. This series will probably end up the way SAS-GSW did.

6. Toronto. I'll admit I don't have a strong opinion about this series.

7. Chicago. Washington hasn't outplayed them by a dramatic margin over the first two games but they're still down 0-2. I favor them over Houston for coming back because the difference between them and Washington in play over the season is larger than Houston to Portland.

8. Rockets. In actuality Houston has played better than San Antonio. Both games went down to the wire and Houston led for the majority of the time over two games. Nonetheless, Houston is down 0-2 to a team that played at their level all year long. Their defense has imploded and their best offensive player has played poorly. They are set up to be the most disappointing team of 14.

[ronnymac2]

^^^I do disagree about Indy. Even when they were rolling hot, they had a hard time beating teams that could spread them out like Golden State and Phoenix. Atlanta with Antic and Millsap does that, and they have defenders like Carroll and Millsap to slow Paul George and David West. I think Indy is in real danger here.

Note: I picked Indy before the series and still think Indy should win, but I'm wary of those predictions now.

[ronnymac2]

Aldridge is making me look like a jackass for forgetting to put him on my preliminary list. That said, the Rockets have had problems all year defending Aldridge and Blake Griffin. Those versatile power forwards really destroy them. Should have seen it coming.

Props to LMA though. I've been watching the past two games and waiting for him to calm down, but he continues making big play after big play. It's not just his turnaround jumper. It's reading when to dive for the pick-n-roll, hitting the offensive glass, upping the energy he gives on the defensive glass, recognizing when to use the attention he's getting to help others (his swing pass to Batum for a 3 in Game 1 when they were playing a little two-man game amazed me...simple, but amazing). He's playing like superman right now.

[SideshowBob]

Premlinary Ballot

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Blake Griffin
6. Lamarcus Aldridge
7. Stephen Curry
8. Kevin Love
9. Dwight Howard
10. James Harden
11. Paul George
12. Andre Iguodala
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. Roy Hibbert
15. Manu Ginobili

What a stacked year. That middle cluster is really tight and there's a huge number of guys on my mind that do fit into the bottom section (Noah's somewhere on here, Lillard deserves consideration, Thompson, Wall, Beal, etc.).

[ardee]

Premlinary Ballot

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Blake Griffin
6. Lamarcus Aldridge
7. Stephen Curry
8. Kevin Love
9. Dwight Howard
10. James Harden
11. Paul George
12. Andre Iguodala
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. Roy Hibbert
15. Manu Ginobili

What a stacked year. That middle cluster is really tight and there's a huge number of guys on my mind that do fit into the bottom section (Noah's somewhere on here, Lillard deserves consideration, Thompson, Wall, Beal, etc.).

You would put Hibbert and Manu over Anthony Davis?

[GSP]

Premlinary Ballot

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Blake Griffin
6. Lamarcus Aldridge
7. Stephen Curry
8. Kevin Love
9. Dwight Howard
10. James Harden
11. Paul George
12. Andre Iguodala
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. Roy Hibbert
15. Manu Ginobili

What a stacked year. That middle cluster is really tight and there's a huge number of guys on my mind that do fit into the bottom section (Noah's somewhere on here, Lillard deserves consideration, Thompson, Wall, Beal, etc.).

Glad someone else agrees that Manu is Spurs best player this season

[toodles23]

Premlinary Ballot

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Blake Griffin
6. Lamarcus Aldridge
7. Stephen Curry
8. Kevin Love
9. Dwight Howard
10. James Harden
11. Paul George
12. Andre Iguodala
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. Roy Hibbert
15. Manu Ginobili

What a stacked year. That middle cluster is really tight and there's a huge number of guys on my mind that do fit into the bottom section (Noah's somewhere on here, Lillard deserves consideration, Thompson, Wall, Beal, etc.).

Interesting list. Couple questions, why Lebron over Durant? Does Durant's subpar first 4 playoff games tip the scales in Lebron's favor? And Curry seems low to me, why Dirk and Lamarcus over him?

[GSP]

Premlinary Ballot

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Blake Griffin
6. Lamarcus Aldridge
7. Stephen Curry
8. Kevin Love
9. Dwight Howard
10. James Harden
11. Paul George
12. Andre Iguodala
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. Roy Hibbert
15. Manu Ginobili

What a stacked year. That middle cluster is really tight and there's a huge number of guys on my mind that do fit into the bottom section (Noah's somewhere on here, Lillard deserves consideration, Thompson, Wall, Beal, etc.).

BTW dont u think Mike Conley deserves credit? Hes at the very least right there with Lillard and Wall IMO and Goran should be somewhere there too.

Do u have Dirk, Blake and Lamarcus over Love b/c they made it to the playoffs?

[SideshowBob]

Premlinary Ballot

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Blake Griffin
6. Lamarcus Aldridge
7. Stephen Curry
8. Kevin Love
9. Dwight Howard
10. James Harden
11. Paul George
12. Andre Iguodala
13. Carmelo Anthony
14. Roy Hibbert
15. Manu Ginobili

What a stacked year. That middle cluster is really tight and there's a huge number of guys on my mind that do fit into the bottom section (Noah's somewhere on here, Lillard deserves consideration, Thompson, Wall, Beal, etc.).

You would put Hibbert and Manu over Anthony Davis?

No I wouldn't, I just totally glanced over Davis on my spreadsheet Thanks for pointing that out, as I said, I knew I was forgetting some folks.

Interesting list. Couple questions, why Lebron over Durant? Does Durant's subpar first 4 playoff games tip the scales in Lebron's favor? And Curry seems low to me, why Dirk and Lamarcus over him?

No, I had James ahead in the RS already, 4 PS games wouldn't sway me in any situation.

Have Curry and Aldridge even actually, that could go either way (think I might be willing to go higher on Curry's offense though, I'll think on that). I have him very slightly weaker on defense this season than last year. Dirk on the other hand I thought was almost in line with his prime years, granted he did play fewer minutes. Maybe I'm overrating him a tad bit.

[SideshowBob]

BTW dont u think Mike Conley deserves credit? Hes at the very least right there with Lillard and Wall IMO and Goran should be somewhere there too.

Agreed, that 10-25 area is really loaded this season IMO.

Do u have Dirk, Blake and Lamarcus over Love b/c they made it to the playoffs?

Nah, I just have those guys really close together (Curry as well). Gasol actually fits in high there somewhere even with his missed time so I forgot him as well, and the other Spurs fit in at the bottom. Brooklyn's been a pretty well-rounded team but they need some representation as well.

[GSP]

BTW dont u think Mike Conley deserves credit? Hes at the very least right there with Lillard and Wall IMO and Goran should be somewhere there too.

Agreed, that 10-25 area is really loaded this season IMO.

Do u have Dirk, Blake and Lamarcus over Love b/c they made it to the playoffs?

Nah, I just have those guys really close together (Curry as well). Gasol actually fits in high there somewhere even with his missed time so I forgot him as well, and the other Spurs fit in at the bottom. Brooklyn's been a pretty well-rounded team but they need some representation as well.

I think Pierce, Joe and Dwill are the only Nets that deserve attention. Who would u say has been better? And what about their opponents, who do u think is best player on the Raps? Lowry? Amir? Derozan?

How do u figure Wade, Westbrook and Bosh fit in there?

[Dr Positivity]

Currently

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Paul George
4. Stephen Curry
5. Blake Griffin

Going to make the Paul George case. A 21.7pt/6.8reb/3.5ast/.55 TS SF who spaces the floor is still a very good offensive season that when added to a lot more defensive value than players like Griffin, Curry, Harden make him really valuable. While that owes to his first few months, those months count and there's a reason why IND got a big enough cushion to keep the 1 seed. Plus he's been under the radar good in the playoffs.

For Lebron and Durant I have Lebron ahead right now just because of the playoff performances

[JordansBulls]

No, I had James ahead in the RS already, 4 PS games wouldn't sway me in any situation.

How so when Durant led the league in PER, WS, WS/PER 48 minutes and scoring and also won 5 more games? There is literally no way you can say Lebron was better in the season over someone else who not only had better numbers but won more games in the season. Playoffs could change that though with a title.

[E-Balla]

No, I had James ahead in the RS already, 4 PS games wouldn't sway me in any situation.

How so when Durant led the league in PER, WS, WS/PER 48 minutes and scoring and also won 5 more games? There is literally no way you can say Lebron was better in the season over someone else who not only had better numbers but won more games in the season. Playoffs could change that though with a title.

Sideshow is kinda a LeBron stan. If he had KD over him I'd be beyond shocked.

[JLei]

Don't think you can have Lebron above Durant unless the playoffs thus far have mattered to you. Durant's regular season MVP for sure.

Unless that's a projection.

Durant is likely to get knocked out before Lebron and will have worst stats than Lebron in the playoffs almost assuredly after this Memphis series.

Lebron is by far the best player now that's he's playing defense again/ and posting up more often, has an easy rode to the finals and has easy pickings along the way to put up a 31-33 PER.

Unless Durant beats Lebron in the finals I'm pretty sure Lebron will end up number 1 on most lists by the end of the season. Even if Lebron loses to the Spurs or something. Clearly the best player, better playoffs (even if it's opponent based) would do it IMO.

[MisterHibachi]

Is Durant a lock for a top 2 spot even if OKC loses to Memphis and he continues to play as bad as he has so far?

[JLei]

Is Durant a lock for a top 2 spot even if OKC loses to Memphis and he continues to play as bad as he has so far?

Unless the Clippers win the title. Yes. It would take an extraordinary circumstance for him to fall out to me.

[SideshowBob]

BTW dont u think Mike Conley deserves credit? Hes at the very least right there with Lillard and Wall IMO and Goran should be somewhere there too.

Agreed, that 10-25 area is really loaded this season IMO.

Do u have Dirk, Blake and Lamarcus over Love b/c they made it to the playoffs?

Nah, I just have those guys really close together (Curry as well). Gasol actually fits in high there somewhere even with his missed time so I forgot him as well, and the other Spurs fit in at the bottom. Brooklyn's been a pretty well-rounded team but they need some representation as well.

I think Pierce, Joe and Dwill are the only Nets that deserve attention. Who would u say has been better? And what about their opponents, who do u think is best player on the Raps? Lowry? Amir? Derozan?

How do u figure Wade, Westbrook and Bosh fit in there?

That's about it, KG's obviously much lower this year. Haven't seen enough of the Raptors to comment. Westbrook/Wade is interesting because I'm a bit conflicted as to how to rate them with the inconsistency/missed games. Bosh maybe low teens (+2.5-3.0ish overall?), same as last few years.

I really want to talk about the Clippers guys here, they've been running a 115-116 ORTG (+9ish) in the 2014 calendar year and Paul continues to shine brightly in RAPM while Griffin's really impressed me visually. I think there's good discussion to be had there.

How so when Durant led the league in PER, WS, WS/PER 48 minutes and scoring and also won 5 more games? There is literally no way you can say Lebron was better in the season over someone else who not only had better numbers but won more games in the season. Playoffs could change that though with a title.

But when have I ever suggested or implied that that's my criteria? Hell the only time I reference PER/WS is when I'm posting daily stat updates in threads; can't remember off the top of my head when I brought them up in an actual comparison.

Sideshow is kinda a LeBron stan.

Was anyone unaware of this though? Hell "kinda" is probably an understatement. At least you're here to balance me out.

[E-Balla]

Was anyone unaware of this though? Hell "kinda" is probably an understatement. At least you're here to balance me out.

I'm not that bad am I?

He's still well on his way to ending up as the best when it's all said and done if KD doesn't get his head on straight and Lamarcus (or Curry) doesn't grab the ring. KD is looking like the weakest 30 PER player right now (or 29.9 to be accurate).

[GSP]

Was anyone unaware of this though? Hell "kinda" is probably an understatement. At least you're here to balance me out.

I'm not that bad am I?

He's still well on his way to ending up as the best when it's all said and done if KD doesn't get his head on straight and Lamarcus (or Curry) doesn't grab the ring. KD is looking like the weakest 30 PER player right now (or 29.9 to be accurate).

What about Cp3?