if dirk continues to suck, does his contract drop?

[Deus]

Dirk had a good year. My guess? 4 years 45-50 million.

[avon barksdale]

Dirk had a good year. My guess? 4 years 45-50 million.

Dirk can't get more than three years

[Darren]

Unless we get any superstars (LBJ, Melo...), give Dirk what he deserves. But Dirk will have to wait until the offseason acquisition finished. By the way, Wade may become FA as well. If it is so, should we go after him?

[Pg81]

Dirk had a good year. My guess? 4 years 45-50 million.

I doubt Dirk can play this long. He had to carry the Mavericks on his own for such a long time plus his heroics in summers for the German national team, which was one of the worst internationally, have worn him out at this point. I doubt even celebrated long playing guys like Malone or Kareem could have played any longer under such demanding circumstances. Malone had Stockton for most of his career and never had to carry a team on his own while Kareem had Oscar and Magic two GOAT point guards and wasn't very successful outside of those years.
I think 2 years at about 20-25 million would be fine and I am sure he is willing to take a cut to improve the roaster even more.

Unless we get any superstars (LBJ, Melo...), give Dirk what he deserves. But Dirk will have to wait until the offseason acquisition finished. By the way, Wade may become FA as well. If it is so, should we go after him?

I so wish Dirk had the kind of help other superstars like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Wade, KG in Boston or LeBron had in his career just 2-3 seasons at least.
So sad to see such a terrific player always being on his own mostly and has to hope the role players/starters around him step up.

[Deus]

I doubt Dirk can play this long. He had to carry the Mavericks on his own for such a long time plus his heroics in summers for the German national team, which was one of the worst internationally, have worn him out at this point.

I see Dirk playing until he gets injured or turns 40. He loves the game.

[bobsquad]

The closest equivalent to Dirk's situation that we've seen under the current CBA was 36 year old Tim Duncan's free agency in 2012. I would expect Dirk to take the same 30/3 deal.

[HotrodBeaubois]

And how quickly guys abandon the best player we'll ever have.....

Sorry if Im not ready to bury the guy or lowball him on a contract based on 5 games against the best team in the league.

It's not like you and I did not have this discussion before. I said months ago that "Dirk taking less" means that he would be making less than $8 mil. Dirk taking $10 mil is market rate. But I know you think his market rate is $15 mil, but we have yet to see eye to eye about that.

I want to pay him for what he will give us in the years of his new contract and you want to reward Dirk for what he pre-lockout.

I agree I think Dirk takes $8 Million no way Dirk takes $15 Million if he wants to contend again

[sweet daddy]

Timmy signed for 3/30. It'll probably be something like that. I'd prefer 3/26 or 27, with him playing 30 minutes a game, leave something in the tank for the playoffs. He might take $9 mil a year and be happy with that. I can't see anything less than that, realistically.

[cmavswin]

I am in the group that believes he should get 3 for 30 with his first year being 9 million (or less if possible JES this is where you come in and correct me either way). This team needs a minimum of two more solid players to have a legit chance of being a contender.

[Darren]

I think Dirk can understand that. He can't get the same as Tim Duncan whose contract signed before the hard cap imposed. The so called respected salary is that you don't embarrass him by signing him to number lower than lesser players. If we can get a hand on max talent, he may agree to settle for 8M per.

I think Dallas is a good free agent choice this year because we can remain the same team with nearly half the price. All free agents agree to take less. We've strong tradition and team spirit. We've good top norch coach. We've got unselfish players. That's a great scenario for top free agents.

If we can get a quality C for Calderon, scrubs, and 1st, I like our chance to land an impact player. But the problem is there ain't many top center available for Calderon as returning piece. Maybe we can try another route to see if we can get Calderon to team far from playoff.

Our target should be: 1.Chandler 2.Hibbert(gamble) 3.Asik 4.Gortat 5.Pekovic 6.Monroe 7.McGee(gamble)
If we get other center, it looks like a failure.

I still think Brandan Wright can be effective. He's still more valuable than Blair. I can play well for second unit as PF not C. By retaining Dalembert, it's possible. I'm not sure on Blair, though. If it's minimum, I'll probably say yes for all he's done in playoff series.

As for swingman: 1.Lebron 2.Anthony 3.Stephenson 4.Deng
Beyond the list, I'd much rather have young players on the rise like James Johnson, 6-9 athletic SF with solid defense and offense that can really guard 1-4 like Matrix; Kent Bazemore, 6-5 athletic SG with solid handles, defense and speedy game. We've seen Devin Harris and Shane Larkin alongside Monta Ellis. It's like a taller Harris for that. He's a outstanding season in LAL. I wonder what salary he'll demand.

[Darren]

If Dirk can learn how to guard jump shots and Ellis learn how to shoot, we can go deep into playoff.

[Pg81]

If Dirk can learn how to guard jump shots and Ellis learn how to shoot, we can go deep into playoff.

He knows how to "guard" a jump shot, whatever you mean by that. It's just not his main job actually and the problem were our guards not being able to properly defend the Spurs P&R especially in game 7 albeit that is imho a logical consequence of the teams advanced age on average.

Furthermore Dirk was gassed playing like 40 minutes in that playoff series.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/05/4 ... -with.html

[Vinsanity_GOAT]

Quite true. No matter how bad Dirk play. We don't call him name. He's in his evening. For all he achieved (10 straight 50W seasons; 2011 Championship), we should respect him no matter what.

Yep. Pretty much. What the f has carter EVER done that's CLOSE to what Dirk has done? Lemme give you a hint: NOTHING!

You know, if you're going to address me i suggest you find it in yourself to have the common courtesy of quoting me. Unless you're afraid i'll set you straight.

With that said, comparisons based on TEAM accomplishments are completely irrelevant and nonsensical. Personal stats are the same way really (effect of teammates, coaching, etc), but let's not get too far into that, it's common sense anyway.

Let me ask you this. When the f has carter EVER been on a team that's CLOSE to what dirk had? Lemme give you a hint: NEVER!

More importantly, i was criticizing his 2014 playoff performance, not his career...

[cmavswin]

Keep it civil gentlemen. Consider this a friendly reminder.

Thanks

[Pg81]

Quite true. No matter how bad Dirk play. We don't call him name. He's in his evening. For all he achieved (10 straight 50W seasons; 2011 Championship), we should respect him no matter what.

Yep. Pretty much. What the f has carter EVER done that's CLOSE to what Dirk has done? Lemme give you a hint: NOTHING!

You know, if you're going to address me i suggest you find it in yourself to have the common courtesy of quoting me. Unless you're afraid i'll set you straight.

With that said, comparisons based on TEAM accomplishments are completely irrelevant and nonsensical. Personal stats are the same way really (effect of teammates, coaching, etc), but let's not get too far into that, it's common sense anyway.

Let me ask you this. When the f has carter EVER been on a team that's CLOSE to what dirk had? Lemme give you a hint: NEVER!

More importantly, i was criticizing his 2014 playoff performance, not his career...

Dirk never had a great cast around him. Even the 2011 team was by any standard not a normal title contender which usually takes at least one superstar and one all star like early 2000 Lakers.
Heck, the Pistons had 3-4 All Stars on their team and that was already considered an anomaly since no one was a superstar of Shaqs, KGs, Duncans or Kobes caliber.
You can frown upon using "team accomplishments" but the point made is a fact, Dirk took a mediocre/avarage Mavericks team to eleven 50+ win seasons consecutively in the loaded western conference, won MVP and FMVP and a title as the main player of the team and is only 1 of 4 players in history to average 25/10 in the playoffs and he is one of the best elimination players ever averaging 28/12 on one of the best efficiencies of all time.
Even if you take away team accomplishments which is silly, they are part of a legacy, his stats simply blow out Carter's by quite a bit.
Carter is lucky to play only half of what Dirk plays this season and does not have to carry a team for quite some time now.
Heck even in New Jersey he had a prime Jason Kidd sharing quite some burden off him.
Tell me when had Dirk ever had a player in his prime of Kidd's prowess next to him? Best team Dirk ever had was 2003 Mavericks with Finley and Nash but neither of them were as good as Kidd.
Your criticism of Dirk for this playoff is pretty shortsighted. He went against the best team in the league which happens to be also one of the best defensive teams. Every star player struggles there, even Jordans FG% took a hit against Pistons and Gary Payton.
As for defense, he is 1 year removed from a major knee surgery and is close to be 36 and the problem was team defense, not Dirk specifically. Heck the reason Duncan looks so good at 38 is because he has such a good young team around him with a lot of well fitting players for the Spurs system, unlike Dirk who as usual has to play with misfits and unwanted or past their prime players.
In fact I dare say that Carter's Nets team were a better team than Dirk's 2006 finals team.

As to your criticism of this playoff run, nothing surprising happened. Spurs made a big effort to contain Dirk rarely leaving him open. He could have shot a bit better and he was really aweful in game 1. Otherwise he was about as good as I expected.
Fact is the Mavericks overachieved quite a bit taking the number 1 seed Spurs to 7 games. Nearly everybody expected a sweep or a win in 5 by the Spurs, that's a fact.

[Vinsanity_GOAT]

Yep. Pretty much. What the f has carter EVER done that's CLOSE to what Dirk has done? Lemme give you a hint: NOTHING!

You know, if you're going to address me i suggest you find it in yourself to have the common courtesy of quoting me. Unless you're afraid i'll set you straight.

With that said, comparisons based on TEAM accomplishments are completely irrelevant and nonsensical. Personal stats are the same way really (effect of teammates, coaching, etc), but let's not get too far into that, it's common sense anyway.

Let me ask you this. When the f has carter EVER been on a team that's CLOSE to what dirk had? Lemme give you a hint: NEVER!

More importantly, i was criticizing his 2014 playoff performance, not his career...

Dirk never had a great cast around him. Even the 2011 team was by any standard not a normal title contender which usually takes at least one superstar and one all star like early 2000 Lakers.
Heck, the Pistons had 3-4 All Stars on their team and that was already considered an anomaly since no one was a superstar of Shaqs, KGs, Duncans or Kobes caliber.

Just because a player isn't named an allstar doesn't mean he's not on that level. Tyson was behind yao and duncan, obviously he won't get picked before them, that doesn't change the fact that his impact was huge. Marion, butler, terry and kidd were all very good players. Plus a solid bench.

You can frown upon using "team accomplishments" but the point made is a fact, Dirk took a mediocre/avarage Mavericks team to eleven 50+ win seasons consecutively in the loaded western conference, won MVP and FMVP and a title as the main player of the team and is only 1 of 4 players in history to average 25/10 in the playoffs and he is one of the best elimination players ever averaging 28/12 on one of the best efficiencies of all time.

If those teams were mediocre/average then i guess vince's teams were pitiful. Either way, i wasn't criticizing his career which i already said before. He had a great career, everyone knows that.

Even if you take away team accomplishments which is silly, they are part of a legacy, his stats simply blow out Carter's by quite a bit.

Probably, being surrounded by a good team helps.

Carter is lucky to play only half of what Dirk plays this season and does not have to carry a team for quite some time now.

That's his choice, not luck. A choice i don't agree with btw.

Heck even in New Jersey he had a prime Jason Kidd sharing quite some burden off him.
Tell me when had Dirk ever had a player in his prime of Kidd's prowess next to him? Best team Dirk ever had was 2003 Mavericks with Finley and Nash but neither of them were as good as Kidd.

Dirk usually had good to very good players at every position, vince had kidd, a good but overrated jefferson and a bunch of scrubs.

Your criticism of Dirk for this playoff is pretty shortsighted. He went against the best team in the league which happens to be also one of the best defensive teams. Every star player struggles there, even Jordans FG% took a hit against Pistons and Gary Payton.

Yes, so carlisle should've adjusted his minutes. They did fine on offense when he was on the bench anyway.

As for defense, he is 1 year removed from a major knee surgery and is close to be 36 and the problem was team defense, not Dirk specifically. Heck the reason Duncan looks so good at 38 is because he has such a good young team around him with a lot of well fitting players for the Spurs system, unlike Dirk who as usual has to play with misfits and unwanted or past their prime players.

Agreed. Which is why he should've played less.

In fact I dare say that Carter's Nets team were a better team than Dirk's 2006 finals team.

No. You're really underestimating the importance of a good defensive big man in the middle. Not too mention the mavs had good players at every position, the nets had carter/kidd/jefferson while the rest where pretty much borderline d-league level (except for krstic, who was decent but he was too young anyway)

As to your criticism of this playoff run, nothing surprising happened. Spurs made a big effort to contain Dirk rarely leaving him open. He could have shot a bit better and he was really aweful in game 1. Otherwise he was about as good as I expected.

Agreed. Which is why i'm criticizing the fact that carlisle didn't adjust his rotations. I understand that dirk can barely move his feet on defense, which is why it would've been wise to play him less. It's not like they really struggled offensively when he was on the bench.

Fact is the Mavericks overachieved quite a bit taking the number 1 seed Spurs to 7 games. Nearly everybody expected a sweep or a win in 5 by the Spurs, that's a fact.

They surpassed expectations, which is not the same as overachieving. Had carlisle mades some better adjustments they would've been in the 2nd round.

[CDansby]

wow

[Pg81]

You know, if you're going to address me i suggest you find it in yourself to have the common courtesy of quoting me. Unless you're afraid i'll set you straight.

With that said, comparisons based on TEAM accomplishments are completely irrelevant and nonsensical. Personal stats are the same way really (effect of teammates, coaching, etc), but let's not get too far into that, it's common sense anyway.

Let me ask you this. When the f has carter EVER been on a team that's CLOSE to what dirk had? Lemme give you a hint: NEVER!

More importantly, i was criticizing his 2014 playoff performance, not his career...

Dirk never had a great cast around him. Even the 2011 team was by any standard not a normal title contender which usually takes at least one superstar and one all star like early 2000 Lakers.
Heck, the Pistons had 3-4 All Stars on their team and that was already considered an anomaly since no one was a superstar of Shaqs, KGs, Duncans or Kobes caliber.

Just because a player isn't named an allstar doesn't mean he's not on that level. Tyson was behind yao and duncan, obviously he won't get picked before them, that doesn't change the fact that his impact was huge. Marion, butler, terry and kidd were all very good players. Plus a solid bench.

You can frown upon using "team accomplishments" but the point made is a fact, Dirk took a mediocre/avarage Mavericks team to eleven 50+ win seasons consecutively in the loaded western conference, won MVP and FMVP and a title as the main player of the team and is only 1 of 4 players in history to average 25/10 in the playoffs and he is one of the best elimination players ever averaging 28/12 on one of the best efficiencies of all time.

If those teams were mediocre/average then i guess vince's teams were pitiful. Either way, i wasn't criticizing his career which i already said before. He had a great career, everyone knows that.

Even if you take away team accomplishments which is silly, they are part of a legacy, his stats simply blow out Carter's by quite a bit.

Probably, being surrounded by a good team helps.

Carter is lucky to play only half of what Dirk plays this season and does not have to carry a team for quite some time now.

That's his choice, not luck. A choice i don't agree with btw.

Heck even in New Jersey he had a prime Jason Kidd sharing quite some burden off him.
Tell me when had Dirk ever had a player in his prime of Kidd's prowess next to him? Best team Dirk ever had was 2003 Mavericks with Finley and Nash but neither of them were as good as Kidd.

Dirk usually had good to very good players at every position, vince had kidd, a good but overrated jefferson and a bunch of scrubs.

Your criticism of Dirk for this playoff is pretty shortsighted. He went against the best team in the league which happens to be also one of the best defensive teams. Every star player struggles there, even Jordans FG% took a hit against Pistons and Gary Payton.

Yes, so carlisle should've adjusted his minutes. They did fine on offense when he was on the bench anyway.

As for defense, he is 1 year removed from a major knee surgery and is close to be 36 and the problem was team defense, not Dirk specifically. Heck the reason Duncan looks so good at 38 is because he has such a good young team around him with a lot of well fitting players for the Spurs system, unlike Dirk who as usual has to play with misfits and unwanted or past their prime players.

Agreed. Which is why he should've played less.

In fact I dare say that Carter's Nets team were a better team than Dirk's 2006 finals team.

No. You're really underestimating the importance of a good defensive big man in the middle. Not too mention the mavs had good players at every position, the nets had carter/kidd/jefferson while the rest where pretty much borderline d-league level (except for krstic, who was decent but he was too young anyway)

As to your criticism of this playoff run, nothing surprising happened. Spurs made a big effort to contain Dirk rarely leaving him open. He could have shot a bit better and he was really aweful in game 1. Otherwise he was about as good as I expected.

Agreed. Which is why i'm criticizing the fact that carlisle didn't adjust his rotations. I understand that dirk can barely move his feet on defense, which is why it would've been wise to play him less. It's not like they really struggled offensively when he was on the bench.

Fact is the Mavericks overachieved quite a bit taking the number 1 seed Spurs to 7 games. Nearly everybody expected a sweep or a win in 5 by the Spurs, that's a fact.

They surpassed expectations, which is not the same as overachieving. Had carlisle mades some better adjustments they would've been in the 2nd round.

1.) This is some serious revisionist history and simply not true. Tyson Chandler prior to his year with the Mavericks was waived twice, he hadn't had a full season in years being injury prone and never manged even a low double double in the playoffs. Tyson Chandler was never at an all star level and never will. He is a poor mans Ben Wallace at best and only if he is healthy and mentioning him in the same sentence as Duncan is a bit strange considering that Duncan is probably a top 10 all time player. Chandler does not even sniff at the top 50.

2.) Untrue, the Nets were a good team. Better or at the very least equal to some of the Mavs team Dirk had to shoulder and that without another all star in his prime and that was my main point.
Carter had T Mac and Kidd both in their prime while he himself was in his prime, a luxury Dirk never had.

3.) Considering the fact that he was the sole star of the team and almost always commanded double teams and never had another superstar or all star in his prime next to him this comment makes little sense.
His stats are better simply because he was a better player than Carter. Just like MJ has better stats than Dirk because MJ was better than Dirk. Pure and simple.

4.) Ok this is comical. Who was ever good to very good? His two best team mates were Finley and Nash in 2003. After that all team mates he got only shined when they played on the Mavs and were basically a non factor after they left.
I am talking about those quality players like Diop, Dampier, Howard, Daniels, Barrea, etc. What were these players doing outside of their Mavs years?
Marion was already past his prime when he joined the Mavs and never an all star again. Kidd was 38 in the 2011 title run and could not even get a double figure in any statistic while in his prime got double doubles and triple doubles pretty regularly and before you mention his all star selection he was just a replacment and therefore does not count.
Peja Stojakovic had one good series against LA but was a complete disaster on defense and retired directly afterwards.
Odom was a disaster.
Caron Butler was injured and never played in the post season.
Jason Terry was never more than a decent 6th man but sub par 2nd option and just as bad on defense as Calderon is now.
The majority of years Dirk played with a variety of players and team compositions who often were just 1 year contracts of players no one really wanted.

5/6.) Believe what you want. I'll not argue much more at this point with someone who has such an obvious agenda. My take: Dirk was still the most important player. Without him the defense of the Spurs would have focused much more on Carter and Ellis and their numbers would have dropped significantly if Splitter would have been free to roam the paint and Leonard/Diaw free to cover the 3 point line and the 3 point shooters more intensely.
What you are doing is the typical in hindsight without really knowing if it would have worked out. Dirk played 40 minutes on average, if you cut that to let's say 20 minutes the dynamics would have drastically changed and I doubt they would have fared any better.
Could it have worked out? Maybe. A must? No, not at all. It could have just as easily backfired. Carlisle did an outstanding job and I can only shake my head who novices like you think they know better how to handle rotations and a team in general than coaches like RS with years of real NBA experience and in Carlisle's case even a title.
Same strange behavior I see all the time in football, every average fan thinks he is a better coach than the current coach even though that guy almost always has years if not decades of experience and in many cases even success.

7.) You are overestimating the quality of Dirk's roaster. Again Chandler put up roundabout 8/9 in the 2011 playoffs. Where in the world is that great or good? He brought toughness and stability, obviously something they needed, but he was far from what guys like Bryant had in Pau Gasol or Shaq.
Which other position was great? 6th man Terry? Streaky shooter who was worse at defense than Calderon.
Marion? As mentioned past his prime. Still decent but not at all star level anymore.
Center? Almost all years a terrible or bad.
Starting PG? Harris and...?
SG? Which SG was ever good or great for the Mavs outside of Ellis who is at best borderline all star material and that with a big "maybe".

8.) What kind of argument is that? You make it sound like Dirk is suddenly some scrub who is running on crutches. Yes he cannot defend the pick and roll well anymore, but guess what, he should not have to be forced to do it as much as he was in that series. The Mavs perimeter defense was simply awful even with Marion on the court most of the time and especially in game 7.
Matter of fact the Mavs defense sucked most of the time and it sucked hard Dirk or no Dirk. Not only that but the team is incredibly old. Put both together and the "mystery" of all the blown leads vanishes in the RS.
There is a reason their defense was ranked 23th in the RS. It bad on pretty much all positions and I doubt even Duncan could fix that at this stage of his career.

9.) No, the Mavericks overachieved. It was not even sure they could make it to the playoffs considering how loaded the west was this year and there was a reason they literally fought until the last game for a spot in the PO.
So not only did they managed to get into the PO, they also managed to get the title favorites Spurs who are a much better team to a game 7.
That was outstanding for this terribly flawed and limited team.

[Texas Chuck]

This thread had little merit to begin with and this derailment is embarrassing. Time to protect some guys from themselves I guess.