The Dante Exum Thread

[Orlwillbeback]

Don't matter to what degree their shots are unconventional. The point is it's not textbook form, just like LaVine. You can go right on ahead and try to justify why LaVine's is nearly the worst, but that's not proving anything...at all.

sure it is. There are different degrees of bad, and I personally think Lavine's shot looks worse fundamentally than all those players except Marion.

Being unconventional is not the same thing as being bad form. A good shooting stroke has balance, eyes elbow and follow through and with lavine i see he only has 2 of those 4.

So, you're saying what? LaVine is not a good shooter?

well he was a decent shooter at the ncaa level but i think flaws that are due to bad fundamentals become more pronounced in the nba.

[Smooth_E]

To all of you saying "Exum ain't s**t because he only plays against high-school players":

Please explain how happy you were that we drafted a high school Dwight Howard over NCAA champion Emeka Okafor.

Please, tell me what the difference is.. Honest question.

To me, it is much different when it comes to bigs and guards. A super athletic big like Dwight or even Embiid will always appear better than guards. Who knows when it is all said and done. Exum can surprise, but he can just as easily underwhelm. I am thinking middle of the road to above average player. But, not superstar like the hype.

I wonder who Oladipo truly wants on his team . . . extremely competitive or hype.

I see your logic, but remember, Oladipo knows Exum and is said to be good friends with him.

[MellowRose]

sure it is. There are different degrees of bad, and I personally think Lavine's shot looks worse fundamentally than all those players except Marion.

Being unconventional is not the same thing as being bad form. A good shooting stroke has balance, eyes elbow and follow through and with lavine i see he only has 2 of those 4.

So, you're saying what? LaVine is not a good shooter?

well he was a decent shooter at the ncaa level but i think flaws that are due to bad fundamentals become more pronounced in the nba.

Okay, I can't argue with personal opinions. We'll just have to wait and see.

[BadMofoPimp]

To all of you saying "Exum ain't s**t because he only plays against high-school players":

Please explain how happy you were that we drafted a high school Dwight Howard over NCAA champion Emeka Okafor.

Please, tell me what the difference is.. Honest question.

To me, it is much different when it comes to bigs and guards. A super athletic big like Dwight or even Embiid will always appear better than guards. Who knows when it is all said and done. Exum can surprise, but he can just as easily underwhelm. I am thinking middle of the road to above average player. But, not superstar like the hype.

I wonder who Oladipo truly wants on his team . . . extremely competitive or hype.

I see your logic, but remember, Oladipo knows Exum and is said to be good friends with him.

I don't get this good friends. Hanging out and chilling with someone at an international event is not a personal friendship. A doubt more than a few texts messages, sharing music and a few laughs. Oladipo's college teammates are probably true friends. I don't know how talking to someone maybe up to a dozen times is "good friends." Anyone can say that, but is it true.

Really. Think about interpersonal relationships you have been in and call good friends then apply to how often they most likely talked to each other with the amount of handlers and friends they have around them.

It is more a figure of speech like we associated with each other a few times and got along.


On another note, I wonder how many "Good Friends" Dwight has had?

[Smooth_E]

To me, it is much different when it comes to bigs and guards. A super athletic big like Dwight or even Embiid will always appear better than guards. Who knows when it is all said and done. Exum can surprise, but he can just as easily underwhelm. I am thinking middle of the road to above average player. But, not superstar like the hype.

I wonder who Oladipo truly wants on his team . . . extremely competitive or hype.

I see your logic, but remember, Oladipo knows Exum and is said to be good friends with him.

I don't get this good friends. Hanging out and chilling with someone at an international event is not a personal friendship. A doubt more than a few texts messages, sharing music and a few laughs. Oladipo's college teammates are probably true friends. I don't know how talking to someone maybe up to a dozen times is "good friends." Anyone can say that, but is it true.

Really. Think about interpersonal relationships you have been in and call good friends then apply to how often they most likely talked to each other with the amount of handlers and friends they have around them.

It is more a figure of speech like we associated with each other a few times and got along.


On another note, I wonder how many "Good Friends" Dwight has had?

I guess ol' BMP doesn't believe in love at first sight..

[OrlChamps2030]

Hey Zmill,

Idk if you saw this earlier but it would be a great addition to the OP. Check it out when you have some time.

http://hoopsanalyst.com/?p=1070

I enjoyed reading this article, good insight. Thanks for posting it. I added it to the OP.

I updated the OP and tried to format it so it's easier to navigate, let me know if anyone has any problems with it

[BadMofoPimp]

I remember watching that 30/30 show on the Bad Boys Pistons. Isaiah and Laimbeer were not good friends. They didn't hang out or had anything personally in common with the exception that they were super intense competitors. They both wanted to win at all costs. That was it. They both admit it. Heck, they left each other on bad notes. Isaiah punching Laimbeer. But, they respected the hell out of each other and would go to war for each other. This is what I want. Intense competitors who battle to the end. This is why I like players like Smart and Randle. True heart and hustle win at all costs type of players. This is why someone like Randle can lead a team to the finals. May not be the best player, but does all that he can to play on a championship team.

[BadMofoPimp]

I don't get this good friends. Hanging out and chilling with someone at an international event is not a personal friendship. A doubt more than a few texts messages, sharing music and a few laughs. Oladipo's college teammates are probably true friends. I don't know how talking to someone maybe up to a dozen times is "good friends." Anyone can say that, but is it true.

Really. Think about interpersonal relationships you have been in and call good friends then apply to how often they most likely talked to each other with the amount of handlers and friends they have around them.

It is more a figure of speech like we associated with each other a few times and got along.


On another note, I wonder how many "Good Friends" Dwight has had?

I guess ol' BMP doesn't believe in love at first sight..

That is a childhood thing. Then, you get burned so many times you can see thru fools gold!

[Smooth_E]

I don't get this good friends. Hanging out and chilling with someone at an international event is not a personal friendship. A doubt more than a few texts messages, sharing music and a few laughs. Oladipo's college teammates are probably true friends. I don't know how talking to someone maybe up to a dozen times is "good friends." Anyone can say that, but is it true.

Really. Think about interpersonal relationships you have been in and call good friends then apply to how often they most likely talked to each other with the amount of handlers and friends they have around them.

It is more a figure of speech like we associated with each other a few times and got along.


On another note, I wonder how many "Good Friends" Dwight has had?

I guess ol' BMP doesn't believe in love at first sight..

That is a childhood thing. Then, you get burned so many times you can see thru fools gold!

Not with bromance, sir. That's an adult emotion shared by only the manliest of men. Oladipo and Exum have that championship type bromance! #DraftDante

[MagicFan32]

And this is a prime example of why people are enamored with this kid. "Hes 6'6"! All the stuff you see him do on the court is against inferior talent. I'll say it, I dont think Henny picks him. I think hes hyped up because everyone wants to find the next MCW. I dont see Elite player based on what little ive seen.

this is a dumb example, so when embiid was dominating the NCAA this year, does that mean he's any less of a player due to playing against "inferior" talent, since he was quite clearly better than everyone? Why exactly should Exum's size not be a plus in his favor?

Oh, come on, really?

It means he's less proven and less certain.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that there would be a continuum of certainty based upon (a) a players output and (b) level of competition that they faced while producing that output.

Every draft pick is inherently unproven by the simple fact that by definition they've never played in the NBA, which is the future performance which we are attempting to predict.

If a player is out on the court dominating kids at Podunk Regional Middle School (inferior NBA talent,) they may well be a great NBA prospect, but it's going to be a lot more certain if that player is dominating the Big 12 in Division 1 of the NCAA (also inferior NBA talent.)

the point is, talent is talent, irregardless of where they play

[Smooth_E]

this is a dumb example, so when embiid was dominating the NCAA this year, does that mean he's any less of a player due to playing against "inferior" talent, since he was quite clearly better than everyone? Why exactly should Exum's size not be a plus in his favor?

Oh, come on, really?

It means he's less proven and less certain.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that there would be a continuum of certainty based upon (a) a players output and (b) level of competition that they faced while producing that output.

Every draft pick is inherently unproven by the simple fact that by definition they've never played in the NBA, which is the future performance which we are attempting to predict.

If a player is out on the court dominating kids at Podunk Regional Middle School (inferior NBA talent,) they may well be a great NBA prospect, but it's going to be a lot more certain if that player is dominating the Big 12 in Division 1 of the NCAA (also inferior NBA talent.)

the point is, talent is talent, irregardless of where they play

I'm going to co-sign on this too. At the end of the day though, if Rob and Co. choose Exum, it's obviously because they believe in his talent and potential. #DraftDante

[MagicFan32]

exum may have a longer adjustment period to the NBA, but if he's as talented as alot of people seem to think he is, it'll eventually show out, unless he's a hadcase or injuries derail him. scott perry has watched him in person so he probably has a decent idea of his skill level

[Bensational]

Oh, come on, really?

It means he's less proven and less certain.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that there would be a continuum of certainty based upon (a) a players output and (b) level of competition that they faced while producing that output.

Every draft pick is inherently unproven by the simple fact that by definition they've never played in the NBA, which is the future performance which we are attempting to predict.

If a player is out on the court dominating kids at Podunk Regional Middle School (inferior NBA talent,) they may well be a great NBA prospect, but it's going to be a lot more certain if that player is dominating the Big 12 in Division 1 of the NCAA (also inferior NBA talent.)

Ultimately there's more to scouting than simply noting the quality of the talent faced, and that's what has been lost in the last 10 pages.

Seems like nobody here is confident enough to analyze basketball skill and ability so they resort to analyzing the competition. They're analyzing the situation and not the player.

This applies to all draftees, not just Exum.

I'd like to challenge anyone to take the time watching some of Exum's highlights and finding measurements for the quickness of his first step in game, and compare that to Smart. I'd do it, if I weren't too busy. Might still try to make time. But let's try to elevate these discussions from the trivial bulls#!t I've been reading the last few pages.

[Baller2014]

The eye and numbers test for Exum are very impressive. But then, I'm just a fan without the millions of dollars of resources and man hours invested into scouting these guys, which is why I factor the competence of the front office into how I react to draft picks initially. If Henny wants Exum, I'm good with that. He certainly looks amazing to me.

[Pipp33]

He was being guarded by garbage ass Andrew Harrison all game long in that Nike Hoop Summit. There's no wonder why he impressed.

The tallest guy for team U.S. was about 6-8 242 lb in Noah Vonleh. Also worth mentioning Exum only took EIGHT FGA. That sample size isn't worth anything. Only had 2 assists as well.

What frightens me about Exum is that for everything positive you can say about him, there's almost ALWAYS something the opposition can say to neutralize that positive aspect i.e. Andrew Harrison guarding Exum, small sample size, no true shot blocking big man, etc...

Still not sold.

I think the only people who can be sold on him are the teams he does work outs for.

At the end of the day - he is a high school kid from Australia, which would be scary for any team to take at the high end of the lottery even if he had videos like LBJ's out of High School. To select a player from a country with very little pedigree of producing big time baskteball talent is a risk, but he has been groomed for this for a very long time and I don't think he will be a bust. He may not dominate, but can't see him not being at least a serviceable starter.

So you're saying it's okay if we get a "serviceable starter" with the #4 pick in a loaded draft? I'm trying to find the superstar in this draft, not the serviceable starter who will get me fired in a couple of years.

No, I'm not saying it's okay - I am saying that I don't think he would be a bust, which can happen with ANY pick, including the number 1. No pick is ever guartanteed to be a superstar. Even with LBJ, you can't guarantee he will not blow out a knee in a Summer league game.
Is it possible that he can be a Superstar - absolutely. That can also be said for a few other players as well.
You are abviously not going be satisfied until Exum proves you right or wrong. To say he only took 8Fg attempts in the Summit, proves nothing either way. Maybe he was under team instructions, maybe he thought others had better looks.
The AIS may not mean jack to you, but they get a lot of scouts through there, so it's obvious that someone is interested in it. There are floors in every program, just like there are in US College ball.
I hope he turns out to be great, wherever he plays.

[Devin 1L]

this is a dumb example, so when embiid was dominating the NCAA this year, does that mean he's any less of a player due to playing against "inferior" talent, since he was quite clearly better than everyone? Why exactly should Exum's size not be a plus in his favor?

Oh, come on, really?

It means he's less proven and less certain.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that there would be a continuum of certainty based upon (a) a players output and (b) level of competition that they faced while producing that output.

Every draft pick is inherently unproven by the simple fact that by definition they've never played in the NBA, which is the future performance which we are attempting to predict.

If a player is out on the court dominating kids at Podunk Regional Middle School (inferior NBA talent,) they may well be a great NBA prospect, but it's going to be a lot more certain if that player is dominating the Big 12 in Division 1 of the NCAA (also inferior NBA talent.)

the point is, talent is talent, irregardless of where they play

First off, "irregardless" isn't a real word.

I don't normally do this -- I'm not the resident "spelling/grammar Nazi." It's just that I've used that word before, probably in conversation, and most definitely in written form. But, years ago, here on RealGM, mhectorgato corrected me on my usage of the word; I've never used it since then. So, there's that.

Secondly, I agree. Talent is talent [regardless/irrespective] of where they play. Agreed!

But what is talent? That's what we're trying to determine (in the context of the future expected NBA performance.) The And1 Mixtape dudes look talented as heck!

It's not like there is some objective "Talent Test" that can be given to all potential NBA prospects. We derive it. We consider big things like (a) their performance, and (b) who that performance was against to try to gauge things like talent, but it's not like a two-part "here's his talent number, so here is where he goes" solution. We then consider other things, like, (c) age, notably, because we don't just want to know where you are, but where you'll be. Talent is contextual.

[MagicFan32]

First off, "irregardless" isn't a real word.

I don't normally do this -- I'm not the resident "spelling/grammar Nazi." It's just that I've used that word before, probably in conversation, and most definitely in written form. But, years ago, here on RealGM, mhectorgato corrected me on my usage of the word; I've never used it since then. So, there's that.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

according to webster it is?

Secondly, I agree. Talent is talent [regardless/irrespective] of where they play. Agreed!

But what is talent? That's what we're trying to determine (in the context of the future expected NBA performance.) The And1 Mixtape dudes look talented as heck!

It's not like there is some objective "Talent Test" that can be given to all potential NBA prospects. We derive it. We consider big things like (a) their performance, and (b) who that performance was against to try to gauge things like talent, but it's not like a two-part "here's his talent number, so here is where he goes" solution. We then consider other things, like, (c) age, notably, because we don't just want to know where you are, but where you'll be. Talent is contextual.

but ultimately talent rises up, you can only play the competition that is put in front of you. many of the experts seem to think he has plenty of talent

[ezzzp]

To me, it is much different when it comes to bigs and guards. A super athletic big like Dwight or even Embiid will always appear better than guards. Who knows when it is all said and done. Exum can surprise, but he can just as easily underwhelm. I am thinking middle of the road to above average player. But, not superstar like the hype.

I wonder who Oladipo truly wants on his team . . . extremely competitive or hype.

I see your logic, but remember, Oladipo knows Exum and is said to be good friends with him.

I don't get this good friends. Hanging out and chilling with someone at an international event is not a personal friendship. A doubt more than a few texts messages, sharing music and a few laughs. Oladipo's college teammates are probably true friends. I don't know how talking to someone maybe up to a dozen times is "good friends." Anyone can say that, but is it true.

Really. Think about interpersonal relationships you have been in and call good friends then apply to how often they most likely talked to each other with the amount of handlers and friends they have around them.

It is more a figure of speech like we associated with each other a few times and got along.


On another note, I wonder how many "Good Friends" Dwight has had?

yep this "good friend" thing reeks of bs...obviously strategically leaked by someone and now the media has them as blood brothers for life

[MagicStarwipe]

Exum comes out of the AIS (Australian Institute of Sport). Same place Bogut and Patty Mills came from. He also played against some of the top talent in the world in his age bracket. He didn't just play Australian high school ball.

WOW...he came out of the **** AIS? Man, that **** is better than the NBA.


Who the **** cares about the AIS? Does it show us anything? NO. Does it help us in evaluating his talent and how he'll translate to the NBA? NO.

As to the he played against top talent, I'll say this briefly, since I already explained it in depth previously (especially the FIBA tourney), he took 8 FGA at the Nike Hoop Summit, while having garbage ass Andrew Harrison guarding him. Tallest "shot blocker" on team USA was Vonleh (who was 6-8 at the time), and he's not even known to be a tremendous shot blocker.

Small sample size (8 FGA) + no real shot blocker + garbage ass perimeter defender = Nothing.

Geez dude, you're taking this way too personally. All I said was he hasn't just played high school ball and you friggin' lose your s**t. Relax. The AIS is one of the most prestigous sports training institutions in the world. And you forgot to mention the FIBA world championships.

[SOUL]

Anybody who BMP argues against makes me convinced it will be a good pick since that's how it works with him. No offense to BMP since he's grown on me but yeah.

There are certain posters who have all of their eggs in certain players baskets obviously in this thread.. which is fine, but just like I did with Oladipo, I'm going to support whoever Henny and Co. bring in to the fullest. I prefer either Embiid, Wiggins, Exum or Parker but even if it's one of the others I'll trust the front office.