Simmons: Reinsdorf Runs Bulls Like Small Market Team

organix85 · Post #41 » by **organix85** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:20 pm

ChiTownNation wrote:We had the 4th highest payroll entering the season and didn't make cost cutting moves until after we knew rose was done. Check your facts Simmons.

http://blog.surepayroll.com/nba-payrolls-2013-2014/

The author of that may need to check his own facts... pretty sure we didn't spend 80 million this year.

HyMay · Post #42 » by **HyMay** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Initially I liked a lot things that Simmons was writing (still do) and saying (on broadcast). But something has changed. I guess when someone gains notoriety like he has it changes you. He went from using a lot of data to a lot more opinion (and mix some data in there). Which is fine but he seems acts like a baby when someone has an opposing view.

DannyNoonan1221 · Post #43 » by **DannyNoonan1221** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:34 pm

Rerisen wrote:This guy sure is making a lot of page hits on talking about the Bulls. I'm sure he won't stop anytime soon.

His 'Jerry is a miser' stuff feeds right into his "Thibs is unhappy about cheap ownership, so he's going to get traded" stuff and other over arching conspiracies he builds.

Why are so many Bulls fans acting as if there is no way Thibs could be traded? The Grizzlies are getting rid of guys left and right. Why would Thibs not take more money to have more control over the team? And whether it's a smart plan or not, how can you truly believe our FO wouldn't trade him? They have butted heads for a while now- they are definitely at least open to view some possibilities.

I am not opposed to entertaining the idea. I still believe that at some point, sooner than later, the players are going to get over thibs if they don't start producing truly competitive series in the ECF/Finals. How frustrating do you think it is to have him harp and yell all year to win in the regular season and then do nothing in the playoffs? That's a hell of a lot work for an 82 games season just to watch their peers coast through the regular season with more laid back coaches and see playoff results.

I think the only thing truly holding back a trade of Thibs is Melo: it seems like he only wants to come here if Thibs is here, which should be enough to keep him here. But if melo falls through I would not be surprised to see the Bulls trade Thibs.

Post #44 » by **kingkirk** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:34 pm

This guy is writing too much about the Bulls for my liking.

He is definitely running with us as his theme right now.

TheStig · Post #45 » by **TheStig** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:35 pm

I think before the last couple of years when the new CBA went into effect we were running the team like a small market. We were 1 of 5 teams to never pay the LT until recently and constantly avoided big moves and taking on salary that would improve us. We were so afraid of the less punitive tax.

That being said, I will give JR credit for the last 2 years. Year before last he paid the tax and this year he signed MDJ whn they were already in the tax. He was set to have a top 7 payroll before Rose went down again. I think the tied has changed with him.

Stratmaster · Post #46 » by **Stratmaster** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:42 pm

organix85 wrote:Lol... and you guys are insinuating that what he said wasn't correct? We 100% do not run like we are the third biggest market. Who are we trying to kid here?

How are the Lakers and Knicks doing running their teams like there are no limitations? Better yet, see if they keep running them that way under the new CBA.

Post #47 » by **dougthonus** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:44 pm

coldfish wrote:Let's put it this way, if Rose had a Adrian Petersen like comeback from his ACL and been playing well by January but the team went on to lose in the playoffs, people would have been screaming about the Asik and Korver dumps. Rose's injuries has basically insulated the Bulls from spending complaints.

Perhaps, but it may also be Rose's injury that caused them to make those moves. We'll never really know.

Post #48 » by **dougthonus** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:45 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
organix85 wrote:Lol... and you guys are insinuating that what he said wasn't correct? We 100% do not run like we are the third biggest market. Who are we trying to kid here?

How are the Lakers and Knicks doing running their teams like there are no limitations? Better yet, see if they keep running them that way under the new CBA.

The Lakers have been doing pretty spectacularly as far as I can see. They have won five titles in the past 13 years.

Post #49 » by **DuckIII** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:48 pm

organix85 wrote:Lol... and you guys are insinuating that what he said wasn't correct? We 100% do not run like we are the third biggest market. Who are we trying to kid here?

I think there are elements of truth to it, but I don't think its "correct."

Post-Rose, what are the "small market" things the Bulls have done that bother any of you? I can think of a couple, but only one really stands out to me as being a big deal:

(1) Dumping Korver in a salary dump. That one stings, and it was pretty clearly financially motivated.

(2) Asik? I guess they could have traded him before Houston offered him that crazy contract, but who saw that coming? And history has shown they were right to not match that deal.

(3) Deng? Trading Deng was the right thing to do under the circumstances. I wish they would have gotten more assets for him, but dumping his salary to avoid the luxury tax in a treading water season made plenty of sense.

Bottom line is we have one of the highest payrolls in the NBA, and since acquiring Rose the team has been willing to spend. Just not spend every penny possible.

Pnjguy · Post #50 » by **Pnjguy** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:49 pm

The funny thing here is that he thinks Jerry runs anything regarding the Bulls. I guarantee Jerry doesn't even know all the guys on the roster.

Post #51 » by **coldfish** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:51 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
organix85 wrote:Lol... and you guys are insinuating that what he said wasn't correct? We 100% do not run like we are the third biggest market. Who are we trying to kid here?

How are the Lakers and Knicks doing running their teams like there are no limitations? Better yet, see if they keep running them that way under the new CBA.

There was a study on spending versus winning. Can't find the link. The Knicks have been just awful. If you taken them out, there is a strong correlation between spending and winning + playoff performance. As Doug just noted, including the Lakers.

Stratmaster · Post #52 » by **Stratmaster** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:51 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
organix85 wrote:Lol... and you guys are insinuating that what he said wasn't correct? We 100% do not run like we are the third biggest market. Who are we trying to kid here?

How are the Lakers and Knicks doing running their teams like there are no limitations? Better yet, see if they keep running them that way under the new CBA.

The Lakers have been doing pretty spectacularly as far as I can see. They have won five titles in the past 13 years.

The last one being 4 seasons ago. the financial climate in the NBA is spectacularly different now than it was then. I guess the bulls won 6 titles acting like a small market team as they were widely blasted for their handling of Jordan, Pippen and Jackson.

p.s. i think some guy named Kobe had more to do with that than the front office throwing money around.

organix85 · Post #53 » by **organix85** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:55 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
organix85 wrote:Lol... and you guys are insinuating that what he said wasn't correct? We 100% do not run like we are the third biggest market. Who are we trying to kid here?

How are the Lakers and Knicks doing running their teams like there are no limitations? Better yet, see if they keep running them that way under the new CBA.

Your response is not really relevant. I am surprised you mentioned the Lakers though. One bad year makes us run better I guess.

Stratmaster · Post #54 » by **Stratmaster** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:55 pm

coldfish wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
organix85 wrote:Lol... and you guys are insinuating that what he said wasn't correct? We 100% do not run like we are the third biggest market. Who are we trying to kid here?

How are the Lakers and Knicks doing running their teams like there are no limitations? Better yet, see if they keep running them that way under the new CBA.

There was a study on spending versus winning. Can't find the link. The Knicks have been just awful. If you taken them out, there is a strong correlation between spending and winning + playoff performance. As Doug just noted, including the Lakers.

to paraphrase a currently running commercial, "The new CBA changed EVERYTHING". If you are going to throw money around, you damn well better pick the right players, and the right mix of players. Making one bad choice can tie your hands for years to come. Let's hope that Melo doesn't turn out to be that bad choice for the Bulls.

Stratmaster · Post #55 » by **Stratmaster** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:58 pm

organix85 wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
organix85 wrote:Lol... and you guys are insinuating that what he said wasn't correct? We 100% do not run like we are the third biggest market. Who are we trying to kid here?

How are the Lakers and Knicks doing running their teams like there are no limitations? Better yet, see if they keep running them that way under the new CBA.

Your response is not really relevant.

So it is irrelevant to refute the claim that the Bulls run like they are a small market team, which obviously refers they refuse to spend the gazillions of dollars they make as a big market team, by comparing their current level of success to the two largest market teams? Who have done the opposite?

organix85 · Post #56 » by **organix85** » Fri May 23, 2014 3:00 pm

DuckIII wrote:
organix85 wrote:Lol... and you guys are insinuating that what he said wasn't correct? We 100% do not run like we are the third biggest market. Who are we trying to kid here?

I think there are elements of truth to it, but I don't think its "correct."

Post-Rose, what are the "small market" things the Bulls have done that bother any of you? I can think of a couple, but only one really stands out to me as being a big deal:

(1) Dumping Korver in a salary dump. That one stings, and it was pretty clearly financially motivated.

(2) Asik? I guess they could have traded him before Houston offered him that crazy contract, but who saw that coming? And history has shown they were right to not match that deal.

(3) Deng? Trading Deng was the right thing to do under the circumstances. I wish they would have gotten more assets for him, but dumping his salary to avoid the luxury tax in a treading water season made plenty of sense.

Bottom line is we have one of the highest payrolls in the NBA, and since acquiring Rose the team has been willing to spend. Just not spend every penny possible.

I think it is assumed that we have to be bothered to agree with Simmons' statement, but that's not really the case. The truth is that with Rose going down, throwing money around wouldn't fix this team anyway. So honestly, it is "whatever" for lack of a better term. Save... spend... we are stuck until Rose is healthy. But the fact remains that we do not operate like a big market team, for better or worse.

Mech Engineer · Post #57 » by **Mech Engineer** » Fri May 23, 2014 3:00 pm

The new CBA really doesn't hurt. I agree it changed some things. But, it is just being thrown out there without much evidence. The cap is increasing and it is supposed to increase more in the next few years with the LT tax limit probably going to 80+ million in 3/4 years. The guess is it will be at 75-76 million next year.

SpinninHouse · Post #58 » by **SpinninHouse** » Fri May 23, 2014 3:01 pm

Arguably the four most successful franchises in the NBA today are San Antonio, Miami, Indiana, and Oklahoma City. How big of markets are they? Compare that to the three biggest markets in the NBA - Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York. Of the four teams in those markets, two didn't even make the playoffs and neither of the two playoff teams even made it to the Conference Finals.

What does "small market" even mean anymore? Is San Antonio a huge market? They don't even have an NFL team. How about Oklahoma City? One of them will make it the Finals. Maybe we should operate like a small market considering the league's most successful franchises are from small markets.

Simmons has become increasingly annoying.

organix85 · Post #59 » by **organix85** » Fri May 23, 2014 3:01 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
organix85 wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
How are the Lakers and Knicks doing running their teams like there are no limitations? Better yet, see if they keep running them that way under the new CBA.

Your response is not really relevant.

So it is irrelevant to refute the claim that the Bulls run like they are a small market team, which obviously refers they refuse to spend the gazillions of dollars they make as a big market team, by comparing their current level of success to the two largest market teams? Who have done the opposite?

No, cause you are assuming I think spending money foolishly is correct. What Simmons said is that we operate like the smaller market teams (i.e. not NYC and LA). That's true.

League Circles · Post #60 » by **League Circles** » Fri May 23, 2014 3:03 pm

Does anyone remember how funny and smart Simmons used to be many years ago when he just wrote the sportsguy column on espn.com page 2 I think it was called?

Seems like another lifetime. I swear he's become dumberer over time.