The Right time to make a BIG Move

[PandaKidd]

but it's not as easy as just Horford/Love vs Horford/Milsap. You have to factor in salaries. I don't know the exact figures but I would assume Love's next max will end up averaging close to $20 million per year. That's double what Milsap is making. Can Love provide double the production that Milsap does? I don't think so. We would also be giving up picks and players so it would cost us more than double Milsap's salary.

Fair point. But remember, both Millsap AND Love are Free Agents are next summer. And they'll both be looking for a raise.

We gutted the team to make runs at top Free Agents. Any top Free Agent will have flaws. But Love out produces Dwight Howard and compares favorably to Dirk in his prime.

Either we're willing to pay a Free Agent a max salary for top tier production, or we're going the 20004 Pistons route of building a low cost team of vets....

I thought the whole point of clearing salaryw as to make a FREE AGENT splash.

Millsap is also older isnt he?

But, Love for Millsap Im not sure that makes any sense long term. We would still be incredibly weak at SG/SF and this would not solve the Center problem.

Again, it comes back to is AH playing Center or NOT.

[ATLHawksfan21]

but it's not as easy as just Horford/Love vs Horford/Milsap. You have to factor in salaries. I don't know the exact figures but I would assume Love's next max will end up averaging close to $20 million per year. That's double what Milsap is making. Can Love provide double the production that Milsap does? I don't think so. We would also be giving up picks and players so it would cost us more than double Milsap's salary.

Fair point. But remember, both Millsap AND Love are Free Agents are next summer. And they'll both be looking for a raise.

We gutted the team to make runs at top Free Agents. Any top Free Agent will have flaws. But Love out produces Dwight Howard and compares favorably to Dirk in his prime.

Either we're willing to pay a Free Agent a max salary for top tier production, or we're going the 20004 Pistons route of building a low cost team of vets....

I thought the whole point of clearing salaryw as to make a FREE AGENT splash.

This is where we disagree. I would take Howard 10 times out of 10 over Love without even blinking. Howard is still the most dominant defensive big in the league and he can put the ball in the hoop when he gets one on one looks around the rim. You put him on our team, with our stacked lineup of shooters and it would be a match made in heaven. Teague/Korver/Carroll/Horford/Howard would be right there with Miami as favorites in the East in my opinion. I can't say the same for Teague/Korver/Carroll/Love/Horford.

Howard averaged 26 and 13 with 2.5 blocks per game and 57.6% FG in the Portland series. I would expect his numbers to increase with us as our team would provide much better spacing and we play in the East. A front-line of Carroll/Horford/Howard would own the paint and our shooters would get open shots all day as they double down on Howard.

[atlantabbq99]

Love is a scary player, because he could be a franchise killer like Blake Griffin and Joe Johnson. Good enough to get a max contract, but not good enough to lead a team in the playoffs.

[Jamaaliver]

Love is a scary player, because he could be a franchise killer like Blake Griffin and Joe Johnson. Good enough to get a max contract, but not good enough to lead a team in the playoffs.

wow. Are u old enough to remember how dreadful the Clippers were before Griffin was drafted?

wow.....Never heard anyone call Griffin a franchise killer. This year, all I've heard is how he finally toughened up, expanded his game and became a legit superstar.

just....wow.

Howard averaged 26 and 13 with 2.5 blocks per game and 57.6% FG in the Portland series. I would expect his numbers to increase with us as our team would provide much better spacing and we play in the East. A front-line of Carroll/Horford/Howard would own the paint and our shooters would get open shots all day as they double down on Howard.

You mean the series they lost in 6 games? Has Howard EVER produced better than those numbers in the playoffs? Oh yeah, in a 6 game series against us where he lost in the first round. It's been years since Dwight actually progressed in the playoffs.

But, Love for Millsap Im not sure that makes any sense long term. We would still be incredibly weak at SG/SF and this would not solve the Center problem.

You gotta think bigger, PK. We get love...we're not keeping this team. These wings. we're not simply adding Love. We're rebuilding the entire roster.

Love & Horford would make a great foundation. Love would be our Dirk Nowitzki, and at age 25 he is just NOW entering his prime. He hasn't even peaked yet.

Think of it this way, would SAS turn down Kevin Love as a replacement for Duncan?
So why would we?

[PandaKidd]

Who is our Tim Duncan?

Jamaal , seriously, if we made a run at KLOVE then we are blowing the current team up right? ANd Love doesnt solve our C issue unless AH is playing C right?

What do you envision? Love is the domino that brings us KI and...............

Im all for thinking bigger, but also being SMART.

Love is a max contract player, easy choice. Hes an elite talent. However, what team are we shooting for if we made a run at him. Honestly. Think about it.

What I dont want to do is get a KLOVE and we spend the next 3 years "attracting other free agents" and we wind up with JJ, JSMOOV , HORFORD because we had to have "superstars"

Millsap for Love straight up as long as AH is interested in being C. If not, then Love does nothing for us except piss AH off even more

[azuresou1]

Dirk was FAR more reliable at getting needed baskets when offenses broke down. Love gets most of his points within the offense which is great, but if you're paying for a superstar, you need them to make superstar plays.

This is whoppingly apparent when you compare their stats:
2013 Love - 66% assisted; clutch time 32 pts/48, 65% assisted, .425 eFG%
2006 Dirk - 50% assisted; clutch time 46 pts/48, 39% assisted, .494 eFG%

So, Dirk got assisted less than Love in general, but during crunch time he scored WAY more points on WAY higher efficiency despite getting shots created for him far less often.

Oh, and he also wasn't a petulant cancer who screams at his teammates for MAKING open threes.

[ATLHawksfan21]

The Rockets early dismissal does not rest on Howard's shoulders. It rests on the complete lack of defense by their backcourt and the complete no-show of James Harden. Harden's game is solid during the regular season but it doesn't translate to the post-season. I fear that this could be the same result for Love but we don't know since he has yet to play a playoff game.

I'm sorry but I'm not buying the Love/Dirk comparison. As Az pointed out, Dirk can actually create for himself. Love is similar to Horford in that he gets the majority of his points off of shots which were created for him by his teammate.

The Love/Duncan comparison doesn't fit well either since Duncan is one of the best defensive big men this game has ever seen. Love is not going to change a game on the defensive end and he tends to even loaf on that end at times.

[Jamaaliver]

Again, I haven't seen enough of Love's games to make a decisive judgment on my onw, so I'll yield to you guys on this one. But if K-Love goes to a contender and suddenly leads a team on a long post-season run, I'll be bringing this back up.

Zach Randolph used to be called a thug, selfish, one-dimensional, but once he got to a Memphis team with solid personnel and a blue collar coach, he blossomed and so did the Grizzlies.

Rasheed Wallace used to be called a basket case, but on a veteran team with great coaching, he was an integral part of a championship team.

Pau Gasol used to be called soft, weak, one-dimensional, but he helped rujevenate LAL leading them to 3 straight Finals appearances and 2 NBA Championships.

All these guys were flawed players who just needed a better fit and a coach who knew how to utilize them. Time will tell what type of player Love grows into.

NOTE: I would not support bringing in both Kyrie AND Love together. Even I acknowledge that would be disastrous.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Again, I haven't seen enough of Love's games to make a decisive judgment on my onw, so I'll yield to you guys on this one.

All these guys were flawed players who just needed a better fit and a coach who knew how to utilize them. Time will tell what type of player Love grows into.

NOTE: I would not support bringing in both Kyrie AND Love together. Even I acknowledge that would be disastrous.

I think your first sentence most likely applies to all of us and I know it does me. I haven't seen him play near as much as most other "stars" in the league since he is in Minny and in the Western conference. I could be completely wrong about Love and he could turn out to be the perfect piece for us. I'm just hesitant on trading key pieces away for a chance to re-sign Love. There's no guarantee that he stays if we do sign him and he will take a large portion of our cap if we are able to sign him. Honestly, I would probably have concerns about any max contract outside of maybe 5 players. The concern magnifies when the player has a history of injuries and character concerns (even if they are light).

At the end of the day, I have full faith in Ferry and Bud to make the right move. If they make a move for Love or Irving I will immediately eat my words and believe in them 100%.

[azuresou1]

Zach Randolph has brought Memphis to... what exactly, while playing with Marc Gasol and Mike Conley?

Rasheed happened to play with one of and perhaps THE greatest defensive C in the history of the league, along with Chauncey, Rip, and Tayshaun.

Pau got to play with Kobe and Odom/Bynum.

What's my point here? That those guys played with elite talent, talent that we don't have. Love is not an elite player who can bring us a championship.

[Hawks champs]

We should offer lou for the #1. I can't see the cavs passing that up. Better than facing the ridicule of back to back complete ****ups.

[theatlfan]

One point in Jamaaliver's favor here guys: there is no doubt that some NBA franchises simply do not bring out the best in their players. Jamaal hit on LAC and what that place was like before Griffin. Now, I think MIN and CLE are going to be contenders for teams that players are starting to view as, more or less, a minor league team that pays well. The fact is that both have been in situations where they realize that their FO is either entirely incompetent or just too far behind the eight ball to really change the roster and the culture has been so ingrained in both cities that I don't think that one guy can really change it. If we pluck them out of their situation, I have to think that each will be much more receptive to hearing a new voice than continuing with the same ole, same ole. I mean Phil Jackson tells stories about how he got Michael Jordan, Kobe etc to buy into his team concept, and we don't think Kyrie or Love would listen to whoever plucked him off the minor league team? So forth a coach that the players actually respect? I mean if they're put into a situation where not doing the little things (or the big things - like play defense) is so unacceptable that other players are getting in your face with comments like "Korver is a better defender than you" then you don't think that the player would, you know, actually try a *lot* harder on D?

I mean I guess the contention that these guys are who they always were could be valid, but something tells me that for whatever else they are, they are both still professionals. I just feel that if you bring a horse to water, then he'll drink; the way our team prepares and competes right now would be putting either of those guys into Lake Meade. Whatever your complaints are about how they play today will evaporate once they can lift their current situation off their shoulders.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Concerns about their character and heart aren't the only concerns though. Love and kyrie have probably been the two most injury prone "stars" over the past 3 years.

We also already have low-level all-stars on bargain contracts at their position. Paying a kyrie twice what teague is making while losing teague plus other pieces just doesn't seem like a bigger difference maker than keeping teague and using the money on a stud wing player.

I do recognize that we need a top level all-star at some point, but i hope we can find a better fitting star.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Jamaaliver]

Concerns about their character and heart aren't the only concerns though. Love and kyrie have probably been the two most injury prone "stars" over the past 3 years.

AL Horford has them both beat....and even when he expresses concern about it prior to injury, we call him a diva and ignore him.

Maybe we should avoid these guys if we plan on treating them with the same disdain.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Concerns about their character and heart aren't the only concerns though. Love and kyrie have probably been the two most injury prone "stars" over the past 3 years.

AL Horford has them both beat....and even when he expresses concern about it prior to injury, we call him a diva and ignore him.

Maybe we should avoid these guys if we plan on treating them with the same disdain.

You will never hear me call Horford a diva and you will never see Horford be lazy on defense like Love or Kyrie.

[Jamaaliver]

You will never hear me call Horford a diva...

Twas a couple of other posters who (for the sake of peace) shall remain nameless.

[Jamaaliver]

Buzz continues to build around the league circles that Kyrie Irving could be made available this summer as things between he and the Cavs organization are approaching an impasse.

The Cavs are making noises that they aren’t going to offer Kyrie Irving “max money’’ this summer via a long-term extension. They don’t want to deal the 2014 All-Star Game MVP, but it could come to that, especially if the West Orange product and his family continue to tell people that he wants out.

I want to go on record again stating that acquiring this kid before he even reaches his prime could be game changing, monumental step forward for the franchise.

He has flaws, but his talent is undeniable. And we finally have a coach capable of molding a young player into a superstar. Plus a veteran locker room that can keep him in line.

My biggest concern remains his injury history. But considering our declining record the last three seasons here, I'm willing to take the chance.

[Yungsta404]

I dont find it very believable that the cavs will not offer kyrie the max.

I would love to have Kyrie but Im not sure we can put the type of package the cavs are looking for.

[atlantabbq99]

Teague and #15 for Kyrie Irving..............?

[ATLHawksfan21]

What makes every one seem so sure that he would re-sign here if we did trade for him? Love and Kyrie both seem to want to play in one of the elite markets. I think at least 1 of them, if not both, ends up in Laker land.