Trade for Aaron Affalo ?

[yosemiteben]

When did this become the Hornets board? You had a Charlotte fan come over and offer us bad returns for AA and we decline. Kindly move on please.

I think when an Orlando fan tried to give a pretty flawed analysis of the current state of the Hornets franchise that includes generalizations of the fan base as "lost," that invited additional commentary.

[yosemiteben]

Kind of amusing to see the Hornets criticized as a terrible franchise with no vision and then in the same thread it being argued that they should trade a top 10 pick and potentially last year's 4 pick for a rental of a vet to help in one or two playoff runs.

I dont think anyone was sugesting trading him straight up for #9. I think it was #12 + Afflalo for #9. Which I believe would be more than fair. You know, Afflalo is an established SG who scored almost 20 PPG last year and was pretty effecient doing so, and can be a pretty tough defender. I'm not sure Doug McDermott will ever sniff that kind of production in the NBA.

Fair point, leaving off the 12 was a pretty big oversight there.

I think saying that McDermott won't ever in his career be able to score 18 ppg on 46% from the field and 42% from three is a little silly, but that doesn't undermine the great season Afflalo had. Time will tell if this season was an outlier - it makes me a little nervous that Gerald Henderson put up superior stats to Afflalo in 2012-2013.

[tiderulz]

When did this become the Hornets board? You had a Charlotte fan come over and offer us bad returns for AA and we decline. Kindly move on please.

I think when an Orlando fan tried to give a pretty flawed analysis of the current state of the Hornets franchise that includes generalizations of the fan base as "lost," that invited additional commentary.

you mean an Orlando fan, on the Orlando site, give his opinion of another team? did the Bat signal go up, calling all Hornet fans to come over here and denigrate our team and players too?

[HeartAndHustle]

Kind of amusing to see the Hornets criticized as a terrible franchise with no vision and then in the same thread it being argued that they should trade a top 10 pick and potentially last year's 4 pick for a rental of a vet to help in one or two playoff runs.

I dont think anyone was sugesting trading him straight up for #9. I think it was #12 + Afflalo for #9. Which I believe would be more than fair. You know, Afflalo is an established SG who scored almost 20 PPG last year and was pretty effecient doing so, and can be a pretty tough defender. I'm not sure Doug McDermott will ever sniff that kind of production in the NBA.

Fair point, leaving off the 12 was a pretty big oversight there.

I think saying that McDermott won't ever in his career be able to score 18 ppg on 46% from the field and 42% from three is a little silly, but that doesn't undermine the great season Afflalo had. Time will tell if this season was an outlier - it makes me a little nervous that Gerald Henderson put up superior stats to Afflalo in 2012-2013.

You act like 18 PPG on 46% FG and 42% from 3 is average!?! Care to guess how many players this season who had averaged more than 18 PPG had better percentages than that? As far as it being an outlier, check out his career stats... http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4305/career/ see a trend there?

And dont even get me started on the next Jason Kopono...

Also, not sure how Henderson was superior in 12-13.

[CraZyPraiZ]

Yes it is old. Afflalo would also be 29 by the time he played here. The rest of our team is young and talented. Afflalo has a couple decent seasons under his belt but nowhere near Al. Al is also a below the rim player who relies very little on athletic ability. If we are giving up good assets it needs to be for more than a 1 year rental. We need someone to grow with our young core.

I consider over the age of 32 old, not 28.

And Afflalo relies on his athletic ability just as much if not less than Al

Well I consider 29 old which is what AA would be here. Since the rest of our team outside of Al is young. Drafting Young or Stauskus who are better players right away and much younger would be the smart thing. AA has a late first value but feel free to hold him till he expires.

The things that come out from some of you is laughable. Both of them could not hold Affalo's jock strap right now. Well on second thought that's all they probably could do as rookies.

[yosemiteben]

I dont think anyone was sugesting trading him straight up for #9. I think it was #12 + Afflalo for #9. Which I believe would be more than fair. You know, Afflalo is an established SG who scored almost 20 PPG last year and was pretty effecient doing so, and can be a pretty tough defender. I'm not sure Doug McDermott will ever sniff that kind of production in the NBA.

Fair point, leaving off the 12 was a pretty big oversight there.

I think saying that McDermott won't ever in his career be able to score 18 ppg on 46% from the field and 42% from three is a little silly, but that doesn't undermine the great season Afflalo had. Time will tell if this season was an outlier - it makes me a little nervous that Gerald Henderson put up superior stats to Afflalo in 2012-2013.

You act like 18 PPG on 46% FG and 42% from 3 is average!?! Care to guess how many players this season who had averaged more than 18 PPG had better percentages than that? As far as it being an outlier, check out his career stats... http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4305/career/ see a trend there?

And dont even get me started on the next Jason Kopono...

Also, not sure how Henderson was superior in 12-13.

Not sure how what I said leads you to believe that I view those stats as average; it just seems pretty clear that McDermott is an elite shooter (he was 56% from the field and 45% from three as the sole scoring option on his team last season). Not sure why it's safe to assume he's incapable of ever putting up similar numbers as Afflalo did this past season.

Re Hendo and Afflalo, here are their lines from the 2012-2013 season:

Hendo - 15.5 ppg, 44.7% FG, 33.0% 3PT, 82.4% FT, 3.7 rpg, 2.6 apg, 0.5 stl, 1.0 blk, 1.0 to
Afflalo - 16.5 ppg, 43.9% FG, 30.0% 3PT, 85.7% FT, 3.7 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.6 stl, 0.2 blk, 2.2 to

Agreed that Hendo wasn't really superior - they're essentially the same player. Not sure if Afflalo's stat line last year was an aberration or a new norm.

[j-ragg]

A team that has been perennially bad makes the playoffs one time, when most other team's tank, and they all of a sudden talk like they have stars at every position. Kind of mind boggling.

[tiderulz]

Re Hendo and Afflalo, here are their lines from the 2012-2013 season:

Hendo - 15.5 ppg, 44.7% FG, 33.0% 3PT, 82.4% FT, 3.7 rpg, 2.6 apg, 0.5 stl, 1.0 blk, 1.0 to
Afflalo - 16.5 ppg, 43.9% FG, 30.0% 3PT, 85.7% FT, 3.7 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.6 stl, 0.2 blk, 2.2 to

Agreed that Hendo wasn't really superior - they're essentially the same player. Not sure if Afflalo's stat line last year was an aberration or a new norm.

new team, new role (#1 option) and he had his worst %'s in his career. Lets take a quick look at that though
08-09 - 43% FG, 40% 3 pt
09-10 - 46% FG, 43% 3 pt
10-11 - 50% FG, 42% 3 pt
11-12 - 47% FG, 40% 3 pt
12-13 - 44% FG, 30% 3 pt
13-14 - 46% FG, 42% 3 pt.

so which one looks like the aberration?

[HeartAndHustle]

Fair point, leaving off the 12 was a pretty big oversight there.

I think saying that McDermott won't ever in his career be able to score 18 ppg on 46% from the field and 42% from three is a little silly, but that doesn't undermine the great season Afflalo had. Time will tell if this season was an outlier - it makes me a little nervous that Gerald Henderson put up superior stats to Afflalo in 2012-2013.

You act like 18 PPG on 46% FG and 42% from 3 is average!?! Care to guess how many players this season who had averaged more than 18 PPG had better percentages than that? As far as it being an outlier, check out his career stats... http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4305/career/ see a trend there?

And dont even get me started on the next Jason Kopono...

Also, not sure how Henderson was superior in 12-13.

Not sure how what I said leads you to believe that I view those stats as average; it just seems pretty clear that McDermott is an elite shooter (he was 56% from the field and 45% from three as the sole scoring option on his team last season). Not sure why it's safe to assume he's incapable of ever putting up similar numbers as Afflalo did this past season.

Re Hendo and Afflalo, here are their lines from the 2012-2013 season:

Hendo - 15.5 ppg, 44.7% FG, 33.0% 3PT, 82.4% FT, 3.7 rpg, 2.6 apg, 0.5 stl, 1.0 blk, 1.0 to
Afflalo - 16.5 ppg, 43.9% FG, 30.0% 3PT, 85.7% FT, 3.7 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.6 stl, 0.2 blk, 2.2 to

Agreed that Hendo wasn't really superior - they're essentially the same player. Not sure if Afflalo's stat line last year was an aberration or a new norm.

Below average athletes that are spot up shooters who cant defend are a dime a dozen in the NBA.

RE: AA, How is getting a little better every single year in the league an aberration? You never took a stab at that question I posted about players this season with 18+ PPG with better percentages.

[yosemiteben]

Re Hendo and Afflalo, here are their lines from the 2012-2013 season:

Hendo - 15.5 ppg, 44.7% FG, 33.0% 3PT, 82.4% FT, 3.7 rpg, 2.6 apg, 0.5 stl, 1.0 blk, 1.0 to
Afflalo - 16.5 ppg, 43.9% FG, 30.0% 3PT, 85.7% FT, 3.7 rpg, 3.2 apg, 0.6 stl, 0.2 blk, 2.2 to

Agreed that Hendo wasn't really superior - they're essentially the same player. Not sure if Afflalo's stat line last year was an aberration or a new norm.

new team, new role (#1 option) and he had his worst %'s in his career. Lets take a quick look at that though
08-09 - 43% FG, 40% 3 pt
09-10 - 46% FG, 43% 3 pt
10-11 - 50% FG, 42% 3 pt
11-12 - 47% FG, 40% 3 pt
12-13 - 44% FG, 30% 3 pt
13-14 - 46% FG, 42% 3 pt.

so which one looks like the aberration?

Fair point, though with us he'd have a new team and new role, so hopefully he wouldn't see another drop in production. But agreed that comparing his last two seasons doesn't tell the whole story.

[Magic_Johnny12]

If I'm not mistaking CHARLOTTE was the rumored team that was interested in (2) of our vets not the other way around. Now that makes you think what could they offer if they're obviously interested and knowing what the Orlando management will be interested in ex. young "prospects" not just young players because we have plenty of those,picks etc. So let's assume MKG/Kemba/AJ/Zeller are off limits because they are prized possessions so that leaves you with Biyombo as the ONLY player that has any kind of value because Henderson is considered as negative value across the league and pretty injured prone.

So that leaves you with a super raw defensive young PF prospect (Good start) because that fills a need of ours but will definitely play behind OQuinn and will need years of grooming of hopes of being a 15-20 m defensive big off the bench.

Will that alone get you AA? NO

So now that you do not have any more players to give up as value you turn to picks that you conveniently have (2) in this beautiful draft #9 & #24

It was rumored Orlando was looking for a first round pick for Jameer and could easily see Jameer being traded for the #24 + filler if we get Exum

BUT if we are solely speaking on AA the only thing that makes any kind of sense is and will involve the #9 Is AA worth #9? Both sides could argue there point if he is or is not but at the end of the day the Charlotte management is intrigued with AA and will be an immediate upgrade over Henderson and any rookie you could get at #9 and is a PERFECT vet that you could put around a young core.

Something like Biyombo + #9 + filler if necessary for AA + #12 + future 2nd sounds fair for all sides.

Also how is Sac fans really interested in AA + 12 for #8 and expirings and Charlotte delusional fans laugh at the notion for #9 for the same package?

I will die if we make a deal with Charlotte and send them our OLD vets and still get there pick.

[yosemiteben]

Below average athletes that are spot up shooters who cant defend are a dime a dozen in the NBA.

Don't be silly, McD is not just a spot up shooter...

McDermott is more than just a one-dimensional shooter, as he gets his points in variety of ways, be it running the floor in transition, posting up thanks to his excellent footwork, driving to the basket with his left or right hand, or moving off the ball intelligently and diving to the paint with terrific timing. Only around 40% of McDermott's points in the half-court at the college level came off jumpers. He was surprisingly versatile with his ability to get to the free throw line and score inside the paint and from the mid-range as well. He converted a sky-high 67% of his attempts around the basket, so it will be very interesting to see how the non-shooting elements of his game translate to the NBA. He added new elements to his game every year in college, played with great intensity night in and night out, and should see even more things open up for him in the NBA with better teammates around him and less defensive attention.

[j_n]

- Biyombo is statistically the best rim protector in the league.

Only if you dont count everyone that is ahead of him, he doesnt really play enough mintues to qualify but even if you want to base that statement on his oppents fg% at the rim you have to conisder that this stat igonore fouls and that Biyombo is averaging 1.6 fouls per game in under 14 mintues per game and his opponents only attempt 4.5 shots at the rim per game so its really not possible to know how effective he is at protecting the rim based on that stat.

For example based on that stat our bigs Kyle Oquinn and Andrew Nicholson are elite rim protectors and ahead of DPOY Noah, and former Dpoy Howard, Duncan and many other known defenders like Asik, Jordan, Anthony Davis and many others but we know that they are both fouling machines that play way too physical and often force misses when they dont get called for a foul.

Another reason why ignoring fouls makes this stat inaccurate and almost useless is that Biyombo doesnt play enough mintues to ever be in foul trouble so while guys like Howard, Duncan, Hibbert, Ibaka know they cant foul when they get beat or play too physical because they might get in foul trouble, guys like Nicholson, Oquinn and Biyombo have the luxury of hacking away knowing they wont play enough to be in foul trouble.

Besides, when you play less mintues and arent really a part of your team offense like Biyombo you have way more energy than regular rotation players.

The most relevant stat to determine Biyombo's value is his mintues per game, if you cant even get as much as 14 mintues per game in your third year in the NBA you cant be considered a valuable asset, if he was he would play more.

[Radu_Hornets]

- Biyombo is statistically the best rim protector in the league.

Only if you dont count everyone that is ahead of him, he doesnt really play enough mintues to qualify but even if you want to base that statement on his oppents fg% at the rim you have to conisder that this stat igonore fouls and that Biyombo is averaging 1.6 fouls per game in under 14 mintues per game and his opponents only attempt 4.5 shots at the rim per game so its really not possible to know how effective he is at protecting the rim based on that stat.

For example based on that stat our bigs Kyle Oquinn and Andrew Nicholson are elite rim protectors and ahead of DPOY Noah, and former Dpoy Howard, Duncan and many other known defenders like Asik, Jordan, Anthony Davis and many others but we know that they are both fouling machines that play way too physical and often force misses when they dont get called for a foul.

Another reason why ignoring fouls makes this stat inaccurate and almost useless is that Biyombo doesnt play enough mintues to ever be in foul trouble so while guys like Howard, Duncan, Hibbert, Ibaka know they cant foul when they get beat or play too physical because they might get in foul trouble, guys like Nicholson, Oquinn and Biyombo have the luxury of hacking away knowing they wont play enough to be in foul trouble.

Besides, when you play less mintues and arent really a part of your team offense like Biyombo you have way more energy than regular rotation players.

The most relevant stat to determine Biyombo's value is his mintues per game, if you cant even get as much as 14 mintues per game in your third year in the NBA you cant be considered a valuable asset, if he was he would play more.

You made a valid point with the fouls thing.

The only thing I wanted to add is that if he doesn't get more minutes it's mainly because he is playing besides al Jefferson which is one of the best center in the league, so even if he get better, it will be hard for him to get more playing time...

[HeartAndHustle]

Below average athletes that are spot up shooters who cant defend are a dime a dozen in the NBA.

Don't be silly, McD is not just a spot up shooter...

McDermott is more than just a one-dimensional shooter, as he gets his points in variety of ways, be it running the floor in transition, posting up thanks to his excellent footwork, driving to the basket with his left or right hand, or moving off the ball intelligently and diving to the paint with terrific timing. Only around 40% of McDermott's points in the half-court at the college level came off jumpers. He was surprisingly versatile with his ability to get to the free throw line and score inside the paint and from the mid-range as well. He converted a sky-high 67% of his attempts around the basket, so it will be very interesting to see how the non-shooting elements of his game translate to the NBA. He added new elements to his game every year in college, played with great intensity night in and night out, and should see even more things open up for him in the NBA with better teammates around him and less defensive attention.

I can do this too...

McDermott’s athletic and physical limitations place questions about how he will translate to the NBA … Is not a very explosive or quick player, with average leaping skills … Is a tweener due to his lack of height, and his 6’6 ¼ height measurement without shoes in the combine did little to help his cause about answering questions about his ability to spend time playing the PF position at the next level … Lacks athleticism for the SF position, and not tall or long enough to play consistently at PF … Will have to rely heavily on timing and positioning to be effective at the next level … Gets his shot blocked quite a bit around the rim, and becomes much less effective the longer he has the ball in the post … Hard to imagine him getting daylight like he did at Creighton on his some of his shot attempts considering his fairly pedestrian physical skills and athleticism

I'll answer the question I keep asking for you...There was only ONE player this year with over 18 PPG with similar percentages from the field and 3 as Afflalo. It was Steph Curry, one of the best young players in todays NBA

[tranjSAIC]

Good luck. A 29 year old one year left on his contract middle of the road SG isn't going to bring a ton. Scoring a lot of a terrible team doesn't really mean much.

So why the hell are you guys coming here asking for him then?

[tranjSAIC]

Oh check my posts I don't want him. I know he is not worth it. I would not trade 9 for him and 12. Some of our fans want him because he is a better fit for us than Henderson which he is. I would rather just draft the better and younger player at 9 and move on.

Going by the track record of your GM/Front office, does another young player really help you much next season? You know exactly what you will get with Afflalo. I can understand your view as a fan though, but at some point you have to be realistic, not all draft pick pans out.

[tranjSAIC]

Good luck. A 29 year old one year left on his contract middle of the road SG isn't going to bring a ton. Scoring a lot of a terrible team doesn't really mean much.

You want a quality 29 year old starting SG but only want to give up trash though? We could, you know, keep him...

Please do.

Then get the **** off our board, lol

[bigdogdylan5]

Lock this thread up this is a disaster

[j_n]

You made a valid point with the fouls thing.

The only thing I wanted to add is that if he doesn't get more minutes it's mainly because he is playing besides al Jefferson which is one of the best center in the league, so even if he get better, it will be hard for him to get more playing time...

True, its not easy for any center to earn a lot of mintues when they play behind Al Jefferson but even in the games that Jefferson missed and Biombo started he only averaged 26 mintues per game and in those games, his foul rate and his shot blocking rate went way down which I think is a good indication of how he needed to adjust his physicality on defense as a starter knowing he cant get in foul trouble.