Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread (Part 1)

[theatlfan]

Horford + hawks 15th pick for 76ers Nerlins Noel + 10th pick + 76ers 1st round 2015 draft pick

Anyone like this?

Can't say I'm a huge fan.
1st, Unless we're trading into the top 4 of this draft or landing an established superstar, I don't really like moving Horford. Due to his injury issues, we'll only get pennies on the dollar so we'll be better off keeping him.
2nd, The package just isn't very attractive. We're basically trading Horford for a 220# C and James Young which isn't the type of deal that screams "blow it up" to me. (btw, the 15 for '15 swap should be dropped - what's the purpose of PHI getting a vet and a pick? Meanwhile, we'd prefer the pick this year anyway)
3rd, if we're going to deal for vets for rookies, then I want them coming in under our terms - i.e., behind an established vet. In this deal, we're basically praying Noel pans out or we're f#$%ed.

[No-Man]

Horford for Derrick Williams, Jason Terry, Quincy Acy and the 8th pick.

I think is a fair trade if you are considering trading Horford.
Obviously you will probably trade Millsap also, because Williams is a PF and the BPA at 8th is probably going to be a PF also.
Plus Millsap is a FA next season and I don't really see Ferry paying him big money.
You trade Millsap for Asik and a future 1st from Houston or a young player like Motiejunas, or the rights for Papanikolau.
Put Teague in the market also.

[theatlfan]

Horford for Derrick Williams, Jason Terry, Quincy Acy and the 8th pick.

I think is a fair trade if you are considering trading Horford.
Obviously you will probably trade Millsap also, because Williams is a PF and the BPA at 8th is probably going to be a PF also.
Plus Millsap is a FA next season and I don't really see Ferry paying him big money.
You trade Millsap for Asik and a future 1st from Houston or a young player like Motiejunas, or the rights for Papanikolau.
Put Teague in the market also.

What did my Hawks do to you for you to insult our players so much?

Horford for 8 and trash? Jason Rickardson landed the #8 pick a 2nd rounder in a draft that was actually comparable in the 2nd tier to this one. (For reference, I'd put out that Brandan Wright as a prospect would be comparable to the 2nd tier PFs: Vonleh, Randle, Gordon. Many not at the top but comparable.) Richardson is simply not comparable to Horford as a player when they were in their prime - not even close. Horford is worth much more than #8 and you have nothing in there to make up for that.

The counter for such an insulting offer would be Horford for 8 and Boogie Cousins.

Other comments:
- Not really looking to deal Horford. Millsap and Horford were actually statistically impressive next to each other until the injury struck. We'd need to be convinced to not give that another go.
- Maybe we don't resign Millsap, but there are other FAs in that class that cap space can land and we expect to have enough to offer max deals to the 30% group (at least).
- Well, maybe we'd take on a 1st or Montie for taking on the Asik's **** @ss contract, but now we would need to discuss what would we actually get for dealing Millsap...
- I'm sure that anyone on the team could be had, but for the values you're putting on our players... no.

[dms269]

Horford for Derrick Williams, Jason Terry, Quincy Acy and the 8th pick.

I think is a fair trade if you are considering trading Horford.
Obviously you will probably trade Millsap also, because Williams is a PF and the BPA at 8th is probably going to be a PF also.
Plus Millsap is a FA next season and I don't really see Ferry paying him big money.
You trade Millsap for Asik and a future 1st from Houston or a young player like Motiejunas, or the rights for Papanikolau.
Put Teague in the market also.

Of course you consider it fair, but to Atlanta fans it is horrible. No one we are getting back has great value. Williams is a bust, plain and simple. Saying we need to trade Millsap to make way for Williams is laughable.

8 is solid, but no where nearly enough to get Horford. Millsap, possibly, but not Horford.

[Ball4life32]

Horford for Derrick Williams, Jason Terry, Quincy Acy and the 8th pick.

I think is a fair trade if you are considering trading Horford.
Obviously you will probably trade Millsap also, because Williams is a PF and the BPA at 8th is probably going to be a PF also.
Plus Millsap is a FA next season and I don't really see Ferry paying him big money.
You trade Millsap for Asik and a future 1st from Houston or a young player like Motiejunas, or the rights for Papanikolau.
Put Teague in the market also.

So what are we trying to tank for next season? That might be the worst team in the league.

[ATL Boy]

Horford for Derrick Williams, Jason Terry, Quincy Acy and the 8th pick.

I think is a fair trade if you are considering trading Horford.
Obviously you will probably trade Millsap also, because Williams is a PF and the BPA at 8th is probably going to be a PF also.
Plus Millsap is a FA next season and I don't really see Ferry paying him big money.
You trade Millsap for Asik and a future 1st from Houston or a young player like Motiejunas, or the rights for Papanikolau.
Put Teague in the market also.

YUCK

[City of Trees]

Horford for Derrick Williams, Jason Terry, Quincy Acy and the 8th pick.

I think is a fair trade if you are considering trading Horford.
Obviously you will probably trade Millsap also, because Williams is a PF and the BPA at 8th is probably going to be a PF also.
Plus Millsap is a FA next season and I don't really see Ferry paying him big money.
You trade Millsap for Asik and a future 1st from Houston or a young player like Motiejunas, or the rights for Papanikolau.
Put Teague in the market also.

YUCK

Yeah thats pretty bad

Is Millsap for sale? What would be considered a fair trade from Sac?

[theatlfan]

Is Millsap for sale? What would be considered a fair trade from Sac?

The comp I keep refer to is the Jason Richardson deal. That deal was #8 (Brandan Wright) and a 2nd (#36, Jermareo Davidson) for Richardson. GSW's prime motivation in dealing off Richardson was $$ (they've never paid the luxury tax and they were about to start up negotiations with both Monta Ellis and Andris Beidrins) which isn't something that we're particularly concerned about.

On the ledger on our side, Millsap is a clearly better all-around player than Richardson was at the time of the deal and the pick was exercised on a similar prospect expected to be at 8. Our GM at the time actually said he would have selected Brandan Wright if the rest of the organization didn't step in and demand that we get a C and PG with our 2 lotto picks; injuries hurt his early career though). We are also uninterested in some of the value that GSW gained in the deal that could be made up elsewhere.

On the ledger on y'all's side, Richardson was a couple of years younger then than Millsap is now and Richardson did score a lot of points.

From this, I'd think a reasonable asking price would be #8 + something extra for Millsap. "Something extra" would be more than a 2nd (which the Richardson deal also netted) but I think we can agree that another lotto pick would be entirely too much. Unfortunately, I really don't know what that something extra would be though. A late-ish 1st would be nice, but I can't see us being particularly keen on waiting until '19 to just start the protection clock on it. We're already tapped for roster slots so I couldn't see us doing anything along the lines of McCallum + a 2nd.

I'll throw this out and see if it's a starting point at least:
Millsap, Schröder, Jenkins
McLemore, 8, expiring filler (Outlaw? D Williams?)

Now, McLemore had a bad year as a rookie, but no one is trying to make anyone think that he isn't more than the "something extra" that would equate to a late 1st here. I'm hoping the rumor of SAC's interest in Schröder will pique the interest. Our '12 1st rounder Jenkins (who, if healthy, could be a 3PT bomber, but his season ended early due to back surgery) would be a possible McLemore replacement. Thoughts? Adjustments?

[City of Trees]

Is Millsap for sale? What would be considered a fair trade from Sac?

The comp I keep refer to is the Jason Richardson deal. That deal was #8 (Brandan Wright) and a 2nd (#36, Jermareo Davidson) for Richardson. GSW's prime motivation in dealing off Richardson was $$ (they've never paid the luxury tax and they were about to start up negotiations with both Monta Ellis and Andris Beidrins) which isn't something that we're particularly concerned about.

On the ledger on our side, Millsap is a clearly better all-around player than Richardson was at the time of the deal and the pick was exercised on a similar prospect expected to be at 8. Our GM at the time actually said he would have selected Brandan Wright if the rest of the organization didn't step in and demand that we get a C and PG with our 2 lotto picks; injuries hurt his early career though). We are also uninterested in some of the value that GSW gained in the deal that could be made up elsewhere.

On the ledger on y'all's side, Richardson was a couple of years younger then than Millsap is now and Richardson did score a lot of points.

From this, I'd think a reasonable asking price would be #8 + something extra for Millsap. "Something extra" would be more than a 2nd (which the Richardson deal also netted) but I think we can agree that another lotto pick would be entirely too much. Unfortunately, I really don't know what that something extra would be though. A late-ish 1st would be nice, but I can't see us being particularly keen on waiting until '19 to just start the protection clock on it. We're already tapped for roster slots so I couldn't see us doing anything along the lines of McCallum + a 2nd.

I'll throw this out and see if it's a starting point at least:
Millsap, Schröder, Jenkins
McLemore, 8, expiring filler (Outlaw? D Williams?)

Now, McLemore had a bad year as a rookie, but no one is trying to make anyone think that he isn't more than the "something extra" that would equate to a late 1st here. I'm hoping the rumor of SAC's interest in Schröder will pique the interest. Our '12 1st rounder Jenkins (who, if healthy, could be a 3PT bomber, but his season ended early due to back surgery) would be a possible McLemore replacement. Thoughts? Adjustments?

First off let me acknowledge your great post. I appreciate the thought and time you put in this.

The one problem I have with you referencing the Richardson trade is that he was under contract for a few more years after the GSW trade. Millsap is due to become a free agent after this upcoming season which increases risk for the incoming team by which decreases motivation to trade for a player. My counter: I would trade #8 for Millsap or if the Kings got Orlando involved maybe you'd be interested in #12 + D. Williams for Millsap? Kings do take a big risk if he doesnt resign so im sure my other Kings buddies wont like it as much.

As for Schroeder, Im not sure where these rumors came from. I do know the Kings had talked about drafting schroeder if they traded down into the middle of the 1st. I dont see how he would represent the veteran they seek, especially after his rookie year. Adding on to that you have to look at the Kings have Isaiah Thomas and Ray McCallum at point so trading for a third PG while you have so many other needs doesnt make much sense to me?

[theatlfan]

First off let me acknowledge your great post. I appreciate the thought and time you put in this.

The one problem I have with you referencing the Richardson trade is that he was under contract for a few more years after the GSW trade. Millsap is due to become a free agent after this upcoming season which increases risk for the incoming team by which decreases motivation to trade for a player. My counter: I would trade #8 for Millsap or if the Kings got Orlando involved maybe you'd be interested in #12 + D. Williams for Millsap? Kings do take a big risk if he doesnt resign so im sure my other Kings buddies wont like it as much.

As for Schroeder, Im not sure where these rumors came from. I do know the Kings had talked about drafting schroeder if they traded down into the middle of the 1st. I dont see how he would represent the veteran they seek, especially after his rookie year. Adding on to that you have to look at the Kings have Isaiah Thomas and Ray McCallum at point so trading for a third PG while you have so many other needs doesnt make much sense to me?

I understand about the contract situations, but I think I considered it a wash. From the comp, GSW didn't want any part of Richardson's long term deal; we're happy with Millsap's contract and would have max cap room for a stellar '15 FA class. CHAR was also able to swallow Richardson's deal to create room that GSW already had earmarked elsewhere while our deal would have to match salaries. Even taking on an expiring contract like an Outlaw or a D Williams is still a wasted $$ on our end and the player would, in all likelihood, be cut. (Aside: I'd prefer to take on Outlaw, if possible, than D Williams - less $$, more "cuttable".) GSW also got a 2nd in that deal and I couldn't take less.

I think I'd stick to my guns and ask for a little something extra over #8. As I noted, expanding the deal to include Schröder+ for McLemore was a shot in the dark anyway and I understand the refusal. I'd guess there's something small that you have that we'd value without going overboard, but idk what it is. In all honesty, I'd seriously consider getting a handful of 2nds over the next few years to stock a Eurostash pipeline but y'all don't have one this year (a huge negative to this scenario) and the ones in the future years have been dealt with protections (including the most convoluted explanation I've ever seen with the '16 2nd to MIL - can you explain that in bite-sized chunks for me? Maybe a timeline? I can't figure that thing out...). Trying to figure out what this something extra is is really the point where the deal falls apart for me, so I'm open to suggestions.

[They_Them_Hatin]

Someone posted this on our board Zeller+24 for 15?

[theatlfan]

Someone posted this on our board Zeller+24 for 15?

Why are y'all so hot to get rid of Zeller? Every time I've seen a CHAR deal recently, Zeller is involved. I remember thinking it was bad that McBob was starting over him, but I figured that it was still just his rookie season. Are y'all really that intent on dumping him after one season?

[lakerhater]

Someone posted this on our board Zeller+24 for 15?

Why are y'all so hot to get rid of Zeller? Every time I've seen a CHAR deal recently, Zeller is involved. I remember thinking it was bad that McBob was starting over him, but I figured that it was still just his rookie season. Are y'all really that intent on dumping him after one season?

Good point theatlfan. You know I'm always looking into the trade board as well as many teams' boards and I think you're correct in your assessment that there's a trend of CHA fans wanting to dump Zeller.

[the_process]

What about this ATL fans?

ATL gets Nash, Kanter
LAL gets Millsap
UTA gets 7, L. Williams

Totally sucky, or reasonable? Any improvements? Suggestions?

[theatlfan]

What about this ATL fans?

ATL gets Nash, Kanter
LAL gets Millsap
UTA gets 7, L. Williams

Totally sucky, or reasonable? Any improvements? Suggestions?

2 issues:
1st, I'd contest contest that comps prove that Millsap is worth more than 7 - so forth being forced to eat ~$10M for Nash's corpse on top.
2nd, Kanter hasn't proven to be a starter caliber player after 3 years in the league so I can't see him as the primary return for an AS either.

I like Kanter and wouldn't mind taking a shot on him, but I can't see this particular deal as remotely close.

[the_process]

What about this ATL fans?

ATL gets Nash, Kanter
LAL gets Millsap
UTA gets 7, L. Williams

Totally sucky, or reasonable? Any improvements? Suggestions?

2 issues:
1st, I'd contest contest that comps prove that Millsap is worth more than 7 - so forth being forced to eat ~$10M for Nash's corpse on top.
2nd, Kanter hasn't proven to be a starter caliber player after 3 years in the league so I can't see him as the primary return for an AS either.

I like Kanter and wouldn't mind taking a shot on him, but I can't see this particular deal as remotely close.

Is this any better?

ATL gets Kanter, 23
LAL gets Millsap, L. Williams
UTA gets 7, Nash

[theatlfan]

What about this ATL fans?

ATL gets Nash, Kanter
LAL gets Millsap
UTA gets 7, L. Williams

Totally sucky, or reasonable? Any improvements? Suggestions?

2 issues:
1st, I'd contest contest that comps prove that Millsap is worth more than 7 - so forth being forced to eat ~$10M for Nash's corpse on top.
2nd, Kanter hasn't proven to be a starter caliber player after 3 years in the league so I can't see him as the primary return for an AS either.

I like Kanter and wouldn't mind taking a shot on him, but I can't see this particular deal as remotely close.

Is this any better?

ATL gets Kanter, 23
LAL gets Millsap, L. Williams
UTA gets 7, Nash

it's better. Still wouldn't deal Millsap for it though.

The biggest issue is that for me to do this deal, I have to view Kanter as somewhat equivalent to #7... And I just don't. I like him, but the fact is that my interest would be more along the lines of future lotto protected 1st than immediate top 10 pick. IF UTH decides that their future front court doesn't have room for Kanter and is willing to get a mid to late 1st for him then things get interesting.

[Jamaaliver]

Is this any better?

ATL gets Kanter, 23
LAL gets Millsap, L. Williams
UTA gets 7, Nash

I would do this trade in heartbeat. Everyday of the week. And twice on Sundays.

Millsap and Lou are both expiring contracts leaving next summer for absolutely nothing. The chance to gain control of a promising young big man still on his rookie contract, pick up a another 1st rounder AND gain $8 million in cap space to pursue another top free agent...PRICELESS.

Seems like a no-brainer to me:

A. Suffer another mediocre season and let them walk away for nothing

or

B. Trade them for low cost assets that can be developed or packaged in future trades.

If we were a true contender for a title, I'd say hold on to PM. But since we're not, AND he will likely be walking out the door in less than a year for nothing...count me in.

[azuresou1]

But the real question is not whether we need to retain Millsap, but whether Millsap can be traded for something more valuable. For instance, I'd rather have the #5 pick and a 2nd rounder than Kanter and 23.

Revised proposal:

Atlanta gets #5, Nash
LAL gets Millsap, L. Williams
UTA gets #7, Atlanta 2nd (#43), future Lakers 2nd

[theatlfan]

Is this any better?

ATL gets Kanter, 23
LAL gets Millsap, L. Williams
UTA gets 7, Nash

I would do this trade in heartbeat. Everyday of the week. And twice on Sundays.

Millsap and Lou are both expiring contracts leaving next summer for absolutely nothing. The chance to gain control of a promising young big man still on his rookie contract, pick up a another 1st rounder AND gain $8 million in cap space to pursue another top free agent...PRICELESS.

Seems like a no-brainer to me:

A. Suffer another mediocre season and let them walk away for nothing

or

B. Trade them for low cost assets that can be developed or packaged in future trades.

If we were a true contender for a title, I'd say hold on to PM. But since we're not, AND he will likely be walking out the door in less than a year for nothing...count me in.

The problem I have with this is who are we going to go after in FA: Monroe? Melo? I'd prefer to have an AS like Millsap to SNT for any RFAs including Monroe as well as my personal favorite in Parsons. As far as Melo, I'm not necessarily too high on him, but even if you are, it's a pipe dream. A player who is a star in a big market can make so much more in advertising dollars that it dwarfs their NBA contract... and that's just for the local market. It's one thing to ask someone who has basically already been renounced to take less dollars since his options are very limited in terms of what teams (and motives) he can pick from, but it's much different when you're asking someone already established and wanted in a bigger market to leave for a smaller one.

The corollary problem is that if we have too much cap room, then we'll need to spend it to get back over the salary floor and the real FA prizes don't come until next off-season (this is actually my guess as to why Millsap expires then anyway...). Sure, we could sign someone to a 1-yr deal, but that doesn't seem to be the avenue that Ferry prefers to go in. He doesn't want rent-a-player who are more interested in rehabbing their value than buying into the team concept so he wants to find his values and lock them up.

So, I guess if there's a realistic target in FA, then I wouldn't mind taking pennies on the dollar for Millsap, but is there really a realistic target that we'd need > the $10M we already have to make a run at?

But the real question is not whether we need to retain Millsap, but whether Millsap can be traded for something more valuable. For instance, I'd rather have the #5 pick and a 2nd rounder than Kanter and 23.

Revised proposal:

Atlanta gets #5, Nash
LAL gets Millsap, L. Williams
UTA gets #7, Atlanta 2nd (#43), future Lakers 2nd

Unfortunately, this would kill any motivation that UTH would have to be in the deal though.