Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread (Part 1)

[They_Them_Hatin]

Someone posted this on our board Zeller+24 for 15?

Why are y'all so hot to get rid of Zeller? Every time I've seen a CHAR deal recently, Zeller is involved. I remember thinking it was bad that McBob was starting over him, but I figured that it was still just his rookie season. Are y'all really that intent on dumping him after one season?

I'm still mad we picked him over Noel. I wanted Noel badly still do he would have been perfect next to Al. I really want McDermott at 9 and get whichever so falls because we need scoring. We think he will be solid though he was coming along at the end of the season.

[ARHornet]

Someone posted this on our board Zeller+24 for 15?

Why are y'all so hot to get rid of Zeller? Every time I've seen a CHAR deal recently, Zeller is involved. I remember thinking it was bad that McBob was starting over him, but I figured that it was still just his rookie season. Are y'all really that intent on dumping him after one season?

Basically, outside of our picks, he's our best trade asset. Kemba and Al aren't going anywhere. Henderson doesn't have any value. The fan base is torn on MKG. But that leaves Zeller our best asset. Compared to the other rookies last year, Zeller was a solid pick. But a lot of fans view him as not much more than a career energy big off the bench. So the thought is sell high while he still has good trade value as a recent top 5 pick.

McBob is a much better player than Zeller by the way.

[Jamaaliver]

But the real question is not whether we need to retain Millsap, but whether Millsap can be traded for something more valuable. For instance, I'd rather have the #5 pick and a 2nd rounder than Kanter and 23.

Fair question. GREAT Point.
(I think I'm just higher on Kanter than you are.)

Sure, we could sign someone to a 1-yr deal, but that doesn't seem to be the avenue that Ferry prefers to go in. He doesn't want rent-a-player who are more interested in rehabbing their value than buying into the team concept so he wants to find his values and lock them up.

You mean like Brand. Devin. Millsap. Demarre.

Pretty much EVERY player Ferry has acquired through trade or free agency has been a rent-a-player for 2 seasons or less. (The notable exceptions being Korver and Lou Williams.)

All I've seen Ferry due is bide time with solid players whose stock was lower than it should be. And then watch them walk away after a short 1 or 2 years here.

I've read everywhere that Ferry is hunting for another piece this summer. He's done everything to get us as flexible salary cap wise as possible. Yet we all seem hesitant to actually pull the trigger on anything.

Odd considering we had a losing record last year and most of the players have been a part of the org for less than a year.

[Melvinlocker]

Hey guys! I'm a Magic fan coming in peace.

Saw on WT that Horford might be available and was wondering if there is a trade package the Magic could offer to pry him from your team. The only assets on our team that would be really hard to pry away from us are Dipo and Vucevic and maybe # 4.

What would you want for Horford from the Magic?

[Jamaaliver]

Hey guys! I'm a Magic fan coming in peace.

Saw on WT that Horford might be available and was wondering if there is a trade package the Magic could offer to pry him from your team. The only assets on our team that would be really hard to pry away from us are Dipo and Vucevic and maybe # 4.

What would you want for Horford from the Magic?

lol

Oladipo, Vucevic or #4.

Sorry. There's not much else on you guys roster worth giving up our best player...

[Melvinlocker]

Hey guys! I'm a Magic fan coming in peace.

Saw on WT that Horford might be available and was wondering if there is a trade package the Magic could offer to pry him from your team. The only assets on our team that would be really hard to pry away from us are Dipo and Vucevic and maybe # 4.

What would you want for Horford from the Magic?

lol

Oladipo, Vucevic or #4.

Sorry. There's not much else on you guys roster worth giving up our best player...

I think we could part with one of them, it's just not likely we'd part with more than 2 in a package deal. We also have Tobias, O'Quinn and a war chest of draft picks from the Howard trade along with our own future picks.

[Jamaaliver]

Hey guys! I'm a Magic fan coming in peace.

Saw on WT that Horford might be available and was wondering if there is a trade package the Magic could offer to pry him from your team. The only assets on our team that would be really hard to pry away from us are Dipo and Vucevic and maybe # 4.

What would you want for Horford from the Magic?

lol

Oladipo, Vucevic or #4.

Sorry. There's not much else on you guys roster worth giving up our best player...

I think we could part with one of them, it's just not likely we'd part with more than 2 in a package deal. We also have Tobias, O'Quinn and a war chest of draft picks from the Howard trade along with our own future picks.

You be willing to include Nicholson and Vucevic for Horford and and spare change...I imagine our GM would at least have to CONSIDER some variation of that deal.

[Melvinlocker]

lol

Oladipo, Vucevic or #4.

Sorry. There's not much else on you guys roster worth giving up our best player...

I think we could part with one of them, it's just not likely we'd part with more than 2 in a package deal. We also have Tobias, O'Quinn and a war chest of draft picks from the Howard trade along with our own future picks.

You be willing to include Nicholson and Vucevic for Horford and and spare change...I imagine our GM would at least have to consider some variotion of that deal.

We are getting somewhere. Mind if I counter?

Horford for Tobias, jameer (non guaranteed deal to make salaries work), O'Quinn, #12 this year and any other pick we own with a top 5 protection (we own a lakers first, Sixers first and our own firsts).

Heck I'll even throw in Nicholson.

[azuresou1]

Vucevic and Harris will be RFAs next offseason, we can just bid on them then.

My offer would be Horford for Vucevic AND the #4, and TBH I'd be borderline on that one. Centers are rare; good centers are even rarer. Vucevic has some promise but I don't think he'll ever be on the same level as Horford.

[Melvinlocker]

Vucevic and Harris will be RFAs next offseason, we can just bid on them then.

My offer would be Horford for Vucevic AND the #4, and TBH I'd be borderline on that one. Centers are rare; good centers are even rarer. Vucevic has some promise but I don't think he'll ever be on the same level as Horford.

Gotta be honest, I think that is a bit much even for someone as good as Horford. More than likely you would be getting either Parker or Exum with 4 which by itself is a really good haul. I think Vuc could be something special but that's just me. We will probably just have to agree to disagree.

Thanks for humoring me!

[Jamaaliver]

We are getting somewhere. Mind if I counter?

Horford for Tobias, jameer (non guaranteed deal to make salaries work), O'Quinn, #12 this year and any other pick we own with a top 5 protection (we own a lakers first, Sixers first and our own firsts).

Heck I'll even throw in Nicholson.

And suddenly all incentive to trade away our best player...is gone. I understand Horford's stock is low due to frequent injury, but this has very little upside for us.

[ATLHawksfan21]

I have to agree with Jamaal and Azu here. I'm only interested in trading Horford if it's for an upgrade. The package will have to be sweet if we are dumping him for players with "potential" as Horford as already realized his potential and he is on a great contract.

[MaceCase]

I think we could part with one of them, it's just not likely we'd part with more than 2 in a package deal. We also have Tobias, O'Quinn and a war chest of draft picks from the Howard trade along with our own future picks.

You be willing to include Nicholson and Vucevic for Horford and and spare change...I imagine our GM would at least have to consider some variotion of that deal.

We are getting somewhere. Mind if I counter?

Horford for Tobias, jameer (non guaranteed deal to make salaries work), O'Quinn, #12 this year and any other pick we own with a top 5 protection (we own a lakers first, Sixers first and our own firsts).

Heck I'll even throw in Nicholson.

#4 and #12, Harris with Nelson's deal and perhaps some "lesser of" of your 2017 picks for Horford and our #15 or Schroder if you prefer.

You're giving up your picks, sure, but us throwing in ours or a prospect should lessen that some. Horford should definitely garner the #4 so any scenario needs to lead with that as the baseline

[theatlfan]

Sure, we could sign someone to a 1-yr deal, but that doesn't seem to be the avenue that Ferry prefers to go in. He doesn't want rent-a-player who are more interested in rehabbing their value than buying into the team concept so he wants to find his values and lock them up.

You mean like Brand. Devin. Millsap. Demarre.

Pretty much EVERY player Ferry has acquired through trade or free agency has been a rent-a-player for 2 seasons or less. (The notable exceptions being Korver and Lou Williams.)

Some caveats here: we traded for Harris when we dumped Marvin (and some others when we dumped JJ); Demarre's contract actually was the max length for the exception we wanted to use to sign him. Still though, this is a fair point. I guess I just don't see Millsap as a Kaman type of rent-a-player contract, but I can definitely see a different viewpoint here.

All I've seen Ferry due is bide time with solid players whose stock was lower than it should be. And then watch them walk away after a short 1 or 2 years here.

Now this is a little unfair. Ferry has been here for 2 off-seasons and in the 1st, it was obvious that his top priority wasn't team building. Unless you count the filler in the JJ and Marvin salary dumps or some end of the bench role player types, the only guy he's really let walk is Josh Smith (love him or hate him, his situation here was getting toxic). Now, sure, there's nothing saying that Millsap won't walk after next season, but I guess I'm not as worried about it as some are. Millsap took our offer because he didn't want to be the best player on a losing team, why would he change his mind two years later? If we want him, I highly doubt that we don't retain him.

I've read everywhere that Ferry is hunting for another piece this summer. He's done everything to get us as flexible salary cap wise as possible. Yet we all seem hesitant to actually pull the trigger on anything.

Odd considering we had a losing record last year and most of the players have been a part of the org for less than a year.

While I do agree that Ferry could have made some bolder moves at points, I also truly believe that he's holding out for his guy that he's going to build around. Ferry has shown repeatedly in deals that he will not take a bad contract right now and I do think that is, at least in part, due him still looking for his centerpiece. If Ferry gets his centerpiece and continues to drag his feet or pulls a Morey and takes 7 years to get his centerpiece, then I can see the complaints but we're just coming into his 3rd offseason for a team that had arguably the worst contracts in the NBA when he came in, so complaining about his inability to find his centerpiece just seems a bit early for me.

Still though, this conversation is starting to go astray. The ? again is who in this year's FA crop is worth us ridding ourselves of another $8M in salary for? We actually a little tight with roster slots, so we're best off just throwing all the $$ in one place. Realistic options here, nothing too pie in the sky. I've already said Melo is a no go - I just can't see a borderline megastar take less $$ to leave a huge market. I admit I was stunned when Dwight left LA but I would use him as the exception that proves the rule. The RFA market (Monroe, Hayward, Parsons) is pretty much out. Even if we can agree to them on a palatable deal, their current team will match. Stephenson is really the only guy who I could see us having a realistic chance of stealing from his current team and has the potential to be a star level player, but he's a head case and I wouldn't think we'd need the extra $$ to sign him anyway...

[Jamaaliver]

Millsap took our offer because he didn't want to be the best player on a losing team, why would he change his mind two years later? If we want him, I highly doubt that we don't retain him.

Mark my words. Houston is coming hard for Millsap. If they don't get him in trade this season, they sign him next summer as the perfect front court mate for Dwight.

Still though, this conversation is starting to go astray. The ? again is who in this year's FA crop is worth us ridding ourselves of another $8M in salary for?

My plan for trading Teague:

Draft Saric and stash him overseas for another season. Sign Kyle Lowry to a deal similar to Teague's.

I'd also be okay with signing any of P Gasol, Luol Deng, Ariza, Gortat, Blatche, Livingston, Greivis Vazquez, Boris Diaw, Jordan Hill, Devin Harris.

To me, Kyle Lowry + Saric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Teague.

[theatlfan]

Millsap took our offer because he didn't want to be the best player on a losing team, why would he change his mind two years later? If we want him, I highly doubt that we don't retain him.

Mark my words. Houston is coming hard for Millsap. If they don't get him in trade this season, they sign him next summer as the perfect front court mate for Dwight.

Will they have the funds? Assuming Parsons gets $10M per this offseason, HOU will be around $48M for just Dwight, Harden, and Parsons next off-season. Sure, there's not much else on the roster, but I also don't think they decline options on T Jones, Motiejunas, or renounce Beverly either... so forth any $$ they spend in FA this off-season.

OTOH, if HOU wants him that badly, then I'd have no problem shipping Millsap off for Parsons during the moratorium. Just think that a Parsons/Korver/Carroll rotation would be a very nice wing rotation and we open up a big man slot for the defensive C that everyone seems to be pining for.

Still though, this conversation is starting to go astray. The ? again is who in this year's FA crop is worth us ridding ourselves of another $8M in salary for?

My plan for trading Teague:

Draft Saric and stash him overseas for another season. Sign Kyle Lowry to a deal similar to Teague's.

I'd also be okay with signing any of P Gasol, Luol Deng, Ariza, Gortat, Blatche, Livingston, Greivis Vazquez, Boris Diaw, Jordan Hill, Devin Harris.

To me, Kyle Lowry + Saric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Teague.

Sorry, maybe it's the hour, but I'm not sure I completely follow this... I get the idea to sign Lowry. But is Saric the pick @ 15 or did we trade for him? Was Teague the one we dealt for him? Who else did we get (@ 15 or in the deal with Teague)? It's an interesting basis for sure, just don't know if I get all the moving parts yet.

The one thing here that I would point out though is that I think we'd have the cap room to sign any one of the guys you have on your list without making cap room though. We have 8 guaranteed contracts and 6 more cheap guys with contracts we can get out of in Mack (RFA), Scott (RFA), Antic (unguaranteed contract), Muscala (unguaranteed contract), Nogueira (1st round cap hold), and our 1st this month (1st round cap hold). That's 14 bodies (roster limit is 15) and we'd be around $10M under the cap. If you wanted a little extra, then we get another $3-4M more to play with by doing some financial gymnastics to the aforementioned 6. (Aside: Note that this means that we cut ties with 3 guys - Brand, Ayon, Martin - who we would have absolutely loved to keep under BK or Sund...)

There might not actually be anyone on your list that would get a 1st year salary in that $10M range but I personally think that Lowry, Deng, and maybe P Gasol should be close. H3ll if you're leaving the 1st overseas, then it wouldn't surprise me if we could fit another name from the rest of your list along with one of those 3.

This is why I keep carping on that point: I don't understand why it would be advantageous for us to have more cap room this offseason. IF we honestly thought we had a shot at Melo (and the decision makers were on board with such a move) then I could see cutting out the extra jack and making a run, but after him... then who? Maybe Lebron? I just don't understand why cap room would be precious to us for this offseason.

[Melvinlocker]

We are getting somewhere. Mind if I counter?

Horford for Tobias, jameer (non guaranteed deal to make salaries work), O'Quinn, #12 this year and any other pick we own with a top 5 protection (we own a lakers first, Sixers first and our own firsts).

Heck I'll even throw in Nicholson.

And suddenly all incentive to trade away our best player...is gone. I understand Horford's stock is low due to frequent injury, but this has very little upside for us.

The reason he has been injured so often is the reason I am low balling. That is not to mention Horford guaranteed to be on any given team for two years and he could leave (at least we can match offers if we think they are worthwhile). The flip side of that is he could also be riddled with injuries for those two years and be a contract that restricts a team in free agency. For all of Horford's upside (the reason that I want the Magic to trade for him) there are still some factors to consider from the Magic's side. I still think Horford is a elite big when he is healthy, it just happens to be a question mark right now.

[Melvinlocker]

You be willing to include Nicholson and Vucevic for Horford and and spare change...I imagine our GM would at least have to consider some variotion of that deal.

We are getting somewhere. Mind if I counter?

Horford for Tobias, jameer (non guaranteed deal to make salaries work), O'Quinn, #12 this year and any other pick we own with a top 5 protection (we own a lakers first, Sixers first and our own firsts).

Heck I'll even throw in Nicholson.

#4 and #12, Harris with Nelson's deal and perhaps some "lesser of" of your 2017 picks for Horford and our #15 or Schroder if you prefer.

You're giving up your picks, sure, but us throwing in ours or a prospect should lessen that some. Horford should definitely garner the #4 so any scenario needs to lead with that as the baseline

How about #4, Nelson, Nicholson,Harkless for Horford?

I even hesitate to give up that much because while #4 could bust it could also yield us a superstar. While Horford could come back and play like his former self, he could just as easily be injury riddled for the next two years and we would be stuck in mediocrity. Adding more prospects and picks makes it that much harder to swallow.

[Jamaaliver]

How about #4, Nelson, Nicholson,Harkless for Horford?

I even hesitate to give up that much because while #4 could bust it could also yield us a superstar. While Horford could come back and play like his former self, he could just as easily be injury riddled for the next two years and we would be stuck in mediocrity. Adding more prospects and picks makes it that much harder to swallow.

I think we have an accord.

Horford next to Vucevic would give you guys a truly intimidating front court. A veteran locker room leader. A box office draw from his championship days at UF. Hell, with those two guys plus Oladipo...I might actually have to become a Magic Fan. That'd be a solid core for sure.

[Melvinlocker]

How about #4, Nelson, Nicholson,Harkless for Horford?

I even hesitate to give up that much because while #4 could bust it could also yield us a superstar. While Horford could come back and play like his former self, he could just as easily be injury riddled for the next two years and we would be stuck in mediocrity. Adding more prospects and picks makes it that much harder to swallow.

I think we have an accord.

Horford next to Vucevic would give you guys a truly intimidating front court. A veteran locker room leader. A box office draw from his championship days at UF. Hell, with those two guys plus Oladipo...I might actually have to become a Magic Fan. That'd be a solid core for sure.

Cool. I think if there is a deal to be had it would look like the one above.

You guys are no longer in mediocrity and move forward with a clear direction of youth( if I remember correctly you guys got a great haul of picks from Brooklyn) being augmented by your quality vets (your GM did an excellent job with keeping Korver IMO). The Magic would be able to come out of their rebuild rather smoothly ( given that Horford is playing PF and is healthy) while still being able to develop our youth plus all the other stuff you described.