2013-14 Official POY Voting (LeBron wins for the 5th time)

[Doctor MJ]

Soon approaches the time to award our yearly Ballon d'Orange!



This is our award for the overall most best year's worth of performance for NBA players, much like soccer gives such an award not based on any particular league performance but rather the whole body of work.

This means it's not just about regular season or post-season. It does mean though that it's tied to what a player actually showed this year, rather what he might have done if things had been better/fair/etc. It is meant to be closely related to the value the player actually contributes to his team, though there is some wiggle room there that I can clarify as needed.

When you vote, you will list out your top 5 like so:

1. Tony Wroten
2. Diante Garrett
3. John Lucas
4. Dennis Schroder
5. Tyshawn Taylor

Followed by any explanation you'd care to give (please give your basic reasoning at the very least).

Voting will be counted with the same weighting as the NBA MVP: 10-7-5-3-1.

This thread will now be locked until voting opens after the Finals. Continue the discussion in the Discussion thread until that time. PM me if you'd like a vote. Note that I'm not going to give votes to guys who just show up out of nowhere. I'll be looking at the Discussion thread to see whether you've been a part of it, although for some long-timers I already know you're legit.

Voters:

1. Doctor MJ
2. PaulieWai
3. rich316
4. Texas Chuck
5. MisterHibachi
6. JordansBulls
7. Reservoirdawgs
8. Joao Saraiva
9. Colbinii
10. bondom
11. SideshowBob
12. RSCD3_
13. Mutnt
14. therealbig3
15. Quotatious
16. fpiii
17. trex_8063
18. Dr. Positivity
19. penbeast0
20. GSP
21. sp6r=underrated
22. ronnymac2
23. ardee
24. lorak
25. narigo
26. ElGee
27. CBA
28. JLei
29. O_6

Voting Pool Now Closed

[Doctor MJ]

Okay, voting is now open to those on the list.

Please refrain from having debates here. Try to make it as easy for me to tally up as possible (if you change your vote, edit your post, don't add a second voting post).

The discussion thread is still open and should be used for continued debate:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1316581

Expecting to give people until late Friday night to get their votes in.

[therealbig3]

1. LeBron James (playoffs sealed it)
2. Kevin Durant (monster regular season, but underwhelming playoffs imo)
3. Stephen Curry (CP3's missed time makes me lean towards Curry)
4. Blake Griffin (see above)
5. Chris Paul (see above)

[JordansBulls]

1. Kevin Durant (too great of a season and lost to superior team, but in the process beat a team with a higher SRS rating as well, led in all aggregate metrics and scoring. Competition faced in the playoffs was far superior as well).

2. Lebron James (great in the playoffs, but the difference in the season compared to Durant was not enough to overtake him even though Lebron's playoffs was great. Lost to superior team as well. He would have needed to win it all to overtake Durant since Durant led in all aggregate metrics in the season. )

3. Blake Griffin (Was ideal when CP3 was out and kept the team going. 13-7 without CP3 around)

4. Steph Curry (The catalyst for the Warriors all season long)

5. Dwight Howard

HM: Paul George

[bondom34]

Takin the plunge:


1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Griffin
4. Paul
5. Curry

See the discussion thread for 1/2 reasoning, but Griffin beats Paul based on time missed and Griffin's play to keep LAC going in that time. After that I have Curry ahead of the remainder based on play being approximately equal but with greater team success.

[PaulieWal]

My rankings were pretty much posted in the discussion thread and I feel comfortable with sticking with it. I did end up switching Griffin and Paul.

1. LeBron (absolute beast in the playoffs, defense was pretty good for the most part, absolute offensive peak).
2. KD (Great RS, I am not that surprised with the drop in efficiency because he played tougher defenses but I was surprised to see the drop in his defense and playmaking which we saw improve in the RS. You have to give him some leeway because of the minutes played but he was really up and down in the post-season).
3. Griffin (Saw him improve as a player in the RS and I think he will be a legit MVP candidate going forward).
4. CP (Missed games in the RS but still an amazing floor general. Had he not made a few mistakes at the end of game 5, we could have had a Clips-Spurs WCF).
5. Curry (Had a good RS though I feel the team's offense was limited by the coach).

[Dr Positivity]

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Paul George
4. Blake Griffin
5. Chris Paul

My order of best players in the league would go Lebron, Durant, Paul, George, Blake. However in light of his missed games I'm fine with bumping Chris Paul down to 5 of that group for this year.

Lebron v Durant. I feel strongly about voting Lebron. Other than the fact that I feel he has the more valuable skillset due to his defense, passing and post play meaning more than Durant's strengths over him, the playoff statistical advantage is large and he was better against their common opponent the Spurs. To me Durant's playoff performance was on the whole underrated however.

George has become a non-sexy choice however I feel his impact on the game is still massive, as both an elite defender and a cerebral, skilled offensive player who can shoot and space the floor, drive to the basket/FT line, in a system where he has to carry a burden. Yes it's true that the second half of the season George isn't near worth top 5 on this list, but his first few months of the year he was closer to Lebron and Durant than anybody else in value. On the net his regular season value still ended up high because of this, while his playoff numbers were good.

Paul and Blake are magnificent offensive forces who I feel are solid if not + defensive players, which separates them from Harden and Curry who are also in the mix for being in the top 3 or 4 offensive players.

[ardee]

Ok, here goes.

1. Kevin Durant: I think the recency bias has led to so many LeBron at no. 1 votes. I don't completely disagree, he has a case, but people are forgetting just HOW DAMN GOOD KD was for a majority of the regular season.

2. LeBron James: see above. No shame in this, he's probably one of the strongest no. 2s ever. And fwiw he may actually be the better player in a vacuum (probably is actually) but I'm basing this off performance, not potential. Hence KD tops this.

3. Chris Paul: missed games aside, he was phenomenal when he played and an utter beast in the Playoffs. Might be biased because I was at probably his best game of the season (28/15 with I think 7 steals against Detroit), but based on how he played when he was healthy I think it gives him the edge over everyone else).

4. Kevin Love: Plus-Minus numbers say it all, he was terrific. Can't be blamed for his supporting cast. I think this guy has Dirk/KG like potential on the right team.

5. Blake Griffin: 3/4/5 are all pretty close. He could be higher but I think his Playoffs fell slightly short what I thought he was capable of given his Paul-less stretch in the RS.

Super super HM: Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook

Super HM: Dirk Nowitzki, LaMarcus Aldridge

HM: Anthony Davis, Tim Duncan

Key guy for the whole NBA season but doesn't can't be voted for: Gregg Popovich.

[Mutnt]

My vote stays the same:

1.LeBron
2.Durant
3.Paul
4.Curry
5.Love

[trex_8063]

1. Lebron James (rs edge to Durant, but after playoffs, I'm giving James the slight edge)
2. Kevin Durant
3. Blake Griffin
4. Chris Paul (CP3 would be my #3 if not for missed games).
5. Kevin Love

fwiw, Steph Curry would by my #6 (3-6 all super-close for me, btw; 1 and 2 are extremely close, too, for that matter). Other top HM's are probably Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard (was really impressed with his playoff performance), and James Harden.

[Colbinii]

1. LeBron - Had the most impact out of all players and gives you a best shot at a title
2. Durant - Had one of the best seasons in recent memory
3. Love - 2nd best Rebounder, 3rd best Scorer, worst supporting cast BY FAR out of anyone being mentioned for this list.
4. Griffin - Carried the Clippers when CP3 went out and didn't miss games like CP3 or Westbrook
5. CP3 - Was that much better than Curry even though he missed games.

Honorable Mention: Curry, Westbrook, Davis, Howard, Aldridge

It is nice to see a lot of people not weighing one playoff series more than the regular season a la Aldridge.

[colts18]

For me I would go:

1. LeBron
2. Durant

Gap

3. Griffin- Led league in plus/minus. Amazing job of carrying the Clippers while CP3 was out
4. Curry- Awesome year leading a team that had no depth whatsoever. They could have been a finalist if they were healthy
5. CP3- Another brilliant year. Would rank higher if he played more minutes.

[MisterHibachi]

My vote:

1. LeBron James. He had a great RS, great impact, and the PS just really reaffirmed the idea that he was by far the best and most impactful player in the league.

2. Kevin Durant. Needs no explanation.

3. Blake Griffin. Improved tremendously as a player. Skill set was much improved. Really liked how the Clips managed to stay afloat with Paul out. He was an MVP candidate and in my opinion the 3rd best player in the RS season.

4. Stephen Curry. Amazing offensive player, bends the defense like few others. With a better coach, they could've beaten the Clips and made a deeper run.

5. Chris Paul. Despite missing 20 games in the RS, I think his overall impact was still top 5 in the league. The PS further reaffirmed my opinion that he is the best PG in the league. If not for a few brain cramps in game 5, he would've had a shot at the Finals (I think Clippers had the best chance to knock the Spurs off).

[Texas Chuck]

First, I want to say I appreciate getting a vote.

1. Im taking Durant. I understand a lot of the arguments for Lebron and I still think he's the better player, but I think Durant had the best year. His RS was just flat better imo. Lebron was better in the PS, but I still maintain Durant wasn't nearly as bad as people tried to portray him.

2. Lebron. Nothing more to add. He's the best player in the world, but Durant simply had a better year.

3. Blake Griffin. Never been a big fan of this guy, but he had a monster year, and he made some major steps forward in his game. Yes Chris Paul is still the best player on his team, but he didnt have a better year than Blake did.

4. Kevin Love -- I'm still not totally sold on this guy, but its impossible to ignore those numbers and every time I watched him play this year, he looked like one of the best players on the floor every single night. In prior years I'd watch him play and outside of his rebounding be underwhelmed and then see a huge box score and wonder how I missed it. This year he just seemed more impactful to me.

5. Howard -- I think he was the best big true big this year.

HM: Wall(yep I'm sticking to this--laugh all you want), LMA, George, Curry, Paul, Noah)

[Quotatious]

1. LeBron James (had Durant 1st after the regular season, but James had an amazing playoff run, while Durant was disappointing in the PS, and I see the difference between them as clearly bigger in the playoffs, than it was in the RS, the other way)

2. Kevin Durant (still rather close to LeBron, but it's close yet clear that he should be below LBJ, and even with that being said, I probably gave KD a bit bigger advantage based on RS, as there's some evidence, like RAPM, that it would be justifiable to rank James higher than Durant even based on RS - still, this two are very comfortably ahead of anyone else)

3. Chris Paul, still ahead of Griffin. My theory is that Paul is still rather clearly a better player than Blake, and him missing 20 games isn't a big deal, because he had previously shown that he's capable of playing full 80 game seasons at this level, and proved again in the playoffs this year that he can play on that level on a consistent basis. I think CP3 was better than Griffin in the postseason, which would close the gap (not entirely, but at least to some extent) that might exist based on Paul's missed games (because even when both were healthy in the RS, I thought that Paul was better than Griffin, yet it was likely close enough that CP3's 18 more missed games had shifted it in Griffin's favor, based on the RS alone.

4. Blake Griffin

5. Paul George - I had him in my top 10 even after the RS, and his playoff performance was pretty impressive (and it's not like it was a small sample size) - two-way player, even certainly held his own against LeBron in the ECF. I just prefer two-way players over offensive greats, but poor defenders like Curry, Love or Harden. Dwight Howard would be my #6, and I have to admit that I wasn't that sure about putting George ahead of him for #5.

[ronnymac2]

1. LeBron James — He's the best player on the planet. There is no question in my mind he gives you the best chance to win a title in 2014.

2. Kevin Durant — The rightful MVP. Amazing season by KD.

3. Stephen Curry — He had to do an enormous amount of heavy lifting for a GSW team that was saddled with injury to key players, regression of Harrison Barnes, and having no backup for a decent amount of the season. After Bogut went down, the Warriors had no shot against a team as great as LAC. Only reason it went 7 is because GSW was gifted Game 4 after the Sterling tape came out. Clippers played in their head that game. One of the most unusual circumstances in NBA history. But to get to my point, Curry still played balls out in the Clipper series without a key piece. He barely edges out Blake Griffin.

4. Blake Griffin — He is the best offensive big man in the NBA and a solid defender. His skillset development was tremendous to watch this season. Aside from NYK games, I probably watched the Clippers the most, and Griffin's game is wildly different from what it was before. Great player. Honestly, Griffin vs. Curry was a really tough choice.

5. Chris Paul — Great season. I honestly question whether he's better than Blake Griffin even if they played the same amount of games, but the games played gives Blake the edge. Chris Paul vs. Russell Westbrook was a really tough choice, too.

HM: Russell Westbrook, Dwight Howard, LaMarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony

[ceiling raiser]

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant

I thought this was a tossup during the regular season, and for stretches I was considering Durant. A few things happened in the playoffs, though:

• LeBron upped his intensity defensively, and was a strong positive on that end for three rounds, and wasn't too bad for 3 out of 5 games in the Finals. Kawhi Leonard shot very well against him in games 3 and 4 spotting up (LeBron guarded Parker primarily in G5, and continued to do a great job on him), so LeBron/Miami could have done a better job recovering.
• Durant shot extremely well this season. He wasn't too bad in the post during the year either. For some reason though, he had legitimate problems against smaller defenders in the playoffs. Primarily Tony Allen, though Chris Paul gave him fits at time as well. I said it in the KD thread as well, he needs to do 1 of two things this summer: consult with Grover or someone similar about adding mass (and investigating what it'll do to his shot), or watch a ton of tape of Sikma (or someone else with a similar frame to KD), to get an idea of how to play in the post.
• LeBron looked very comfortable shooting his jumper in the playoffs, and went to his post-up game a bunch throughout the season. Nice to see him succeed this year spending as much time off the ball as he did.

3. LaMarcus Aldridge
4. Dwight Howard

Both guys showed me a ton this season. LMA looked pretty polished on defense, and was tremendous on long jumpers to space the floor, and down low in the post. Dwight looked much better than least year physically, and showed some great things in the playoffs. His movement looked much more fluid (credit to Hakeem/McHale, presumably), and it looked like he was working with some legitimate counter moves. Excited to see both guys next season.

5. Stephen Curry

Monster shooting the ball, he's covered tightly so far out it's incredible. I really think he has the potential to change the way the game is played. Excited to see him next year with Kerr, who I presume will be more of an X's-and-O's coach.

HM (in no particular order): Dirk Nowitzki, Paul George, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Kevin Love

[RSCD3_]

I wrote down my selections and explanations on the 32nd post

[HeartBreakKid]

1) Lebron James - Had him as #2 during the RS for MVP, his lack of defense pegged him down during the RS, but his scoring has really matured.

Playoffs he was just phenomenal. First he stepped up his defense big time. His post game was just unreal, has an argument for the best post game from a perimeter player I think. He really could get into the paint when ever he wanted, and his passing was just so controlled, then his 3 point shot was wet as hell. James proved again that he was the best player in the world with his great post season performance. Durant was the rightful MVP, but come playoff time everyone is picking James, how can he not be #1?

2) Kevin Durant - Great MVP season, certainly better than James. I expected Durant's scoring to go up due to lack of Westbrook for a lot of the RS, but it was nice to see his playmaking and defense went up as well. Too bad that those things didn't quite get up to a level where he could comfortably use those in the playoffs, as his playmaking and defense was pretty putrid.

With that being said, Durant was only "bad" in the playoffs in the sense that his production dropped off from the RS. He was still the best scorer in the post season, easily the second best player in the world, the best player during the RS. An easy #2.


3) Chris Paul - I don't peg too much for games missed, because RS games just decide seeding for the most part, especially in the East where you can still make the playoffs even if your star player is injured a lot. If a player can't back it up in the post season, then I rate their injury prone RS against them. In the case of Chris Paul and the Clippers, I don't think it mattered who they played in the West, they were going to have a hard fight, and Paul was going to probably deliver no matter what. I rank him above Griffin because he seemed to be the better player when both of them were healthy.

Chris wasn't that great in the GSW series, I guess his hamstring was bothering him, he was good in Game 1, 6 and 7 - Griffin carried the other games, though it is worth noting that Griffin had a big match up advantage as GSW was very small.

I thought Paul played phenomenal in the Thunder series, best player on the court. Yes, I thought he was better than Westbrook, albeit they were pretty close to even. Like wise, I thought Griffin and Durant were pretty close in impact too. The biggest difference was surprisingly the Thunder's crappy depth out playing the Clippers alleged great depth, Jamal Crawford really cost them that series.

4) Blake Griffin - I wasn't really sold on Griffin for a lot of the RS, I had missed most of his run when he went solo, but he certainly solidified him spot as one of the best players in the playoffs. He was always a gifted passer, but we really got a taste to how much of a weapon that could be from him. Griffin went from being a player who was shy with contact to one who might want to bang a bit too much, his post game is going to be a huge problem for a lot of players. Griffin's ability to knock down jumpers makes his offensive game as complete as can be.






#5 and #6 is between Stephen Curry and Dwight Howard. I need time to decide, so I'll edit them in later.

[Reservoirdawgs]

Reserving my spot...I am confident with #3-5 but #1 and #2 are still difficult...I'm trying to decide which metrics I want to ultimately give more weight to...