Sources say LeBron to seek Max Deal

[LJ4pointplay]

From Section 2 of the CBA

No Unauthorized Agreements.
(a)

At no time shall there be any agreements or transactions of any kind (whether disclosed or undisclosed to the NBA), express or implied,oral or written, or promises, undertakings, representations, commitments,inducements, assurances of intent, or understandings of any kind (whetherdisclosed or undisclosed to the NBA), between a player (or any person orentity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of, suchplayer) and any Team (or Team Affiliate):
(i)

concerning any future Renegotiation, Extension, or otheramendment of an existing Player Contract, or entry into anew Player Contract;

c)
A violation of Section 2(a) or 2(b) above may be proven by director circumstantial evidence, including, but not limited to, evidence that aPlayer Contract or any term or provision thereof cannot rationally beexplained in the absence of conduct violative of Section 2(a) or 2(b)

[AmazingJason]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m

As free agency starts, James/Bosh/Wade plan to give Pat Riley a window to enact his plan on upgrading supporting cast, sources tell Yahoo.


like i said

its obvious they all collude

too bad nothing can be proved

Unless they funnel money to these guys off the books, there's nothing wrong with them waiting for Riley to try to please everybody. I don't really see an issue.

Didn't we do the same with Allan Houston?

Oh wait, we gave him the contract and the front office job

[LJ4pointplay]

They all opted out because Riley is a cheater and promised them back channel money.
Especially Wade. There was no reason at all for him.

In this case, it's like agreeing to give the player the right to have at least "no worse than" the last contract he signed, in order to induce the player to opt out. It's not cap circumvention -- it's just giving the player an incentive to opt out based on a kind of rough negotiation of the parameters of the next deal. I don't think the league would have an issue with it. I may be overlooking something here that makes it a problem but I don't see it right now -- I haven't thought it through entirely though.

Check my post above KG. It violates the CBA.

[LJ4pointplay]

its obvious they all collude

too bad nothing can be proved

Unless they funnel money to these guys off the books, there's nothing wrong with them waiting for Riley to try to please everybody. I don't really see an issue.

Didn't we do the same with Allan Houston?

Oh wait, we gave him the contract and the front office job

LOL exactly. The behavior is not allowed under the CBA, but the NBA and its franchises generally look the other way. Not a big deal when it happens, but it could be- if the right person wanted it to be.

[Futureisnow]

lebron taking the max might affect what melo accepts. I always felt if lebron took yet another paycut that melo would be more inclined to as well this season.

Lebron won his rings in the years he took a discount deal. Duncan, Parker and Manu just won and they're all on very team-friendly deals. The guys that take less and leave their team cap space to operate are the guys that have a chance to win. Melo said it's about winning, I doubt he's so short sighted that he simply wants to go dollar for dollar with Lebron.

And I don't think Lebron is seeking a max deal. I think he likes the whole never having a max deal thing associated with him.

[The Boss Speaks]

I Think Melon is FEELING Phil on his master plan!! Kevin Love will be a Knickerbocker next year...don't sleep on this. I will be boasting about my prediction

Why are we still talking about MIAMI?? Is hot as hell down there.... all that toto going to waist because you're busy sweating instead of hitting it... Gimme my NY hoes meh. I love my 4 seasons!!!!

[suicidedeuce]

I'm saying that the only way he got them to technically agree to be free agents is by verbally telling the agent for both players (same guy) that he would take care of them somehow. What that assurance is, we don't know. But I suspect it has to meet a high bar because I doubt that his agent would agree to totally expose his clients like this.

Both had bad endings to their playoffs. If Riley said "Just please opt out but I can't promise you what will happen," it would not have happened.

You are right that technically Riley could renounce both of them tomorrow. 12:00 AM tonight. But he has made a promise he won't do that, and he has promised them that they can get their money back (most or all) if nothing else materializes.

So Pat Riley has ALREADY committed multiple CBA violations?

How soon until the NBA investigation begins?

What do you think motivated Wade to opt out?

same question for Bosh, and LeBron?

Do you think that the three of them are aware of each other's intentions re: salary that will be acceptable to them?

Do you believe LeBron will only accept the max ( or something relatively close)?

Don't have a clue what the plan is.

Their cap holds plus the minimum salary cap holds are greater than the cap, so even if you renounced EVERYONE but them, it's not like you can bring in even 1 outside free agent without renouncing one of their deals.

The only reason to opt out is to either leave or take a new salary for less.

It would seem to make sense they're doing it in unison.

I guess they want to see if Riley can get a significant free agent and if he can secure one, they'll restructure to make it work, but even that's fraught with cao problems - they're going to have to renounce the cap holds/Bird Rights of EVERYONE to do that - Chalmers, Battier, Haslem, Anderson, Allen.

If the Big 3 intend to stay and want new pieces brought in, they're essentially hanging the entire rest of the roster out to dry.

There is some sense to just forcing the Heat to use the full MLE to get something new in there.

Another is maybe James and Bosh plan to leave and are setting up Miami for sign and trade options.

Another is they plan to sign for significant discounts.

Headscratcher.

[suicidedeuce]

I Think Melon is FEELING Phil on his master plan!! Kevin Love will be a Knickerbocker next year...don't sleep on this. I will be boasting about my prediction

How is Love going down?

[K_ick_God]

From Section 2 of the CBA

No Unauthorized Agreements.
(a)

At no time shall there be any agreements or transactions of any kind (whether disclosed or undisclosed to the NBA), express or implied,oral or written, or promises, undertakings, representations, commitments,inducements, assurances of intent, or understandings of any kind (whether disclosed or undisclosed to the NBA), between a player (or any person or entity controlled by, related to, or acting with authority on behalf of, such player) and any Team (or Team Affiliate):
(i)

concerning any future Renegotiation, Extension, or other amendment of an existing Player Contract, or entry into a new Player Contract;

c)
A violation of Section 2(a) or 2(b) above may be proven by director circumstantial evidence, including, but not limited to, evidence that aPlayer Contract or any term or provision thereof cannot rationally beexplained in the absence of conduct violative of Section 2(a) or 2(b)

Wow that is pretty damning potentially. Especially the part about "cannot rationally be explained." Nothing rational about tossing out $84M so you can please LeBron or Riley.

But I do see at least one potential area where the league could say they're looking the other way if they want to: Inducing someone to opt out with some assurance that they'll do no worse than XYZ is not necessarily "concerning any future Renegotiation, Extension, or other amendment of an existing Player Contract, or entry into a new Player Contract."

Is it any of those? It's really an assurance just to get someone to opt out. I'm not sure if it fits exactly but it certainly could if the league wants it to. It is a future contract.

Strains reasons that Bosh and Wade's agent opted out without SOME KIND of safety net unless their agent is incompetent. They're not risking $84M because Riley or Bron just asked them to and they thought there was a possibility that, for instance, he would waive them both.

[LJ4pointplay]

So Pat Riley has ALREADY committed multiple CBA violations?

How soon until the NBA investigation begins?

What do you think motivated Wade to opt out?

same question for Bosh, and LeBron?

Do you think that the three of them are aware of each other's intentions re: salary that will be acceptable to them?

Do you believe LeBron will only accept the max ( or something relatively close)?

Don't have a clue what the plan is.

Their cap holds plus the minimum salary cap holds are greater than the cap, so even if you renounced EVERYONE but them, it's not like you can bring in even 1 outside free agent without renouncing one of their deals.

The only reason to opt out is to either leave or take a new salary for less.

It would seem to make sense they're doing it in unison.

I guess they want to see if Riley can get a significant free agent and if he can secure one, they'll restructure to make it work, but even that's fraught with cao problems - they're going to have to renounce the cap holds/Bird Rights of EVERYONE to do that - Chalmers, Battier, Haslem, Anderson, Allen.

If the Big 3 intend to stay and want new pieces brought in, they're essentially hanging the entire rest of the roster out to dry.

There is some sense to just forcing the Heat to use the full MLE to get something new in there.

Another is maybe James and Bosh plan to leave and are setting up Miami for sign and trade options.

Another is they plan to sign for significant discounts.

Headscratcher.

So you think Wade risked potentially 20+ million dollars without assurances by Riley that he would be brought back or signed elsewhere to a big deal?

I think it is POSSIBLE, IF LeBron told Wade that he has his word that he won't re-sign without Wade being taken care of. Even then, that is a lot of money to risk that Riley would play ball (and that LeBron would keep his word).

[LJ4pointplay]

Wow that is pretty damning potentially. Especially the part about "cannot rationally be explained." Nothing rational about tossing out $84M so you can please LeBron or Riley.

But I do see at least one potential area where the league could say they're looking the other way if they want to: Inducing someone to opt out with some assurance that they'll do no worse than XYZ is not necessarily "concerning any future Renegotiation, Extension, or other amendment of an existing Player Contract, or entry into a new Player Contract."

Is it any of those? It's really an assurance just to get someone to opt out. I'm not sure if it fits exactly but it certainly could if the league wants it to. It is a future contract.

Strains reasons that Bosh and Wade's agent opted out without SOME KIND of safety net unless their agent is incompetent. They're not risking $84M because Riley or Bron just asked them to and they thought there was a possibility that, for instance, he would waive them both.

KG,

It's an assurance of a new player contract.

[The Boss Speaks]

I Think Melon is FEELING Phil on his master plan!! Kevin Love will be a Knickerbocker next year...don't sleep on this. I will be boasting about my prediction

How is Love going down?

I'm not going there... but he did say that he likes what Phelipe is doin'. He won't get dealt to the warriors and the other competitor (LA) is going to squander their cap room this year. He can hold ass til next year (or Phil miraculously deals for him this year) but I think he wants NYC on his resume!!!

[K_ick_God]

nvm -- it is pretty clearly addressed by the rules.

It's a promise of a future contract that is no less than XYZ.

Now maybe Riley's promise was so subtle as to be very hard to prove, but the language seems clear. If they got an assurance to opt out, it's a violation -- and even if the assurance was just a gesture or an implied indication of some kind that let them know they'd be taken care of.

Note that even an oral and implied (not express) assurance violates the rule clearly.

Just hard to prove quickly, and it doesn't behoove the NBA to do it fast or ever. They'd probably rather make things seem squeaky clean. This definitely is not.

Wade and Bosh are not abandoning $84M after a terrible playoffs where they looked old. Doesn't pass the laugh test.

Wow.

[suicidedeuce]

So you think Wade risked potentially 20+ million dollars without assurances by Riley that he would be brought back or signed elsewhere to a big deal?

I think it is POSSIBLE, IF LeBron told Wade that he has his word that he won't re-sign without Wade being taken care of. Even then, that is a lot of money to risk that Riley would play ball (and that LeBron would keep his word).

Yes, i think James holds ALL the power here.

I also don't think Miami would hang Wade out to dry.

But whatever the plan afoot is, i don't think they'll be any consequences.

[LJ4pointplay]

So you think Wade risked potentially 20+ million dollars without assurances by Riley that he would be brought back or signed elsewhere to a big deal?

I think it is POSSIBLE, IF LeBron told Wade that he has his word that he won't re-sign without Wade being taken care of. Even then, that is a lot of money to risk that Riley would play ball (and that LeBron would keep his word).

Yes, i think James holds ALL the power here.

I also don't think Miami would hang Wade out to dry.

But whatever the plan afoot is, i don't think they'll be any consequences.

Agreed on all of this. Only thing that I am very unsure of is whether Wade would risk it. That is a lot to risk. I don't think we would want to be 80% sure that Riley would play ball. Y'know.

[K_ick_God]

A violation of Section 2(a) or 2(b) above may be proven by director circumstantial evidence, including, but not limited to, evidence that a Player Contract or any term or provision thereof cannot rationally be explained in the absence of conduct violative of Section 2(a) or 2(b)

It definitely cannot be rationally explained that Wade and Bosh opted out without Riley providing their agent an assurance of some kind or another, even if we disagree what that assurance was. We all saw the Finals lol.

It appears that no assurance is permissible.

[LJ4pointplay]

A violation of Section 2(a) or 2(b) above may be proven by director circumstantial evidence, including, but not limited to, evidence that a Player Contract or any term or provision thereof cannot rationally be explained in the absence of conduct violative of Section 2(a) or 2(b)

It definitely cannot be rationally explained that Wade and Bosh opted out without Riley providing their agent an assurance of some kind or another, even if we disagree what that assurance was. We all saw the Finals lol.

It appears that no assurance is permissible.

One thing to keep in mind though is the a rational standard is considered an extremely low one. In my belief, it could rationally be explained by the incentive to win and the faith that he would be taken care of by the Heat long term (absence any assurances).

With that said, the fact that the NBA has a rational basis test in the provision speaks to the likelihood that something above rational but below a higher standard would color the amount of circumstantial evidence required to prove a case.

[K_ick_God]

A violation of Section 2(a) or 2(b) above may be proven by director circumstantial evidence, including, but not limited to, evidence that a Player Contract or any term or provision thereof cannot rationally be explained in the absence of conduct violative of Section 2(a) or 2(b)

It definitely cannot be rationally explained that Wade and Bosh opted out without Riley providing their agent an assurance of some kind or another, even if we disagree what that assurance was. We all saw the Finals lol.

It appears that no assurance is permissible.

One thing to keep in mind though is the a rational standard is considered an extremely low one. In my belief, it could rationally be explained by the incentive to win and the faith that he would be taken care of by the Heat long term (absence any assurances).

With that said, the fact that the NBA has a rational basis test in the provision speaks to the likelihood that something above rational but below a higher standard would color the amount of circumstantial evidence required to prove a case.

Hard to prove and you give an explanation they'd undoubtedly use. Even if they told Wade and Bosh, "This will allow us to keep LeBron," isn't that a kind of inducement as well?

Of course it went beyond that. This was certainly done with some assurances, inducement or implication that they'd not really risk losing all that cash.

Pretty big news.

[Dr. Detfink]

D-Wade: $12M
C. Bosh: $14M
L. James: $18M

With opt out clause.

*drops mic*

[kane2021]

I don't even think it was that bad a supporting cast. Those guys knew what they were getting into and the limits they placed on the franchise. It didn't stop them from guaranteeing 7 titles. James wants things his way and that's the easy way. Those guys could have given more effort. James is is the leader and he set the tone when he quit because he was uncomfortable with the temperature. Give me a break. People was calling them the greatest team ever built just a few years ago. Now it's not good enough. Just face it. You a spoiled gutless genetic marvel. Can't inject heart with a syringe.

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