Melo #13: Believe in Joakim Noah & Crew

[WindyCityBorn]

I really hope there's a way of getting Melo without giving up Mirotic, Taj, McDermott,Butler. I've seen Mirotic play a lot over the past 2 years and he is a straight up baller. Bulls fans haven't seen much of him and just look at his stats, and just think he's just some decent European player. If the bulls trade him, fans are going regret it becuase he is extremely talented.

You and I seem to be the only ones that really don't want to trade Mirotic. Every one else is tossing him into trades like an afterthought. I look at Mirotic as the guy to help the Bulls contend for the next 10 years long after Carmelo has passed his prime. Noah and Taj are not young and I doubt the pulls will in position to get another frontcourt prospect like that unless we are in the lottery again. I still fail to see how New York has the leverage to demand a prospect like that just to cooperate in a S&T for a player that rejected them. A couple of future picks should be all they get.

I definitely want to keep Mirotic as well. I am very optimistic on him. That being said I understand the reasoning for Taj i.e. he is clearly going to make us better in year one than Mirotic.

Taj is the better fit defensively

Mirotic the better fit offensively

So thats the conundrum. Thing is I think the FO has committed to Thibs that no matter what this season he gets his wet dream frontcourt of Taj/Noah. With those 2 protecting the paint, grabbing boards, and Thibs coaching the D we might have the # 1 rated D this season.


Long term though I do think Mirotic has a higher ceiling than Taj.

I understand if it has to be done then you do it, but relying on two players to carry the team offensively is risky. Oklahoma City has a better duo and their lack of scoring depth is still a major problem.

[DJhitek]

I have a lot of respect for your fan base, you guys are entertaining to say the least

You have been very respectful and insightful while posting here, among some of the other Knicks posters that have come here.

As an aside, yesterdays Melo threads were awesome. Great entertainment for sure.

[jc23]

I have a lot of respect for your fan base, you guys are entertaining to say the least

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWINtUCshxY[/youtube]

[WinCity]

You and I seem to be the only ones that really don't want to trade Mirotic. Every one else is tossing him into trades like an afterthought. I look at Mirotic as the guy to help the Bulls contend for the next 10 years long after Carmelo has passed his prime. Noah and Taj are not young and I doubt the pulls will in position to get another frontcourt prospect like that unless we are in the lottery again. I still fail to see how New York has the leverage to demand a prospect like that just to cooperate in a S&T for a player that rejected them. A couple of future picks should be all they get.

I definitely want to keep Mirotic as well. I am very optimistic on him. That being said I understand the reasoning for Taj i.e. he is clearly going to make us better in year one than Mirotic.

Taj is the better fit defensively

Mirotic the better fit offensively

So thats the conundrum. Thing is I think the FO has committed to Thibs that no matter what this season he gets his wet dream frontcourt of Taj/Noah. With those 2 protecting the paint, grabbing boards, and Thibs coaching the D we might have the # 1 rated D this season.


Long term though I do think Mirotic has a higher ceiling than Taj.

I understand if it has to be done then you do it, but relying on two players to carry the team offensively is risky. Oklahoma City has a better duo and their lack of scoring depth is still a major problem.

I understand, Its a fair point. Keep in mind though they dont have Thibs coaching them, and whilst they have Ibaka and Perk we have Noah and Gibson, give me Noah and Gibson all day everyday. My point is we may just be able to make up for our offense with our defense in a way OKC cant. Also, keep in mind with Melo and a healthy Rose we are talking at least a top 10 offense, something we never really had under Thibs. So overall I think we are stronger than OKC, even though they have the best player out of the 2 teams i.e. Durant.

Also, if we are somehow able to bring over Mirotic we could really have a strong bench scoring presence. The Taj/Mirotic/Noah combo could be amazing. Taj can play the 4 or 5 and that rotation could be something like the Lakers Odom/Gasol/Bynum rotation with all 3 guys playing equal minutes.

[MoneyMitch]

I have a lot of respect for your fan base, you guys are entertaining to say the least

You have been very respectful and insightful while posting here, among some of the other Knicks posters that have come here.

As an aside, yesterdays Melo threads were awesome. Great entertainment for sure.

I know this is a huge time for you guys so I tread lightly

Basically I just browse and post if there's anything guys should kno or that need clarifying

[AKfanatic]

OMG I was just reading the Knciks board Melo thread. I cant believe what those Bulls posters got banned for. The most innocuous comments are labeled trolling.

Ya and they had a nyk moderator here doing worse.

All it takes is a few "home team" posters to continually call visiting posters trolls and tell them to leave on that board and one other rather obvious board here and their mods will suspend. Those same posters will report non troll-ish posts and *poof* suspension. It's amusing that the same guys are breaking realgms terms of use by attacking posters and subverting the language filter repeatedly.

But...that's how it goes when visiting Mecca.


As for Melo. Unsurprisingly, the FO made a solid pitch and did all that they can. I'm sure if we don't land Melo, the lovefest will end and people will call for GarPax to be fired for their failing to do what needed to be done. Hopefully it doesn't come to that and Melo joins Chi-town soon

[weneeda2guard]

Mirotic is a diva

Mirotic has a very good chance of quickly getting in thibs doghouse

Very good chance he won't be a good rebounder or defender

If melo chooses Chicago we have no time for a youth movement. We need vets so we can compete year 1 of melo arrival. We don't have time for mirotic to develop into something.

[GMgoran]

Chicago has been building up to this point for the last 10 years. Getting assets, making trades to get to a point where they are one player away from title contention. So if we lose Mirotic its all part of the process. Just look at him like we are losing the 23rd draft pick in the 2011 draft.

At some point in time you got to ask yourself what is the main goal. And the goal is to win a championship. Even if we only have a 3-4 year window with melo you still do it. Hopefully you play it savvier then miami and keep developing young talent.

I mean if you told me we would win one title and then for some reason we would sorta suck for 3 years id still do it.

It would be much easier to win that much desired title if we have Mirotic on the team ... Being on the court with Rose, Butler, Melo and Noah, he would be an absolutely devastating 3rd scoring option ...

Mirotic would more than likely be the Bulls 6th man if he is on the roster this Fall. I'm not seeing any scoring off the bench(maybe McDermott) with this team and the starting lineup already has 3 non-scorers in Noah, Taj and Jimmy. Adding Melo does not solve all of our offensive problems and that is assuming Rose is back to playing at an elite level.

Yes, it is most likely that Mirotic would the the Bulls 6th man if we have both Melo and him on the team, with Rose, Butler, Melo, Taj and Noah being the starting line up ... However, having both Mirotic and McDermott on the team would give us the option for the instant offence from the bench, something that we didn't regularly have in recent years ... When I remember those winning years in the 90's, it seems that many people have forgot the roles of B.J. Armstrong, Stacey King, Toni Kukoc or Steve Kerr on those title winning teams ...

[WinCity]

Mirotic is a diva

Mirotic has a very good chance of quickly getting in thibs doghouse

Very good chance he won't be a good rebounder or defender

If melo chooses Chicago we have no time for a youth movement. We need vets so we can compete year 1 of melo arrival. We don't have time for mirotic to develop into something.

Dont be ridiculous. Taj is 28, Noah is near 30 and Melo is 30. Thats an aging frontcourt. If you want to compete long term you bring in fresh, young legs and meld them in alongside your older guys. Thats how its done.

[jmajew]

I'm proud of the entire Bulls organization. They want all out in this pitch. If he chooses not to come he chooses not to come. There are other avenues to improve the team that can still make us title contenders.

Bravo Chicago, Bravo.

[Mech Engineer]

I agree and it is NOT just sports media. It is almost all of the media. They are very sure about what they "know" but a lot of what they "know" isn't even true. Long ago I was considered an expert in a very very limited subject (and was invited to testify to Congress, participated in a DOD roundtable, talked with the CIA, DIA, etc.) and KNEW a subject in and out and the media was always reporting it wrong. I called the AP and other outlets and talked directly to the reporters. They refused to change their story and were very hard headed about letting anything other than superficial information on the topic enter their brain. They aren't all they are cracked up to be.

News reporting is an entirely different animal though, with different outlets having specific agendas. And news these days are constructed and programmed with mostly ratings, views and sales in mind, more so than providing the audience with actual and factual news.

But lets get back to the topic at hand. Stupid NBA writers.

The reality is the cap calculations are not that difficult(putting together some numbers). But, trying to figure out creative ways(like the Deeks article with the Boozer amnesty) with the plan is very complicated, complex and awesome.

We cannot blame the writers to not come up with that kind of pieces. Even Paxson mentioned that the cap calculations is a difficult concept for him. You can do the first or second iteration of moving people and then you start liking one of the pieces(say Taj) and do not want to move him and run into a calculation wall.

That plus, there are so many minor details which make a million or two difference and that is the difference for Melo to be closer to 18/19 million. That is the goal of the Bulls rather than freeing up max cap-space. In a way, if you are having max cap-space, the team is probably not that good.

[fleet]

You guys are pretty stoked about landing Melo huh? I just hope that Chicago is able to get him. Would be pretty embarrassing if you did not.

Yea how embarrassing it would be for Melo to sign with anyone else. Especially the ball dominant players on the Rockets.

Harden had no problem with Kevin Durant. Not to mention Westbrook. Wade and Lebron worked together fine. Its up to the players to work it out, and Harden is proven to be able to. This is wishful thinking imo, and a narrative that is just not going to be consequencial in any way.

What will matter to Melo as he evaluates his best alternative to NY, is the city of Houston V Chicago. The money (if its higher than Chicago's offer). And the quality of roster around Harden, Howard and Melo.

[GMgoran]

Mirotic is a diva

Mirotic has a very good chance of quickly getting in thibs doghouse

Very good chance he won't be a good rebounder or defender

If melo chooses Chicago we have no time for a youth movement. We need vets so we can compete year 1 of melo arrival. We don't have time for mirotic to develop into something.

[Droseisthe1]

[weneeda2guard]

Mirotic is a diva

Mirotic has a very good chance of quickly getting in thibs doghouse

Very good chance he won't be a good rebounder or defender

If melo chooses Chicago we have no time for a youth movement. We need vets so we can compete year 1 of melo arrival. We don't have time for mirotic to develop into something.

Dont be ridiculous. Taj is 28, Noah is near 30 and Melo is 30. Thats an aging frontcourt. If you want to compete long term you bring in fresh, young legs and meld them in alongside your older guys. Thats how its done.

Youngsters don't win rings

Vets do. Why are you thinking long term when we trying to recruit a 30 yr old vet? And mirotic is not coming along with Parker ginobli and Duncan like kawhi did. You don't move taj for mirotic if you plan on competing immediately you don't have the years to wait for mirotic to develop. And mirotic strong suit is scoring from the outside not like he coming in dominating the glass blocking shots and protecting the rim. He a youngster that needs to bulk up and in thibs system could be a liability. Taj is ready now, many experts have said mirotic needs a couple of years.

If our main target was Kevin love and we were opening our window for 4-7 years then yea mirotic but melo coming means a 2-4 year window and taj is better in that situation

[fleet]

Broussard: Knicks chances have improved

[fleet]

Broussard: limited to 15 million from Bulls

[WinCity]

Speaking of the Prez, where the F was he during last nights dinner? This is some BS! He could have at least shown his face. He needs to be called out for not recruiting. Its the least he could do! When was the last time he was even at a game? Come on man. This scrub needs to go. I dont even want to hear from him until its reported he at least texted Melo. GTFO Mr Prez!!

[coldfish]

Random comments:
- One variable not discussed much is the cap itself. Its projected to go up and the number is around $63M but that's unknown. It might go up more or less. Even a relatively small move in either direction will drastically change the leverage for either team. If it goes up, not only can Chicago offer more but it costs NY less to take on Boozer AND all of the teams with capspace who could help Chicago have more of it. The reverse is true for all of those issues if it goes down.

- The cap is expected to go way up. This is going to make Melo's salary far more palatable in the long term. Beyond that, he very well might want to opt out after 3 years. The most likely scenario is that Melo coming to Chicago costs him very little money. The issue is the downside risk where if he gets hurt badly enough that he can't get another contract. In that case, him coming to Chicago really could cost him a fortune. I still wonder if Melo can buy insurance to mitigate that risk.

- I still don't think the Bulls have enough minutes at the 3 / 4 for Melo, Gibson, Mirotic and McDermott. Sure, Gibson will play a few minutes at the 5 but its not going to be many. Personally, I like the idea of putting Melo at the 4 for spot minutes next to McDermott. IMHO, if you have Mirotic and Gibson, Melo will spend all of his time at the 3.

- Still very happy with the Bulls and Derrick Rose yesterday. People need to remember July 1, 2014 when they either criticize Rose for not helping or the Bulls for not taking the acquisition of talent seriously. A lot of things were dispelled yesterday.

- This might be me and we will find out later but it doesn't seem that Houston and Dallas are pursuing Melo as aggressively as Chicago.

[fleet]

Broussard: Melo likes Phil's moves, has confidence in Phil