Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 4

[verbal8]

And yeah, Phoenix has had a curious offseason. Not just the PGs - but the lack of other moves. I actually think their plan was to NOT be this good this fast. And now that they are, they aren't ready to spend the money to take the next step. It'll be interesting to see what they do from here on out.

I am surprised they didn't use their cap space for a couple of the moves the Lakers made. Either taking Lin and a pick or putting an amnesty bid on Boozer. Also Ariza seems like he could have been a good fit there.

[tontoz]

I remember a quote from Cuban saying that it is better to do nothing than to spend big money on the wrong guy. Dumars learned that the hard way this past season.

[verbal8]

I remember a quote from Cuban saying that it is better to do nothing than to spend big money on the wrong guy. Dumars learned that the hard way this past season.

Next year Cuban might wish he took his own advice.

Other than obviously the Cavs, I don't see a whole lot of teams that improved themselves via free agency this summer. The Hornets could have gotten a cheap star in Stephenson, but he comes with risk. Also they may have paid more to get less with Marvin Williams replacing McBob. I think one reason most people are pretty high on the Wizards' moves this off-season, is there don't seem to be a lot of realistic deals the Wizards missed out on.

[tontoz]

I remember a quote from Cuban saying that it is better to do nothing than to spend big money on the wrong guy. Dumars learned that the hard way this past season.

Next year Cuban might wish he took his own advice.

Other than obviously the Cavs, I don't see a whole lot of teams that improved themselves via free agency this summer. The Hornets could have gotten a cheap star in Stephenson, but he comes with risk. Also they may have paid more to get less with Marvin Williams replacing McBob. I think one reason most people are pretty high on the Wizards' moves this off-season, is there don't seem to be a lot of realistic deals the Wizards missed out on.

With no cap space there weren't a lot of deals the Wizards could make.

I would agree that there were a lot of dubious moves both other teams in general. From Cuban's perspective he got Dirk to sign a 3 year deal at a huge discount so he had some room to play with. But $15 million/yr for Parsons, even for only 3 years, is pretty bad.

The Bulls could be rough next year. If Rose is 80% of what he was i think they have a good chance to reach the finals.

[pcbothwel]

I remember a quote from Cuban saying that it is better to do nothing than to spend big money on the wrong guy. Dumars learned that the hard way this past season.

Next year Cuban might wish he took his own advice.

Other than obviously the Cavs, I don't see a whole lot of teams that improved themselves via free agency this summer. The Hornets could have gotten a cheap star in Stephenson, but he comes with risk. Also they may have paid more to get less with Marvin Williams replacing McBob. I think one reason most people are pretty high on the Wizards' moves this off-season, is there don't seem to be a lot of realistic deals the Wizards missed out on.

With no cap space there weren't a lot of deals the Wizards could make.

I would agree that there were a lot of dubious moves both other teams in general. From Cuban's perspective he got Dirk to sign a 3 year deal at a huge discount so he had some room to play with. But $15 million/yr for Parsons, even for only 3 years, is pretty bad.

The Bulls could be rough next year. If Rose is 80% of what he was i think they have a good chance to reach the finals.

But Dallas has max capspace next year and with a lineup of:
FA C
Dirk
Parsons
Ellis
Harris

i assume Ellis will opt out and then the Mavs will have 30M in cap space with obvious holes at G and C.
2015 FA C:
Deandre Jordan
Asik
Koufos
Mark Gasol
Robin Lopez

2015 FA G:
Dragic
Afflalo
Wes Mathews
Jimmy Butler


They would then still have about 5-7M to bring in an Amare Stoudemire/Afflalo.

Out of that group they could easily end up next year with a Line up of:
Harris
Ellis/Afflalo
Parsons /Afflalo
Dirk/Stoudemire
Jordan/Stoudemire

[tontoz]

Next year Cuban might wish he took his own advice.

Other than obviously the Cavs, I don't see a whole lot of teams that improved themselves via free agency this summer. The Hornets could have gotten a cheap star in Stephenson, but he comes with risk. Also they may have paid more to get less with Marvin Williams replacing McBob. I think one reason most people are pretty high on the Wizards' moves this off-season, is there don't seem to be a lot of realistic deals the Wizards missed out on.

With no cap space there weren't a lot of deals the Wizards could make.

I would agree that there were a lot of dubious moves both other teams in general. From Cuban's perspective he got Dirk to sign a 3 year deal at a huge discount so he had some room to play with. But $15 million/yr for Parsons, even for only 3 years, is pretty bad.

The Bulls could be rough next year. If Rose is 80% of what he was i think they have a good chance to reach the finals.

But Dallas has max capspace next year and with a lineup of:
FA C
Dirk
Parsons
Ellis
Harris

i assume Ellis will opt out and then the Mavs will have 30M in cap space with obvious holes at G and C.
2015 FA C:
Deandre Jordan
Asik
Koufos
Mark Gasol
Robin Lopez

2015 FA G:
Dragic
Afflalo
Wes Mathews
Jimmy Butler


They would then still have about 5-7M to bring in an Amare Stoudemire/Afflalo.

Out of that group they could easily end up next year with a Line up of:
Harris
Ellis/Afflalo
Parsons /Afflalo
Dirk/Stoudemire
Jordan/Stoudemire

I hadnt even looked at what their situation would be like next season. Cuban does have a history of making good moves though.

[Nivek]

But $15 million/yr for Parsons, even for only 3 years, is pretty bad.

I agree Dallas overpaid for Parsons, but perhaps not as much as it might appear at first glance. Last season, the payroll cost of an NBA win was about $1.65 million. By my reckoning, Chandler's production last season was worth 7.2 wins -- about $11.9 million. My salary formula (which works differently) estimates his value at $11.4 million. Definitely an overpay, but Parsons also isn't 26 yet, so there's still potential for improvement. And, if the cap rises as much as expected, his production-to-salary gap may narrow.

The team that did well in all this was Houston. In Ariza, they got a better version of Chandler for a lot less money.

[LyricalRico]

The Hornets could have gotten a cheap star in Stephenson, but he comes with risk. Also they may have paid more to get less with Marvin Williams replacing McBob.

Interesting point about Marvin vs McBob, especially if you consider that Utah was always expected to match an offer for Hayward. Rather than wasting time with Hayward, they probably would have been better off locking up McBob early at $6M per (slightly above the MLE) and then going hard at Stephenson right away.

[dckingsfan]

But $15 million/yr for Parsons, even for only 3 years, is pretty bad.

I agree Dallas overpaid for Parsons, but perhaps not as much as it might appear at first glance. Last season, the payroll cost of an NBA win was about $1.65 million. By my reckoning, Chandler's production last season was worth 7.2 wins -- about $11.9 million. My salary formula (which works differently) estimates his value at $11.4 million. Definitely an overpay, but Parsons also isn't 26 yet, so there's still potential for improvement. And, if the cap rises as much as expected, his production-to-salary gap may narrow.

The team that did well in all this was Houston. In Ariza, they got a better version of Chandler for a lot less money.

How many wins was Ariza worth last year?

[Nivek]

But $15 million/yr for Parsons, even for only 3 years, is pretty bad.

I agree Dallas overpaid for Parsons, but perhaps not as much as it might appear at first glance. Last season, the payroll cost of an NBA win was about $1.65 million. By my reckoning, Chandler's production last season was worth 7.2 wins -- about $11.9 million. My salary formula (which works differently) estimates his value at $11.4 million. Definitely an overpay, but Parsons also isn't 26 yet, so there's still potential for improvement. And, if the cap rises as much as expected, his production-to-salary gap may narrow.

The team that did well in all this was Houston. In Ariza, they got a better version of Chandler for a lot less money.

How many wins was Ariza worth last year?

I had him at 8.1. The Wins Produced metric said 13+, if I recall correctly.

[dckingsfan]

Aaron Brooks a good signing for Chicago?

[stevemcqueen1]

If I were Flip Saunders, and Chicago offered me Gibson + Butler + McDermott for Kevin Love, I take it.

Rubio + Butler + McDermott + Gibson + Pekovic would be one of the best starting 5s in the West IMO. Memphis-esque.

[nuposse04]

If I were Flip Saunders, and Chicago offered me Gibson + Butler + McDermott for Kevin Love, I take it.

Rubio + Butler + McDermott + Gibson + Pekovic would be one of the best starting 5s in the West IMO. Memphis-esque.

That is a treadmill team for the next 3-5 years. Rubio will be overpaid more then likely, and so will Butler. McDermott is not a given, not impressed with his lateral speed at all. He will be shut down by western conference 3-D players. Gibson and Pek are both role players essentially. It is literally a team of role players who have nothing elite about them. They're all good, but meh, that won't cut it in the west. Its wiggins or bust for MIN, cause no way is Klay thompson worth the max.

[hands11]

I think if Love gets moved, it happens this week.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... -With-Cavs

Thats the shot across the bow to MIN to tell them, **** or get off the pot.

If they don't take the offer, they are in limbo for another 30 days.

Not a deal breaker, but if they want to keep the bidding war going, they need more then on viable bidder.

Step 2

Here we go

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... -From-Jazz

Expect something announced tomorrow.

[hands11]

I remember a quote from Cuban saying that it is better to do nothing than to spend big money on the wrong guy. Dumars learned that the hard way this past season.

Next year Cuban might wish he took his own advice.

Other than obviously the Cavs, I don't see a whole lot of teams that improved themselves via free agency this summer. The Hornets could have gotten a cheap star in Stephenson, but he comes with risk. Also they may have paid more to get less with Marvin Williams replacing McBob. I think one reason most people are pretty high on the Wizards' moves this off-season, is there don't seem to be a lot of realistic deals the Wizards missed out on.

Dallas did exactly what they needed to do. That added a legit piece to go for it while Dirk is still there and they brought back defense in Chandler. That was a great off season for them.

[hands11]

I remember a quote from Cuban saying that it is better to do nothing than to spend big money on the wrong guy. Dumars learned that the hard way this past season.

Next year Cuban might wish he took his own advice.

Other than obviously the Cavs, I don't see a whole lot of teams that improved themselves via free agency this summer. The Hornets could have gotten a cheap star in Stephenson, but he comes with risk. Also they may have paid more to get less with Marvin Williams replacing McBob. I think one reason most people are pretty high on the Wizards' moves this off-season, is there don't seem to be a lot of realistic deals the Wizards missed out on.

With no cap space there weren't a lot of deals the Wizards could make.

I would agree that there were a lot of dubious moves both other teams in general. From Cuban's perspective he got Dirk to sign a 3 year deal at a huge discount so he had some room to play with. But $15 million/yr for Parsons, even for only 3 years, is pretty bad.

The Bulls could be rough next year. If Rose is 80% of what he was i think they have a good chance to reach the finals.

15M might be high. But they did get him.

As for the Wizards and cap space. Let me introduce you to something called the TPE.

That was sweet. The Wizards had one of the best off seasons.

[hands11]

But $15 million/yr for Parsons, even for only 3 years, is pretty bad.

I agree Dallas overpaid for Parsons, but perhaps not as much as it might appear at first glance. Last season, the payroll cost of an NBA win was about $1.65 million. By my reckoning, Chandler's production last season was worth 7.2 wins -- about $11.9 million. My salary formula (which works differently) estimates his value at $11.4 million. Definitely an overpay, but Parsons also isn't 26 yet, so there's still potential for improvement. And, if the cap rises as much as expected, his production-to-salary gap may narrow.

The team that did well in all this was Houston. In Ariza, they got a better version of Chandler for a lot less money.

I don't agree. Parsons is better. But it does depend on what you need. Parson can dribble and create. Now if HOU is going to run everything through Harden so they dont need another ball handler and that works. Great. If not. They are screwed.

I have HOU dropping and DAL replacing them at top 4

[hands11]

If I were Flip Saunders, and Chicago offered me Gibson + Butler + McDermott for Kevin Love, I take it.

Rubio + Butler + McDermott + Gibson + Pekovic would be one of the best starting 5s in the West IMO. Memphis-esque.

That is a treadmill team for the next 3-5 years. Rubio will be overpaid more then likely, and so will Butler. McDermott is not a given, not impressed with his lateral speed at all. He will be shut down by western conference 3-D players. Gibson and Pek are both role players essentially. It is literally a team of role players who have nothing elite about them. They're all good, but meh, that won't cut it in the west. Its wiggins or bust for MIN, cause no way is Klay thompson worth the max.

Rubio is going to be better or is better then a lot give him credit. Next year and the year after, I think people will see that.

He needs to improve sure. But the kid has tools.

[LyricalRico]

If I were Flip Saunders, and Chicago offered me Gibson + Butler + McDermott for Kevin Love, I take it.

Rubio + Butler + McDermott + Gibson + Pekovic would be one of the best starting 5s in the West IMO. Memphis-esque.

That is a treadmill team for the next 3-5 years. Rubio will be overpaid more then likely, and so will Butler. McDermott is not a given, not impressed with his lateral speed at all. He will be shut down by western conference 3-D players. Gibson and Pek are both role players essentially. It is literally a team of role players who have nothing elite about them. They're all good, but meh, that won't cut it in the west. Its wiggins or bust for MIN, cause no way is Klay thompson worth the max.

Agree, all complimentary guys with no alpha-dog. If they're going to move Love, they need to get some type of stud potential in return (either a player or a high draft pick). The Cleveland package is really the only package that gives them that IMO. But apparently they loved McBuckets on draft night so maybe they do see him as a stud.

Also, the offer seems to actually have been this:

The Chicago Bulls have offered a package of Taj Gibson and rookies Doug McDermott and Nikola Mirotic to the Minnesota Timberwolves for All-Star forward Kevin Love, a league source told SheridanHoops.com on Wednesday.

Read more at http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/07/23 ... Ku4AFHc.99

Chicago just brought Mirotic over and also just signed Gasol. Now they tell Mirotic "sike!" and offer him to Minny, while simultaneously telling Gasol he might be a 6th man? Doesn't make sense IMO. Now if they had done this earlier (pre-Gasol) to get Love and then spent the rest of their money on a SG like Stephenson, it would have made more sense.

[dckingsfan]

Would we rather have Love in Chicago or in Cleveland?