Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[Rerisen]

We're forgetting the biggest question in all of this, which is Rose.

Now I get it!



A non-believer in Derrick Rose! He wants to turn the future over to Nikola and Doug first sign that Derrick limps or winces.

You need to burn heretic!

[kingkirk]

What do you feel about the TT/Martin/Waiters deal? I'm on the fence.

So we're aligned, what was the proposed trade?

MIN: Wiggins, Gibson, ?, ?
CLE: Love, ?
CHI: TT, Martin, Waiters

I don't really recall the blanks i've noted, but as a general premise, i am not scared of Love ending up in Cleveland at all, especially if they lose their best post defender in Thompson, who would be an adequate replacement for Gibson.

I don't love that trade, but in terms of balance and depth, it's decent.

I would be indifferent, if it happens or not.

[DanTown8587]

Give me the plan that makes more sense then. Because if it's keeping Taj, what is the long term hope'? The wing rotation just has massive internal growth? Even though only one of them (McDermott) ever projected as a scorer and even that potential is unknown.

People keep **** on Martin but he had a clear positive impact on Westbrook/Durant two years ago and last year when he played with the other Wolves starters, they were +12 per 100.

My plan is to not make reactionary decision in July before the season has started and before many questions of this team have been answered.

We're forgetting the biggest question in all of this, which is Rose. I would like to see that being answered to a degree before making moves like Taj for Martin.

We have no pressure to make a trade right now. The playoffs don't start next week and we have 0 idea with what happens to Martin in this Love trade.

We have 0 idea if he will be include in the deal or not. We have 0 idea if Minnesota will dump him instantly if not included in the Love deal.

Given we have limited knowledge, and given the season hasn't even started yet and we don't know how McDermott, Snell, Mirotic, Rose & Gasol will perform, making reactionary moves now may benefit us, but they could equally back fire.

We are under no pressure or rush to consolidate right now. The only pressure that exists is the perceived one that is generated on this board.

Why is it reactionary? This is a deal that makes sense considering the roster construction. I mean the Bulls are trading a strength (PF depth) for a weakness (2/3 scorer) and they get two super young players for the experience they have in the league (Waiters is 22 with two years experience, Thompson 23 with three years experience).

Again, what are the deals you guys WOULD make for Taj? PF is a super deep position in the league, how much you guys going to get for a non top 20 guy at his position?

[NecessaryEvil]

What do you feel about the TT/Martin/Waiters deal? I'm on the fence.

So we're aligned, what was the proposed trade?

MIN: Wiggins, Gibson, ?, ?
CLE: Love, ?
CHI: TT, Martin, Waiters

I don't really recall the blanks i've noted, but as a general premise, i am not scared of Love ending up in Cleveland at all, especially if they lose their best post defender in Thompson, who would be an adequate replacement for Gibson.

I don't love that trade, but in terms of balance and depth, it's decent.

I would be indifferent, if it happens or not.

I assume Dunleavy & Bennett land in Minny also.

[Polynice4Pippen]

KC made my point but what exactly has Nikola proven in the NBA? Revisionist from my end (maybe) but 100% accurate within the Bulls FO, they nailed it so they knew exactly what they were doing. Horace backing up Charles and giving you 8 and 5 and playing decent D proves my point. Nikola aint no Horace and you dont have a MJ +Scottie to buffer a trade for a guy like KMart.

Again your comparisons arent even close with all due respect. Taj for KMart for THIS team is an awful trade for us.

So why does Mirotic have a nearly $20 million contract, a guarantee not to be traded and won't be traded even for top 10 picks?

Also, we're not asking Nikola to be Horace. We're asking him to be a back up PF.

Cool Im with you, lets see him do it before we unload Taj for less value. If Nikola is worth anything close to that 20 mil contract then we can discuss moving Taj especially for a lower caliber player, ie your Oak for Cartwright deal.

I get your point. But you have to be able to project as well. Again, we didn't wait to see if Horace could handle starting PF before shipping Oakley off. We just projected and trusted our scouting. Why can't we do the same for Mirotic, especially as just a back up?

[Rerisen]

What do you feel about the TT/Martin/Waiters deal? I'm on the fence.

So we're aligned, what was the proposed trade?

MIN: Wiggins, Gibson, ?, ?
CLE: Love, ?
CHI: TT, Martin, Waiters

I don't really recall the blanks i've noted, but as a general premise, i am not scared of Love ending up in Cleveland at all, especially if they lose their best post defender in Thompson, who would be an adequate replacement for Gibson.

I don't love that trade, but in terms of balance and depth, it's decent.

I would be indifferent, if it happens or not.

I'm not happy with this deal in a vacuum. If we had thought better about this offseason I'd think its a loser. But I think the FO has boxed themselves into a corner and might have to do something like this to get out of it.

[kingkirk]

We're forgetting the biggest question in all of this, which is Rose.

Now I get it!



A non-believer in Derrick Rose! He wants to turn the future over to Nikola and Doug first sign that Derrick limps or winces.

You need to burn heretic!

My contingency plan is Mirotic & McDermott, i've conceded that.

I put no trust in Rose and his body at this point, and it's one of the biggest red flags i have in trading for Love, especially if he isn't resigned as soon as he gets here.

I don't want Rose to blow out his knee before Love resigns whilst we've lost our 2 key young players, whilst probably losing Love soon after.

At least we'd have some sort of building blocks in place should Rose's knee give up again.

I am worried about this, more so than anything else. SG be damned, Derrick still scares me.

[kingkirk]

The guy's making over $5 million a year. He's a 23-year-old professional and Euro league stud. He's ready to be a back up NBA PF.

None of the above means he will be ready to be a valued contributor from Nov.

[Rerisen]

My contingency plan is Mirotic & McDermott, i've conceded that.

I put no trust in Rose and his body at this point, and it's one of the biggest red flags i have in trading for Love, especially if he isn't resigned as soon as he gets here.

I don't want Rose to blow out his knee before Love resigns whilst we've lost our 2 key young players, whilst probably losing Love soon after.

At least we'd have some sort of building blocks in place should Rose's knee give up again.

I am worried about this, more so than anything else. SG be damned, Derrick still scares me.

Eh Love is only 25, he could carry the franchise probably better than either of those guys even if Rose is broke. To me you have to go for it with a superstar like that, and just play the odds with Rose. If he's fine, you have a great shot to win a title or titles in the next 3-4 years.

[dumbell78]

So why does Mirotic have a nearly $20 million contract, a guarantee not to be traded and won't be traded even for top 10 picks?

Also, we're not asking Nikola to be Horace. We're asking him to be a back up PF.

Cool Im with you, lets see him do it before we unload Taj for less value. If Nikola is worth anything close to that 20 mil contract then we can discuss moving Taj especially for a lower caliber player, ie your Oak for Cartwright deal.

I get your point. But you have to be able to project as well. Again, we didn't wait to see if Horace could handle starting PF before shipping Oakley off. We just projected and had trusted our scouting. Why can't we do the same for Mirotic, especially as just a back up?

Because Horace actually played for a year and we could see what we had, I honestly have no idea with Nikola. Guy could be Ryan Anderson or could be out of the league in 2 years. I need to see him play in the league first. I would trade Taj+ parts right now if the 2 guard was a legit 2nd option, but Kmart isnt even that right now. Seems like a move of desperation.

[DanTown8587]

The guy's making over $5 million a year. He's a 23-year-old professional and Euro league stud. He's ready to be a back up NBA PF.

None of the above means he will be ready to be a valued contributor from Nov.

So you must not trust McDermott either then right? So the Bulls best plan is to get Martin AND Thompson for Gibson so that the Bulls have protection for both Mirotic and McDermott.

[kingkirk]

Again, what are the deals you guys WOULD make for Taj? PF is a super deep position in the league, how much you guys going to get for a non top 20 guy at his position?

I think Gibson impacts a game more than Martin, and he is the better two way player in my opinion.

I would trade Gibson in a lateral move. I don't see Martin for Gibson as a lateral move, as i clearly don't rate Martin as highly as Taj and what he provides.

I would happily package Taj with a combination of Butler, Snell & Dunleavy for a wing, so long as what is coming back to us makes sense, and at worst, is of equal value.

Kevin Martin is not equal value given his contract, his age, and the fact that Minnesota wants to dump his ass in the Love deal because they don't want him on the books.

Dunleavy, Snell & Cavs Pick is fair value for someone that the Wolves do not want.

[Polynice4Pippen]

The guy's making over $5 million a year. He's a 23-year-old professional and Euro league stud. He's ready to be a back up NBA PF.

None of the above means he will be ready to be a valued contributor from Nov.

Then Gar/Pax really dun messed up.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Cool Im with you, lets see him do it before we unload Taj for less value. If Nikola is worth anything close to that 20 mil contract then we can discuss moving Taj especially for a lower caliber player, ie your Oak for Cartwright deal.

I get your point. But you have to be able to project as well. Again, we didn't wait to see if Horace could handle starting PF before shipping Oakley off. We just projected and had trusted our scouting. Why can't we do the same for Mirotic, especially as just a back up?

Because Horace actually played for a year and we could see what we had, I honestly have no idea with Nikola. Guy could be Ryan Anderson or could be out of the league in 2 years. I need to see him play in the league first. I would trade Taj+ parts right now if the 2 guard was a legit 2nd option, but Kmart isnt even that right now. Seems like a move of desperation.

Gar/Pax clearly have an idea though. Otherwise you ship him off for one of those top 10 picks or don't give him almost $20 million.

[kingkirk]

Eh Love is only 25, he could carry the franchise probably better than either of those guys even if Rose is broke. To me you have to go for it with a superstar like that, and just play the odds with Rose. If he's fine, you have a great shot to win a title or titles in the next 3-4 years.

I agree, Love would be great, but if he is traded without an extension right now, and Rose were to get injured, i wouldn't have much faith in him sticking around.

If he was traded b]with an extension right now[/b], that's a different scenario.

Has he said he would agree to an extension asap? I've only heard that he would resign, but the timeline of that has not been stipulated, be it now or next off season.

If it were next off season, i'd be worried.

[Shill]

Rumor Press @NBARumorPress · 11h
Chicago wants Love, but they wouldn't mind getting a starting wing either. That's where Martin and a potential 3 team deal comes into play.

Rumor Press @NBARumorPress · 11h
Minnesota asked about McDermott, but they're less willing to give him up over Taj or Mirotic.

Rumor Press @NBARumorPress · 11h
If any Bulls deal happens with Minnesota and/or Cleveland, McDermott is unlikely to be involved.

[MalikJoakim24]

We're forgetting the biggest question in all of this, which is Rose.

Now I get it!



A non-believer in Derrick Rose! He wants to turn the future over to Nikola and Doug first sign that Derrick limps or winces.

You need to burn heretic!

shun the non-believer!

i agree with you re on the hypothetical that if rose doesnt return to 100%, that love can carry the franchise especially with the pieces that the bulls have.

[kingkirk]

Then Gar/Pax really dun messed up.

Why? I am not saying he is going to be a dud forever, just that it will take him time to adjust to the American way of life and the NBA game.

There is nothing wrong with that assertion.

[kingkirk]

So you must not trust McDermott either then right? So the Bulls best plan is to get Martin AND Thompson for Gibson so that the Bulls have protection for both Mirotic and McDermott.

McDermott is from the USA, has played against NBA players and is more ready for the NBA game than Mirotic is.

I would expect more from McDermott than Mirotic initially, so your comparison makes little sense.

[Rerisen]

Has he said he would agree to an extension asap? I've only heard that he would resign, but the timeline of that has not been stipulated, be it now or next off season.

I assume if he gave an assurance he would not Boozer it, regardless of Rose. Or they could get that question answered first.