Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[Axl Rose]

ESPN text alert just now-

ESPN- Timberwolves engaged in Kevin Love trade talks with only the Cavs, Marc Stein, Brian Windhorst report

He's not coming here y'all. We all know that right?

i knew this back when Bron announced he was going back to Cleveland

[ATRAIN53]

I never thought that offer was real, there's no way the Bulls made those draft day trades for McDermott only to trade the kid. They paid a heavy price to move up to get him. They covet him.

Same for Mirotec, no way they waited 3 years to ship him to MN.

So if CLE picks up LOVE now, this will go down as another time the Bulls value their own players too much to trade for a legit All Star.

This is Thibs wanting depth like Garpax said they would do this summer.

But there's no way McDermott, Mirotec or Taj will ever be the talent that Kevin Love is. That guy is a top tier NBA stud, the kind of player you trade assets to get because Superstars like this don't change teams often.

A couple of years from now if we're watching CLE contend for another title while Love and LeBron step up to the FT stripe and sink clutch buckets, while were at home watching we'll keep looking back at this.

We're a good team with a great coach and some depth, but we still lack Superstars.

[Hans Embiid]

I never thought that offer was real, there's no way the Bulls made those draft day trades for McDermott only to trade the kid. They paid a heavy price to move up to get him. They covet him.

Same for Mirotec, no way they waited 3 years to ship him to MN.

So if CLE picks up LOVE now, this will go down as another time the Bulls value their own players too much to trade for a legit All Star.

This is Thibs wanting depth like Garpax said they would do this summer.

But there's no way McDermott, Mirotec or Taj will ever be the talent that Kevin Love is. That guy is a top tier NBA stud, the kind of player you trade assets to get because Superstars like this don't change teams often.

A couple of years from now if we're watching CLE contend for another title while Love and LeBron step up to the FT stripe and sink clutch buckets, while were at home watching we'll keep looking back at this.

We're a good team with a great coach and some depth, but we still lack Superstars.

You better watch this guy McBuckets and don't do conclusions before. Everybody said Nash would be a bust or some other Hall of Famers or even Allstars.

[coldfish]

I never thought that offer was real, there's no way the Bulls made those draft day trades for McDermott only to trade the kid. They paid a heavy price to move up to get him. They covet him.

Same for Mirotec, no way they waited 3 years to ship him to MN.

So if CLE picks up LOVE now, this will go down as another time the Bulls value their own players too much to trade for a legit All Star.

This is Thibs wanting depth like Garpax said they would do this summer.

But there's no way McDermott, Mirotec or Taj will ever be the talent that Kevin Love is. That guy is a top tier NBA stud, the kind of player you trade assets to get because Superstars like this don't change teams often.

A couple of years from now if we're watching CLE contend for another title while Love and LeBron step up to the FT stripe and sink clutch buckets, while were at home watching we'll keep looking back at this.

We're a good team with a great coach and some depth, but we still lack Superstars.

That's all fine and I agree but let's step back for a minute.

A year ago, Bill Simmons coined the phrase "riggin' for Wiggins". Wiggins wasn't super in his freshman year but he still has off the charts potential. He has been more hyped than Rose was coming into the league. What are the rookie draft rights to a guy like Durant, Rose or Lebron worth?

I really don't think there is a package the Bulls can offer that could trump a Cleveland / Wiggins offer. Let's smash this idea in the bud. The Bulls have no shot of getting Love. Not trading for him is not a choice. Quite frankly, by not trying to keep their name in the media and drag their players through the mud for a "no chance" type proposition, the Bulls are being smart.

People will arbitrarily decide that McDermott and Mirotic are worth more than Wiggins, but they would be wrong. Let's just hope that M&M bust out so well that people look back in hindsight and bash Minnesota for it.

[AKfanatic]

So if CLE picks up LOVE now, this will go down as another time the Bulls value their own players too much to trade for a legit All Star.

Of course it will....not that it is true, but it will.

I'm sure it would have absolutely nothing, nada, zilch, to do with Minnesota preferring a package with Wiggins.

It will be because GarPax has some crazy man-love with Kirk Hinrich and wouldn't include the rights to his toothbrush in the deal.

Oh and of course because Reins..oops..Rein$dorf nixes any deal because of the implications of needing to spend money that he was saving to buy the White Sox some new jock straps.

[TheChad708]

Maybe the Bulls feel like they drove the price high enough for Cle?

[waffle]

I still think this could get messy

it sorta sounds like Love has said "trade me to Clev". Clev is not that good or deep. Bron is on a short contract and Love would have to agree to an extension...would he really do that if he was worried about Bron leaving or the potential of the team as configured?

To increase the chance for Clev to be good going forward I doubt Clev wants to trade too much youth/picks, but that is what Minny will be looking for in return.

I still think there is a very real chance that Clev, believing that they are the only partner in the dance, are coming back to minny with low ball offers. Minny is understandably reluctant

I think there is a good chance for a 3 way here. Or for someone else to swoop (unless Love will ONLY go there)

[Mech Engineer]

Cleveland looks like it will be the best team in the East. But, IMO, they have a lot of question marks. In hindsight, we have seen how new star teams work when Miami and Boston got together. They jelled quickly in a season and started contending. The difference here is the two additions to existing players...Garnett/Allen and LeBron/Bosh.

All four were experienced and had gone through a lot of failures in their careers. Irving/Love are in a different sphere compared to the the other duos joining an experienced star(Wade and Pierce).

They will probably feast in the regular season. But, the top of the East is better. It all depends on how teams match-up with Cleveland in the East. Good match-ups cannot take out experienced stars but novices like Love, Irving will have problems and will take time.

[Chowda]

There's a whole lot of denial going on around here. Cleveland is going to be good. Real good. With or without Love. For cripes sake, look at the supporting cast Lebron had last year: uhhhhh, a neutered Chris Bosh? Miami had zero rim protection, zero depth, and it was a cake walk. Cleveland's roster is already significantly better than Miami's was last year. He actually has a front court now, one that's about to get much better. Now, it may take a year or two for them to play like it, but there's no denying they're headed to the ECF right soon, and, depending how much of a homer you want to be, may or may not waltz to a bunch of finals appearances. And guess what, that's okay.

Oh, but the east got better u say? we got better! Actually, we're the real question mark here. Not Cleveland. Lebron has proven time and again that he can take a Chevy Nova to the Finals without batting an eye. We on the other hand don't know what we have in Derrick, have an ancient Pau Gasol, the most unproven and (possibly) bad wing rotation in the NBA. Now, we could be realz good. But the odds significantly favor Cleveland. And Vegas got it right.

[Peelboy]

Assuming a deal w Wiggins/Bennett/picks going for Love+filler (Barea?), Cleveland should be an offensive powerhouse, but defensively will be fairly sieve-like with only 2 guys remotely capable of defending (LeBron/Varejao). And if Varejao goes down 5 posters from this board could score on them. (And FWIW, history suggests that Varejao is a bigger injury risk than Pau even though he's 3 years younger.)

I'm not convinced that a superior offensive team with poor to middling D beats out a more offensively challenged but still balanced and deeper team. Not saying CLE wouldn't be the favorites, but it would be close IMO. And if MIN extracts Waiters along with Bennett/Wiggins in the deal, I'd take the Bulls.

Frankly, the potential for Wiggins to be a 2-way player scares me as much or more than Love on CLE.

[Proven_Winner]

So if CLE picks up LOVE now, this will go down as another time the Bulls value their own players too much to trade for a legit All Star.

Of course it will....not that it is true, but it will.

I'm sure it would have absolutely nothing, nada, zilch, to do with Minnesota preferring a package with Wiggins.

It will be because GarPax has some crazy man-love with Kirk Hinrich and wouldn't include the rights to his toothbrush in the deal.

Oh and of course because Reins..oops..Rein$dorf nixes any deal because of the implications of needing to spend money that he was saving to buy the White Sox some new jock straps.

The bashing has already started.

[jump]

LOL!

Yeah....ummmm....no

That sounds like some Knicks fan type stuff.

You pull for your team regardless. But that does not mean (to me) you run around screaming you are going to kick everyone's ass every game. Where you yelling that during the early 2000's?

You can sit back and play it safe all you want. If you don't feel the passion, you just don't feel it.

Well.....thanks for your permission to sit back and play it safe. For a minute I thought I was going to be forced into saying something that I didn't quite believe based on the threat of bodily harm...or even worse....having to face the scorn of an anonymous person on a web forum who tells me I don't fit their own definition of a fan and that I may have run out of passion fruit smoothies or something like that.

You think your sarcastic detachment puts you in a lofty position. It doesn't. It just makes you obnoxious.

[detlef_schrempf]

Everyone knows the Bulls aren't getting Love, and that they also aren't going to be involved in any trade that sends Love to the Cavs, in any fashion? Right?

[TheStig]

I never thought that offer was real, there's no way the Bulls made those draft day trades for McDermott only to trade the kid. They paid a heavy price to move up to get him. They covet him.

Same for Mirotec, no way they waited 3 years to ship him to MN.

So if CLE picks up LOVE now, this will go down as another time the Bulls value their own players too much to trade for a legit All Star.

This is Thibs wanting depth like Garpax said they would do this summer.

But there's no way McDermott, Mirotec or Taj will ever be the talent that Kevin Love is. That guy is a top tier NBA stud, the kind of player you trade assets to get because Superstars like this don't change teams often.

A couple of years from now if we're watching CLE contend for another title while Love and LeBron step up to the FT stripe and sink clutch buckets, while were at home watching we'll keep looking back at this.

We're a good team with a great coach and some depth, but we still lack Superstars.

That's all fine and I agree but let's step back for a minute.

A year ago, Bill Simmons coined the phrase "riggin' for Wiggins". Wiggins wasn't super in his freshman year but he still has off the charts potential. He has been more hyped than Rose was coming into the league. What are the rookie draft rights to a guy like Durant, Rose or Lebron worth?

I really don't think there is a package the Bulls can offer that could trump a Cleveland / Wiggins offer. Let's smash this idea in the bud. The Bulls have no shot of getting Love. Not trading for him is not a choice. Quite frankly, by not trying to keep their name in the media and drag their players through the mud for a "no chance" type proposition, the Bulls are being smart.

People will arbitrarily decide that McDermott and Mirotic are worth more than Wiggins, but they would be wrong. Let's just hope that M&M bust out so well that people look back in hindsight and bash Minnesota for it.

Fish, normally I would agree with you 100%. Normally when a team trades their star they rebuild. But this isn't the normal situation. The Wolves haven't made the playoffs in about 10 years. Their president is personally coming down to coach the team. They want to win and want to win bad. This is far a normal case where Wiggins has more value. Wiggins is a fine prospect but he isn't as NBA ready as Durant, Rose or Bron were. Taj is a seasoned all defense player. Mirotic has years of pro experience at 23. Dougie is NBA ready. To the wolves, that a package is better. Through a young guy like Butler into the mix and that's a massive return to flip.

[coldfish]

Fish, normally I would agree with you 100%. Normally when a team trades their star they rebuild. But this isn't the normal situation. The Wolves haven't made the playoffs in about 10 years. Their president is personally coming down to coach the team. They want to win and want to win bad. This is far a normal case where Wiggins has more value. Wiggins is a fine prospect but he isn't as NBA ready as Durant, Rose or Bron were. Taj is a seasoned all defense player. Mirotic has years of pro experience at 23. Dougie is NBA ready. To the wolves, that a package is better. Through a young guy like Butler into the mix and that's a massive return to flip.

IMO, the Wolves have been leaking this type of stuff to drive up Cleveland's price. Last year this time, Wiggins was a generational talent. The trade value of guys like that is ridiculous. If Wiggins hadn't had a slightly disappointing year, Minnesota would be the ones who would have to add stuff to get a Love for Wiggins deal.

[panthermark]

You can sit back and play it safe all you want. If you don't feel the passion, you just don't feel it.

Well.....thanks for your permission to sit back and play it safe. For a minute I thought I was going to be forced into saying something that I didn't quite believe based on the threat of bodily harm...or even worse....having to face the scorn of an anonymous person on a web forum who tells me I don't fit their own definition of a fan and that I may have run out of passion fruit smoothies or something like that.

You think your sarcastic detachment puts you in a lofty position. It doesn't. It just makes you obnoxious.

You may want to get a refund from whatever internet site you got your psychoanalysis degree from. I don't think that at all. But I do find it interesting that you think I do. (I got my degree from the same site...best $9.99 I ever spent!)

A lofty place based on my sarcastic detachment because I looked at the teams objectively? Obnoxious because I don't subscribe to YOUR defintion of a fan?

And do you not even see the irony in calling someone obnoxious when you where who stated that being a fan means spitting in their eye and telling them you are going to kick their ass? Or telling me I can "play it safe" when that phrase has no actual meaning. If I'm playing it safe, what are you doing? Living on the egde?
Unless you are actually one of the players, neither one of has ANY impact on the game played, nor are there ANY consequences to own actions or approaches (unless you are betting big money one the Bulls).

Please share how you don't play it safe.....what do you have at stake?

[Payt10]

People will arbitrarily decide that McDermott and Mirotic are worth more than Wiggins, but they would be wrong. Let's just hope that M&M bust out so well that people look back in hindsight and bash Minnesota for it.

McDermott, Mirotic, and Taj is a better package than Wiggins and Bennett. Wiggins is nowhere near Lebron, KD/Oden, Anthony Davis, and Blake Griffin's level, in terms of the #1 pick worthiness. He is much more of a project with high boom or bust potential. Most people seemed to rate Embid and Jabari ahead of him in this year's draft.

[jump]

Well.....thanks for your permission to sit back and play it safe. For a minute I thought I was going to be forced into saying something that I didn't quite believe based on the threat of bodily harm...or even worse....having to face the scorn of an anonymous person on a web forum who tells me I don't fit their own definition of a fan and that I may have run out of passion fruit smoothies or something like that.

You think your sarcastic detachment puts you in a lofty position. It doesn't. It just makes you obnoxious.

You may want to get a refund from whatever internet site you got your psychoanalysis degree from. I don't think that at all. But I do find it interesting that you think I do. (I got my degree from the same site...best $9.99 I ever spent!)

A lofty place based on my sarcastic detachment because I looked at the teams objectively? Obnoxious because I don't subscribe to YOUR defintion of a fan?

And do you not even see the irony in calling someone obnoxious when you where who stated that being a fan means spitting in their eye and telling them you are going to kick their ass? Or telling me I can "play it safe" when that phrase has no actual meaning. If I'm playing it safe, what are you doing? Living on the egde?
Unless you are actually one of the players, neither one of has ANY impact on the game played, nor are there ANY consequences to own actions or approaches (unless you are betting big money one the Bulls).

Please share how you don't play it safe.....what do you have at stake?

Your hyperbolic sarcasm, with its self-impressed cleverness that you've been using throughout this thread to belittle those who don't have your (it seems you view it as) intellectual analysis - besides how longwinded they are - speak to someone who is afraid of something. If it's being disappointed by your team, you can relax a little. We all live with that. It's the nature of being a fan (derivative of "fanatic").

[TheStig]

Fish, normally I would agree with you 100%. Normally when a team trades their star they rebuild. But this isn't the normal situation. The Wolves haven't made the playoffs in about 10 years. Their president is personally coming down to coach the team. They want to win and want to win bad. This is far a normal case where Wiggins has more value. Wiggins is a fine prospect but he isn't as NBA ready as Durant, Rose or Bron were. Taj is a seasoned all defense player. Mirotic has years of pro experience at 23. Dougie is NBA ready. To the wolves, that a package is better. Through a young guy like Butler into the mix and that's a massive return to flip.

IMO, the Wolves have been leaking this type of stuff to drive up Cleveland's price. Last year this time, Wiggins was a generational talent. The trade value of guys like that is ridiculous. If Wiggins hadn't had a slightly disappointing year, Minnesota would be the ones who would have to add stuff to get a Love for Wiggins deal.

I really don't think its just talk. Flip doesn't want to couch a lottery team. And Wiggins isn't a generational talent. I think if the Cav's took Parker, this deal would have been done already. Parker, Waiters, Thompson would have gotten it done.

[Swarles Xavier]

Fish, normally I would agree with you 100%. Normally when a team trades their star they rebuild. But this isn't the normal situation. The Wolves haven't made the playoffs in about 10 years. Their president is personally coming down to coach the team. They want to win and want to win bad. This is far a normal case where Wiggins has more value. Wiggins is a fine prospect but he isn't as NBA ready as Durant, Rose or Bron were. Taj is a seasoned all defense player. Mirotic has years of pro experience at 23. Dougie is NBA ready. To the wolves, that a package is better. Through a young guy like Butler into the mix and that's a massive return to flip.

IMO, the Wolves have been leaking this type of stuff to drive up Cleveland's price. Last year this time, Wiggins was a generational talent. The trade value of guys like that is ridiculous. If Wiggins hadn't had a slightly disappointing year, Minnesota would be the ones who would have to add stuff to get a Love for Wiggins deal.

I really don't think its just talk. Flip doesn't want to couch a lottery team. And Wiggins isn't a generational talent. I think if the Cav's took Parker, this deal would have been done already. Parker, Waiters, Thompson would have gotten it done.

Well if you believe espn it looks like the deal is done already. It's just that the teams can't confirm it since it is not allowed to do so until the 30 days is up for Wiggins.