Wall vs. Kyrie for the last pg spot according to USA Today

[FlightNumber23]

I think something that everyone needs to keep in mind is that all these players are all amazing. As a cavs fan, I have a natural tendency to defend kyrie and support him but I know that each has skills that the other two don't excel at as evidenced by the comparison chart posted previously. In defense of kyrie, the system he was in was not conducive to his previous teams and this his stats fell. Going from offense first to defense first doesn't help an offense first players stats. They were still better than 90% of players in the league and would be coveted by anyone on this board obviously. 2nd part of the defense for kyrie is that he has had more game winning/clutch shots in his CAREER than Damian, so let's cut that arguement out. He also had to play as the #1 option compared to Damian's number 2. It's easier to be more efficient and have better stats when you have a better player around you(exactly why I expect kyrie to have a jump this year). I can't take anything away from the successes that their teams had this year but let's not act like kyrie wouldn't have been successful on those respective teams. Roster construction and coaches schemes can have a huge part in a players stats/successes.

Yea I agree, people forget that Lillard plays with LMA which takes pressure and double teams off him. All the focus is on Kyrie in Cleveland and stopping him. I am anxious to see how good he can be when hes not playing as the number 1 option this year.

Another reason why I think Kyrie had a down year is like you said, the coach and system. Mike Brown is a moron on the offensive end. He is Mr. Half Court slow paced guy. The only thing is our entire team is a bunch of athletic 22 year olds so RUN THE FLOOR! Byron Scott got this and thats why our offense was much better when he was the coach because he let guys like Kyrie/Dion make plays running the floor and utilizing their slashing abilities. Kyrie is not a Tony Parker type of PG (half court PG) for him to be most effective you need to let him run and spread the floor. This is why Kyrie shines during ASG/Team USA events because all of those players run the floor and the games are fast.

Hopefuly Blatt can take advantage of having a super young athletic lineup and form an offense that is tailored for their strenghts because putting a bunch of guys like that in a half court slow paced offense is like putting them in a box.

[Willarmm]

I think something that everyone needs to keep in mind is that all these players are all amazing. As a cavs fan, I have a natural tendency to defend kyrie and support him but I know that each has skills that the other two don't excel at as evidenced by the comparison chart posted previously. In defense of kyrie, the system he was in was not conducive to his previous teams and this his stats fell. Going from offense first to defense first doesn't help an offense first players stats. They were still better than 90% of players in the league and would be coveted by anyone on this board obviously. 2nd part of the defense for kyrie is that he has had more game winning/clutch shots in his CAREER than Damian, so let's cut that arguement out. He also had to play as the #1 option compared to Damian's number 2. It's easier to be more efficient and have better stats when you have a better player around you(exactly why I expect kyrie to have a jump this year). I can't take anything away from the successes that their teams had this year but let's not act like kyrie wouldn't have been successful on those respective teams. Roster construction and coaches schemes can have a huge part in a players stats/successes.

Yea I agree, people forget that Lillard plays with LMA which takes pressure and double teams off him. All the focus is on Kyrie in Cleveland and stopping him. I am anxious to see how good he can be when hes not playing as the number 1 option this year.

Another reason why I think Kyrie had a down year is like you said, the coach and system. Mike Brown is a moron on the offensive end. He is Mr. Half Court slow paced guy. The only thing is our entire team is a bunch of athletic 22 year olds so RUN THE FLOOR! Byron Scott got this and thats why our offense was much better when he was the coach because he let guys like Kyrie/Dion make plays running the floor and utilizing their slashing abilities. Kyrie is not a Tony Parker type of PG (half court PG) for him to be most effective you need to let him run and spread the floor. This is why Kyrie shines during ASG/Team USA events because all of those players run the floor and the games are fast.

Hopefuly Blatt can take advantage of having a super young athletic lineup and form an offense that is tailored for their strenghts because putting a bunch of guys like that in a half court slow paced offense is like putting them in a box.

[Wizardspride]

Surprising...
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/08/0 ... -hopefuls/

The other point guard

Colangelo told USA Today on Wednesday that it would be hard to keep more than one “pure point” on the roster, and labeled Rose, Kyrie Irving and John Wall as the true points in camp.

So it seems clear that one roster spot will come down to Irving vs. Wall. Irving is the more dynamic one-on-one player, but Wall is the better passer and defender.

Also, while Irving (35.8 percent) was a slightly better 3-point shooter than Wall (35.1 percent) overall last season, Wall was much better on catch-and-shoot opportunities. Wall had a 3-point percentage of 43.1 percent and an effective field-goal percentage of 60.8 percent on catch-and-shoot jumpers, while Irving’s numbers were just 32.1 percent and 46.0 percent. Opponents will pack the paint and hope the U.S. Team is having an off night from the perimeter, so catch-and-shoot skills should be more important than pull-up skills with this team.

[mademan]

Surprising...
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/08/0 ... -hopefuls/

The other point guard

Colangelo told USA Today on Wednesday that it would be hard to keep more than one “pure point” on the roster, and labeled Rose, Kyrie Irving and John Wall as the true points in camp.

So it seems clear that one roster spot will come down to Irving vs. Wall. Irving is the more dynamic one-on-one player, but Wall is the better passer and defender.

Also, while Irving (35.8 percent) was a slightly better 3-point shooter than Wall (35.1 percent) overall last season, Wall was much better on catch-and-shoot opportunities. Wall had a 3-point percentage of 43.1 percent and an effective field-goal percentage of 60.8 percent on catch-and-shoot jumpers, while Irving’s numbers were just 32.1 percent and 46.0 percent. Opponents will pack the paint and hope the U.S. Team is having an off night from the perimeter, so catch-and-shoot skills should be more important than pull-up skills with this team.

Cmon bruh, Kyries a much better shooter than Wall.

[Sonny Carson]

Coach K and Kyrie are sitting together for an ESPN interview...

I guess its safe to say Kyrie has made the squad.

[Wizardspride]

Surprising...
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/08/0 ... -hopefuls/

The other point guard

Colangelo told USA Today on Wednesday that it would be hard to keep more than one “pure point” on the roster, and labeled Rose, Kyrie Irving and John Wall as the true points in camp.

So it seems clear that one roster spot will come down to Irving vs. Wall. Irving is the more dynamic one-on-one player, but Wall is the better passer and defender.

Also, while Irving (35.8 percent) was a slightly better 3-point shooter than Wall (35.1 percent) overall last season, Wall was much better on catch-and-shoot opportunities. Wall had a 3-point percentage of 43.1 percent and an effective field-goal percentage of 60.8 percent on catch-and-shoot jumpers, while Irving’s numbers were just 32.1 percent and 46.0 percent. Opponents will pack the paint and hope the U.S. Team is having an off night from the perimeter, so catch-and-shoot skills should be more important than pull-up skills with this team.

Cmon bruh, Kyries a much better shooter than Wall.

That's why it's surprising......

[JWizmentality]

Surprising...
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/08/0 ... -hopefuls/

The other point guard

Colangelo told USA Today on Wednesday that it would be hard to keep more than one “pure point” on the roster, and labeled Rose, Kyrie Irving and John Wall as the true points in camp.

So it seems clear that one roster spot will come down to Irving vs. Wall. Irving is the more dynamic one-on-one player, but Wall is the better passer and defender.

Also, while Irving (35.8 percent) was a slightly better 3-point shooter than Wall (35.1 percent) overall last season, Wall was much better on catch-and-shoot opportunities. Wall had a 3-point percentage of 43.1 percent and an effective field-goal percentage of 60.8 percent on catch-and-shoot jumpers, while Irving’s numbers were just 32.1 percent and 46.0 percent. Opponents will pack the paint and hope the U.S. Team is having an off night from the perimeter, so catch-and-shoot skills should be more important than pull-up skills with this team.

Cmon bruh, Kyries a much better shooter than Wall.

Prove it with stats.

[Mumbles]

When I objectively watch Kyrie and John Wall i do not come away with this notion that Wall is a much better passer than Kyrie. If he is then it isn't by much. One down year and Kyrie is getting underrated.

[whocurrz]

Surprising...
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/08/0 ... -hopefuls/

The other point guard

Colangelo told USA Today on Wednesday that it would be hard to keep more than one “pure point” on the roster, and labeled Rose, Kyrie Irving and John Wall as the true points in camp.

So it seems clear that one roster spot will come down to Irving vs. Wall. Irving is the more dynamic one-on-one player, but Wall is the better passer and defender.

Also, while Irving (35.8 percent) was a slightly better 3-point shooter than Wall (35.1 percent) overall last season, Wall was much better on catch-and-shoot opportunities. Wall had a 3-point percentage of 43.1 percent and an effective field-goal percentage of 60.8 percent on catch-and-shoot jumpers, while Irving’s numbers were just 32.1 percent and 46.0 percent. Opponents will pack the paint and hope the U.S. Team is having an off night from the perimeter, so catch-and-shoot skills should be more important than pull-up skills with this team.

Cmon bruh, Kyries a much better shooter than Wall.

Well stats don't lie and unless the sample sizes for both 2 and 3 point attempts are vastly different between the two players it's pretty clear that Wall was the better catch and shoot player. Maybe Wall gets more space but those stats tell me that Wall is a very capable catch and shoot guy. Also Wall has improved a ton as a shooter and Kyrie has more or less plateaued so far. Kyrie is a good shooter but he's always been a better off the dribble shooter. Even Cavs fans have been saying that Kyrie isn't a great off ball player and that's why they need to keep Waiters now that they've added Lebron. The real question is if catch and shoot opportunities will be more beneficial for the PGs than off the dribble shooting as zones will prevent extensive dribble penetration but allow it on the perimeter

[Wizenheimer]

2nd part of the defense for kyrie is that he has had more game winning/clutch shots in his CAREER than Damian, so let's cut that arguement out.

no, let's not cut that argument out just because you want to

last season, clutch time shooting numbers (according to 82games):

FG%: Irving .376....Lillard .473
eFG%: Irving .423...Lillard .577
DrawFoul%: Irving 11.4%...Lillard 11.7%

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but if accurate, they may derive from another clutch-time stat:

FGA/48: Irving 37.0....Lillard 23.1

Irving has been getting a higher rate of opportunities in clutch time. That equals a rate of 61% more FGA

besides all that, at least for last season the magnitude of game winning shots that Lillard made surpasses those of any Irving has made. That's a simple function of being a go-to player for a playoff team rather then a lottery team

[He Filled it Up]

Yea I agree, people forget that Lillard plays with LMA which takes pressure and double teams off him. All the focus is on Kyrie in Cleveland and stopping him. I am anxious to see how good he can be when hes not playing as the number 1 option this year.

Well their potential teammates on Team USA are much better than either of either NBA rosters, so I'm not sure this argument is completely relevant. Unless you're saying that's why Kyrie's stats are worse, but the counter there is Lillard is more accustomed to being a secondary player.

But the big point, which an poster just presented, is Kyrie has been a terrible catch-and-shoot player. It's actually incredible how bad he's been given how good his other stats are. Given that he would absolutely be a complimentary on this squad, I don't really see Kyrie as that valuable. Between him and Wall I would side towards Wall, just because if some small guard is killing us Coach K can go to Wall and say "Just make that guy's life hell, when you're in the game he doesn't touch the ball".

I think that's more valuable then Kyrie's shooting, and if that's his only edge then you'd be better off with another one of the wings (Thompson/Beal/Korver) anyway.

[Wizardspride]

When I objectively watch Kyrie and John Wall i do not come away with this notion that Wall is a much better passer than Kyrie. If he is then it isn't by much. One down year and Kyrie is getting underrated.

Stats say differently.

[Mumbles]

When I objectively watch Kyrie and John Wall i do not come away with this notion that Wall is a much better passer than Kyrie. If he is then it isn't by much. One down year and Kyrie is getting underrated.

Stats say differently.

Stats say a lot things.

[Wizardspride]

When I objectively watch Kyrie and John Wall i do not come away with this notion that Wall is a much better passer than Kyrie. If he is then it isn't by much. One down year and Kyrie is getting underrated.

Stats say differently.

Stats say a lot things.

You're right but that's how we measure things.

Stats, figures etc etc.

[mademan]

Surprising...
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/08/0 ... -hopefuls/

The other point guard

Colangelo told USA Today on Wednesday that it would be hard to keep more than one “pure point” on the roster, and labeled Rose, Kyrie Irving and John Wall as the true points in camp.

So it seems clear that one roster spot will come down to Irving vs. Wall. Irving is the more dynamic one-on-one player, but Wall is the better passer and defender.

Also, while Irving (35.8 percent) was a slightly better 3-point shooter than Wall (35.1 percent) overall last season, Wall was much better on catch-and-shoot opportunities. Wall had a 3-point percentage of 43.1 percent and an effective field-goal percentage of 60.8 percent on catch-and-shoot jumpers, while Irving’s numbers were just 32.1 percent and 46.0 percent. Opponents will pack the paint and hope the U.S. Team is having an off night from the perimeter, so catch-and-shoot skills should be more important than pull-up skills with this team.

Cmon bruh, Kyries a much better shooter than Wall.

Prove it with stats.

Kyrie Irvng, before this past year, had 2 years of near 40% 3pt shooting at near 5 attempts per game. 1 season under a dysfunctional coach doesnt make Wall, a cerrer 31% 3pter, a better shooter than him.

Cmon bruh, this isn't even a question. When you see players Rondoing Wall while closing out hard on Kyrie, it's not hard to tell who's the better shooter.

[Mumbles]

Stats say differently.

Stats say a lot things.

You're right but that's how we measure things.

Stats, figures etc etc.

Lol, and how many times do stats not tell the whole story. Again, when I watch both players I do not come away with Wall is a considerably better passer than Irving. You root for Wall that's fine, and i'm giving my opinion.

[Wizardspride]

Stats say a lot things.

You're right but that's how we measure things.

Stats, figures etc etc.

Lol, and how many times do stats not tell the whole story. Again, when I watch both players I do not come away with Wall is a considerably better passer than Irving. You root for Wall that's fine, and i'm giving my opinion.

Fine.

[eltercero]

When I objectively watch Kyrie and John Wall i do not come away with this notion that Wall is a much better passer than Kyrie. If he is then it isn't by much. One down year and Kyrie is getting underrated.

Stats say differently.

Wall has had better teammates and ones who can move without the ball and shoot after the catch. Irving hasn't.

[JWizmentality]

Cmon bruh, Kyries a much better shooter than Wall.

Prove it with stats.

Kyrie Irvng, before this past year, had 2 years of near 40% 3pt shooting at near 5 attempts per game. 1 season under a dysfunctional coach doesnt make Wall, a cerrer 31% 3pter, a better shooter than him.

Cmon bruh, this isn't even a question. When you see players Rondoing Wall while closing out hard on Kyrie, it's not hard to tell who's the better shooter.

His FG% and 3pt% has also gone down each year. And no, for as much as you Kyrie fans want to cover your ears and go la la la la, last year won't be thrown out just like Wall's years playing with the like of Blatche, Mcgee and Swaggy P.

[Wizardspride]

When I objectively watch Kyrie and John Wall i do not come away with this notion that Wall is a much better passer than Kyrie. If he is then it isn't by much. One down year and Kyrie is getting underrated.

Stats say differently.

Wall has better teammates and ones who can move without the ball and shoot after the catch. Irving doesn't.

I would agree with you if not for one thing: Wall was putting up assists numbers when he played with crappy teammates as well.