NBA ChoK16 - the Rich Cho Thread

[Hornet Mania]

I also have a tough time believing that Cho targeted Lance early on. I think in hindsight it appears that way, especially to national media, because the Lance signing seems like such a no-brainer. But I still believe we came perilously close to totally striking out, and presumably because Lance was never our main target until the 12th hour. From the smattering of poorly-updated media reports we got (thanks, Bonnell) I got the impression the timeline went something like:

-Cho presumably offered McBob the deal Marvin Williams got, McBob passed for more money in Miami.
-Cho coveted Gordon Hayward, loose talk claimed Jordan liked Lance but no official indication of contact with him yet.
-Hayward brought in, we wow him, offer the max, Utah matches.
-Team signs Williams/Roberts. Still no official indication of interest in Lance.
-Out of the blue, we get the report that Lance is in talks with the Hornets and very shortly thereafter he signs. Reports later claim MJ himself sat him down to make a pitch, further insinuating he was MJ's guy.

I applaud Cho for making this off-season the success that it was (on paper, anyway), but I do think we fell into some luck as well. He obviously favored Hayward mightily, and while I think that was a mistake Utah didn't let us make it so it's water under the bridge now. Contending teams fall into good luck here and there, and I hope that settling for Lance at a bargain contract will be the event we look back on years from now and say "holy crap, we came that close to not doing the best and most obvious move possible".

[mrknowitall215]

Outside of the last ditch effort to sign Lance Stephenson, I'm still disappointed in this offseason, particularly the free-agency, because I thought the chips fell right into place in the draft process. Maybe I had too lofty of expectations with the cap space we had, but coming away with Marvin Williams & Brian Roberts is extremely lackluster when you think about who else we could've had for those price tags, not to mention losing Josh McRoberts, Anthony Tolliver, and likely Chris Douglas-Roberts. I'd take a return of McRoberts, Tolliver, and CDR over Marvin Williams, Brian Roberts, and Jeff Taylor returning from injury 10 times out of 10. I refrain to use Stephenson in that equation, because Stephenson theoretically replaced Ben Gordon

[SWedd523]

So you're saying if you don't count all the good things that happened, it was a bad offseason?

Makes sense

[mrknowitall215]

So you're saying if you don't count all the good things that happened, it was a bad offseason?

Makes sense

No, I'm saying that there's good and there's bad. That makes sense, don't it? Or you still can't comprehend?

[SWedd523]

So you're saying if you don't count all the good things that happened, it was a bad offseason?

Makes sense

No, I'm saying that there's good and there's bad. That makes sense, don't it? Or you still can't comprehend?

No, that might have been what you meant, but not at all what you said.

I'm still disappointed in this offseason

Don't see much good there. In fact, some of the "good" that did happen, according you you:

fell right into place in the draft process

which gives off an air of dumb luck, instead of doing good.

Then for some reason you say this

I refrain to use Stephenson in that equation, because Stephenson theoretically replaced Ben Gordon

Which doesn't make sense at all to me in the first place, but was also a resounding GOOD thing that happened this offseason. Yet you conveniently want to refrain from using it.

[mrknowitall215]

Don't try to omit statements. I'll break it down in laymen's terms:

I'm disappointed in this offseason

I like the fact that we signed Lance Stephenson despite it being a last ditch effort

I think we did well in the draft since everything fell right into place

Overall, I didn't like what we left free-agency with

I'd rather have Josh McRoberts, Anthony Tolliver, & CDR than Marvin Williams, Brian Roberts, & Jeff Taylor 10 times out of 10 if I had the chance to pick

Using the aforementioned equation with McRoberts & Williams among others, that's where I refrained from including Lance Stephenson, not the overall offseason

There you go...

Like I stated, I'm disappointed in this offseason because I had loftier expectations, not because it was bad. I expected to land Stephenson and then bring in some other beyond serviceable quality players with the rest of the cap space we had. I expected to re-sign McRoberts, but that might've been out of Cho's hands. I expected to sign a veteran savvy former All-Star caliber PG to be our backup in one of Jameer Nelson or Mo Williams instead of a unproven journeyman like Brian Roberts. Add onto that, I dislike Marvin Williams as a player, even more at the contract we signed him to

[BeesWax]

Don't try to omit statements. I'll break it down in laymen's terms:

I'm disappointed in this offseason

I like the fact that we signed Lance Stephenson despite it being a last ditch effort

I think we did well in the draft since everything fell right into place

Overall, I didn't like what we left free-agency with

I'd rather have Josh McRoberts, Anthony Tolliver, & CDR than Marvin Williams, Brian Roberts, & Jeff Taylor 10 times out of 10 if I had the chance to pick

Using the aforementioned equation with McRoberts & Williams among others, that's where I refrained from including Lance Stephenson, not the overall offseason

There you go...

Like I stated, I'm disappointed in this offseason because I had loftier expectations, not because it was bad. I expected to land Stephenson and then bring in some other beyond serviceable quality players with the rest of the cap space we had. I expected to re-sign McRoberts, but that might've been out of Cho's hands. I expected to sign a veteran savvy former All-Star caliber PG to be our backup in one of Jameer Nelson or Mo Williams instead of a unproven journeyman like Brian Roberts. Add onto that, I dislike Marvin Williams as a player, even more at the contract we signed him to

Swedd was right in what he said. You way have meant something different but you did say you didn't like the offseason.

[yosemiteben]

I think we got a near best case scenario this offseason. I'm very happy with how it shook out. I'm very curious to see what the 2016 plan is.

[mrknowitall215]

Don't try to omit statements. I'll break it down in laymen's terms:

I'm disappointed in this offseason

I like the fact that we signed Lance Stephenson despite it being a last ditch effort

I think we did well in the draft since everything fell right into place

Overall, I didn't like what we left free-agency with

I'd rather have Josh McRoberts, Anthony Tolliver, & CDR than Marvin Williams, Brian Roberts, & Jeff Taylor 10 times out of 10 if I had the chance to pick

Using the aforementioned equation with McRoberts & Williams among others, that's where I refrained from including Lance Stephenson, not the overall offseason

There you go...

Like I stated, I'm disappointed in this offseason because I had loftier expectations, not because it was bad. I expected to land Stephenson and then bring in some other beyond serviceable quality players with the rest of the cap space we had. I expected to re-sign McRoberts, but that might've been out of Cho's hands. I expected to sign a veteran savvy former All-Star caliber PG to be our backup in one of Jameer Nelson or Mo Williams instead of a unproven journeyman like Brian Roberts. Add onto that, I dislike Marvin Williams as a player, even more at the contract we signed him to

Swedd was right in what he said. You way have meant something different but you did say you didn't like the offseason.

disappointed
dis·ap·point·ed; disəˈpointid/
*adjective* (of a person) sad or displeased because someone or something has failed to fulfill one's hopes or expectations.

I'm disappointed in the offseason, but the signing of Lance Stephenson on top of a beyond solid draft class make it acceptable. If I had to grade this offseason, I'd give it a 'B', but I feel like it could've been better

If we hadn't signed Stephenson, I would've hated this offseason. I've said it before we signed Stephenson in the midst of turmoil when things were looking bleak, only a signing of Stephenson will allow me to accept this offseason for Charlotte

[BeesWax]

Don't try to omit statements. I'll break it down in laymen's terms:

I'm disappointed in this offseason

I like the fact that we signed Lance Stephenson despite it being a last ditch effort

I think we did well in the draft since everything fell right into place

Overall, I didn't like what we left free-agency with

I'd rather have Josh McRoberts, Anthony Tolliver, & CDR than Marvin Williams, Brian Roberts, & Jeff Taylor 10 times out of 10 if I had the chance to pick

Using the aforementioned equation with McRoberts & Williams among others, that's where I refrained from including Lance Stephenson, not the overall offseason

There you go...

Like I stated, I'm disappointed in this offseason because I had loftier expectations, not because it was bad. I expected to land Stephenson and then bring in some other beyond serviceable quality players with the rest of the cap space we had. I expected to re-sign McRoberts, but that might've been out of Cho's hands. I expected to sign a veteran savvy former All-Star caliber PG to be our backup in one of Jameer Nelson or Mo Williams instead of a unproven journeyman like Brian Roberts. Add onto that, I dislike Marvin Williams as a player, even more at the contract we signed him to

Swedd was right in what he said. You way have meant something different but you did say you didn't like the offseason.

disappointed
dis·ap·point·ed; disəˈpointid/
*adjective* (of a person) sad or displeased because someone or something has failed to fulfill one's hopes or expectations.

I'm disappointed in the offseason, but the signing of Lance Stephenson on top of a beyond solid draft class make it acceptable. If I had to grade this offseason, I'd give it a 'B', but I feel like it could've been better

If we hadn't signed Stephenson, I would've hated this offseason. I've said it before we signed Stephenson in the midst of turmoil when things were looking bleak, only a signing of Stephenson will allow me to accept this offseason for Charlotte

If you remove the top two things in any offseason for any team I would be disappointed. So yeah if it weren't for the Love trade and signing LeBron I would be disappointed in their offseason.

[Bassman]

Generally I'd say Cho succeeded but also agree he lucked out with how Lance played out. I am not thrilled with Marvin, would have preferred someone else via a trade, but from available FA's he might work out till Noah is ready in a year or two. A lot is yet to be determined. We've had a lot of changes, and I'd like one more via dealing a SG for a big.

[mrknowitall215]

Swedd was right in what he said. You way have meant something different but you did say you didn't like the offseason.

disappointed
dis·ap·point·ed; disəˈpointid/
*adjective* (of a person) sad or displeased because someone or something has failed to fulfill one's hopes or expectations.

I'm disappointed in the offseason, but the signing of Lance Stephenson on top of a beyond solid draft class make it acceptable. If I had to grade this offseason, I'd give it a 'B', but I feel like it could've been better

If we hadn't signed Stephenson, I would've hated this offseason. I've said it before we signed Stephenson in the midst of turmoil when things were looking bleak, only a signing of Stephenson will allow me to accept this offseason for Charlotte

If you remove the top two things in any offseason for any team I would be disappointed. So yeah if it weren't for the Love trade and signing LeBron I would be disappointed in their offseason.

[BeesWax]

disappointed
dis·ap·point·ed; disəˈpointid/
*adjective* (of a person) sad or displeased because someone or something has failed to fulfill one's hopes or expectations.

I'm disappointed in the offseason, but the signing of Lance Stephenson on top of a beyond solid draft class make it acceptable. If I had to grade this offseason, I'd give it a 'B', but I feel like it could've been better

If we hadn't signed Stephenson, I would've hated this offseason. I've said it before we signed Stephenson in the midst of turmoil when things were looking bleak, only a signing of Stephenson will allow me to accept this offseason for Charlotte

If you remove the top two things in any offseason for any team I would be disappointed. So yeah if it weren't for the Love trade and signing LeBron I would be disappointed in their offseason.

We'll I am just taking your approach. Disregard the best moves and just judge completely by the rest. Williams and Roberts may not have been flashy but both fit the teams needs and keep our cap flexibility for 2016. So the are OK moves that fit the long term plan and then you add the rest of the offseason and we have a top 5 offseason.

[yosemiteben]

Every move we made addressed a position of need + signed no bad contracts + major upgrades in talent = successful offseason. I don't get how you can be disappointed in that.

[mrknowitall215]

Every move we made addressed a position of need + signed no bad contracts + major upgrades in talent = successful offseason. I don't get how you can be disappointed in that.

Considering Marvin Williams & Brian Roberts, these two questionable pluses are up for heavy debate

[mrknowitall215]

Yes, we got better just by the addition of Lance Stephenson, but I feel like we could've gotten better. That's just a hypothetical. Based on my lofty expectations, yes I am disappointed, but do I think it was a bad offseason, no

[BeesWax]

Yes, we got better just by the addition of Lance Stephenson, but I feel like we could've gotten better. That's just a hypothetical. Based on my lofty expectations, yes I am disappointed, but do I think it was a bad offseason, no

How? Who fit our price tag provided shooting we wanted and would take a two year deal? I don't think there were many players out there who fit our needs and plan.

[yosemiteben]

I think that's the problem with your perspective MKIA. It's like you think every single move needed to be a major upgrade in talent or else you're disappointed and the moves that seem obvious to you don't count.

Brian Roberts is a solid backup that finally gives us some perimeter shooting ability from the backup PG spot. We signed him for $2.5M per year for two years. That is a good contract and signing.

We've discussed ad nauseam the Marvin Williams signing. I'll take a two year contract paying $14M total over a four year deal paying $22M total, especially given the fact that we have two promising young PFs already on the roster. A two year $7M per contract is not a bad contract. We had the space and it's not going to keep us from any signings we wanted to do in the future. I think Marvin will fit the McRoberts role just fine. I get you don't like him though, so I get how that is influencing your perspective on our offseason.

I feel like you continue to demonstrate your unwillingness to view the offseason as a whole. Our draft was about as good as it could be. Lance was a home run signing. Roberts was a good signing. Marvin addressed a position of need for a contract that fits our plans. Maybe we didn't do literally everything you wanted us to do, but on the whole it's pretty obvious that this was a positive offseason.

[mrknowitall215]

Yes, we got better just by the addition of Lance Stephenson, but I feel like we could've gotten better. That's just a hypothetical. Based on my lofty expectations, yes I am disappointed, but do I think it was a bad offseason, no

How? Who fit our price tag provided shooting we wanted and would take a two year deal? I don't think there were many players out there who fit our needs and plan.

Mo Williams signed a 1-year deal with Minnesota for $3.75 million and Jameer Nelson signed a 2-year deal with Dallas worth $3 million annually. I would've much rather preferred to sign one of them over Brian Roberts

As far as the Marvin Williams debacle out of desperation, I don't need to list the long list of players that would've been better fits despite not being able to shoot 3-pointers. I'm not one in the belief that we need a PF that can stretch the floor as much as I believe we need a PF that can help Jefferson defend the paint

[BeesWax]

Yes, we got better just by the addition of Lance Stephenson, but I feel like we could've gotten better. That's just a hypothetical. Based on my lofty expectations, yes I am disappointed, but do I think it was a bad offseason, no

How? Who fit our price tag provided shooting we wanted and would take a two year deal? I don't think there were many players out there who fit our needs and plan.

Mo Williams signed a 1-year deal with Minnesota for $3.75 million and Jameer Nelson signed a 2-year deal with Dallas worth $3 million annually. I would've much rather preferred to sign one of them over Brian Roberts

As far as the Marvin Williams debacle out of desperation, I don't need to list the long list of players that would've been better fits despite not being able to shoot 3-pointers. I'm not one in the belief that we need a PF that can stretch the floor as much as I believe we need a PF that can help Jefferson defend the paint

Roberts averages more win shares per 48 and more points per 100 possessions than either of those two last season. It is tough to see who is better but like you said both the other guys got paid more annually.

The team sees the need at PF as a shooting spot. If you had gotten you wish it would have been a disaster as it would not fit the needs of the team. Even if you thought the player was better if he wasn't going to be used correctly then what's the point.