Jazzfan1971 and FloppyMoose's Offseason Preview - 76ers

[HartfordWhalers]

Wow just realized the 6ers don't have anyone to play at SG other than McRae and the washedest up Jason Richardson (who'll probably end up being bought out yeah?). I don't mean to keep feeding the outrage at the Sixers tank or anything, but there's a team in the league that might end up starting Moultrie, McRae and Hollis Thompson

There really is no chance Moultrie starts much at all imo. Thad would for now, and if he is traded there is a good chance that either the trade nets a new starter or the team starts Noel and one of Sims/Varnado.

And there are certainly worse starters than Hollis in the league -- http://bkref.com/tiny/tq0ZV
He ended up one of the better rookies last year.

However the winner of the McDaniels, McRae or surprise third guy (Thad trade?) for one of the wing spots is definitely an unknown, and given that it is currently projected as a guy drafted at the top of the second round last summer, is clearly not a strength.

[majortom71]

Obviously Young is not Hinkie's guy because Hinkie did not draft him, trade for him or given him his contract. Fact is, Hinkie has not traded anyone who he has acquired himself yet, so I'm not feeling this farm team stuff. As he's also said, any player who is good is going to receive trade interest. You would be foolish not to at least listen.

Hinkie has pretty much never leaked information (Thad trade rumors have come mainly from Minnesota's end), so a lot of these trade rumours are just speculation.

The Holiday trade has been a massive success for the sixers value wise, Holiday is barely even an above average point guard and we got 3 first round picks and a 2nd rounder for him, so far.

And there is no evidence that MCW, Noel and Embiid aren't "their guys". Give me one good reason to believe that.

You have one good prospect currently playing (Noel), one who will miss the season (Embiid), and a decent young guy in MCW. The rest of the team is filled with D-league talent, honestly, farm team seems generous.

We got the guys with the highest ceilings in Noel and Embiid. The argument is that they are in the long term plan, which is true. If you want to call not worrying about filling up the "rest of the team" with mediocre veterans a "farm team", then go right ahead.

I believe the only player that is untouchable at the moment is Embiid, and that's due to his high ceiling of being a cornerstone franchise type player.

I think everyone else is fair game including Noel whom I personally like.

I am not saying they are bad or anything I'm saying for the right offer Hinkie will be ready to deal them.

I mean even ROY MCW was rumored to be traded if they decided on Exum in last year's draft. Of course Embiid slipped to them and that did not happen.


In that regards I kind of agree to the "farm team" comparison, however I think after this coming season they need to buckle down and set the foundation for the future team they want to build.

[QRich3]

Wow just realized the 6ers don't have anyone to play at SG other than McRae and the washedest up Jason Richardson (who'll probably end up being bought out yeah?). I don't mean to keep feeding the outrage at the Sixers tank or anything, but there's a team in the league that might end up starting Moultrie, McRae and Hollis Thompson

There really is no chance Moultrie starts much at all imo. Thad would for now, and if he is traded there is a good chance that either the trade nets a new starter or the team starts Noel and one of Sims/Varnado.

And there are certainly worse starters than Hollis in the league -- http://bkref.com/tiny/tq0ZV
He ended up one of the better rookies last year.

However the winner of the McDaniels, McRae or surprise third guy (Thad trade?) for one of the wing spots is definitely an unknown, and given that it is currently projected as a guy drafted at the top of the second round last summer, is clearly not a strength.

Yeah, I already got into this last season with other Sixers fans, and I wanna be careful cause I know a lot of you are touchy with the whole tanking subject. But I saw Hollis Thompson several times last year, with a special focus on him cause I was curious about this guy I never heard of being a starter. And I don't think he's an NBA rotation player in a normal team. Fringe rotation at best, like 9th/10th man on a team trying to make the playoffs or something, and I'm being optimistic. He can't handle the ball at all, not a specially good defender and not a specially clever guy on either end, with or without the ball. He can shoot ok if he's completely open, but he never stroke me as a great shooter (I'm actually surprised his % are this high).

Your comparison with Dudley is not really very flattering for Hollis, since Dudley was one of the worst players in the league period last year. And I'm a big fan of him and one of his last defenders on the Clippers forum. He had tendinitis on both knees, which led to him being slow and losing confidence, being afraid to shoot or pass, and losing the starting position to old man Barnes. By the end of the season he was out of the rotation completely.

Wow just realized the 6ers don't have anyone to play at SG other than McRae and the washedest up Jason Richardson (who'll probably end up being bought out yeah?). I don't mean to keep feeding the outrage at the Sixers tank or anything, but there's a team in the league that might end up starting Moultrie, McRae and Hollis Thompson

Tony Wroten can play the 2 also. I am keeping my fingers crossed Miami can swing a deal for Jason Richardson, as Miami needs a backup 2-guard.

Yeah but for whatever reason it seems Brown likes him more off the bench. He started James Anderson most of last year, who is clearly a worse player, and even tried with Elliot Williams when they traded Turner and Hawes and were short handed.

[HartfordWhalers]

Wow just realized the 6ers don't have anyone to play at SG other than McRae and the washedest up Jason Richardson (who'll probably end up being bought out yeah?). I don't mean to keep feeding the outrage at the Sixers tank or anything, but there's a team in the league that might end up starting Moultrie, McRae and Hollis Thompson

There really is no chance Moultrie starts much at all imo. Thad would for now, and if he is traded there is a good chance that either the trade nets a new starter or the team starts Noel and one of Sims/Varnado.

And there are certainly worse starters than Hollis in the league -- http://bkref.com/tiny/tq0ZV
He ended up one of the better rookies last year.

However the winner of the McDaniels, McRae or surprise third guy (Thad trade?) for one of the wing spots is definitely an unknown, and given that it is currently projected as a guy drafted at the top of the second round last summer, is clearly not a strength.

Yeah, I already got into this last season with other Sixers fans, and I wanna be careful cause I know a lot of you are touchy with the whole tanking subject. But I saw Hollis Thompson several times last year, with a special focus on him cause I was curious about this guy I never heard of being a starter. And I don't think he's an NBA rotation player in a normal team. Fringe rotation at best, like 9th/10th man on a team trying to make the playoffs or something, and I'm being optimistic. He can't handle the ball at all, not a specially good defender and not a specially clever guy on either end, with or without the ball. He can shoot ok if he's completely open, but he never stroke me as a great shooter (I'm actually surprised his % are this high).

Your comparison with Dudley is not really very flattering for Hollis, since Dudley was one of the worst players in the league period last year. And I'm a big fan of him and one of his last defenders on the Clippers forum. He had tendinitis on both knees, which led to him being slow and losing confidence, being afraid to shoot or pass, and losing the starting position to old man Barnes. By the end of the season he was out of the rotation completely.

Wow just realized the 6ers don't have anyone to play at SG other than McRae and the washedest up Jason Richardson (who'll probably end up being bought out yeah?). I don't mean to keep feeding the outrage at the Sixers tank or anything, but there's a team in the league that might end up starting Moultrie, McRae and Hollis Thompson

Tony Wroten can play the 2 also. I am keeping my fingers crossed Miami can swing a deal for Jason Richardson, as Miami needs a backup 2-guard.

Yeah but for whatever reason it seems Brown likes him more off the bench. He started James Anderson most of last year, who is clearly a worse player, and even tried with Elliot Williams when they traded Turner and Hawes and were short handed.

yeah, 9/10th man seems absurd, for a guy that hits 40% of his 3's and isn't a liability on the other end.

[QRich3]

It was a polite way of saying he shouldn't be in the league, let alone starting. Shooting 40% by itself doesn't say anything, if you don't do anything for your offense other than standing on the 3PT line and take 3s when you're open, you might shoot a high clip but not be helping your team (and that's pretty much what he does, isn't it?). And how can you say he's not a liability if your defense was considerably worse with him on the floor than off, and that's talking about one the worst defenses in the league already?

You should spend most of his minutes in playing McDaniels and Grant, who seem to have good potential to be solid rotation pieces, instead of him.

[jazzfan1971]

I appreciate the argument that it's just a tear down to the studs rebuild, but, for most teams in rebuild mode guys like Holiday, Hawes, Young, and Turner ARE studs. They are young veterans that you build upon for the future. It's not like these guys were grizzled old vets ready for retirement.

Holiday - 24
Hawes - 26
Young - 26
Turner - 25

Not to mention the way MCW was thrown on the trade block.

Philly is farming for themselves, so at some point they've got to transition from a focus on the guys they don't have to a focus on the guys they do have. Maybe it's all ready started, maybe they've traded off their last veteran with the rumored impending departure of Young. But, I honestly won't be surprised to see Noel on the trading block right along with MCW this season.

[Tony Franciosa]

Holiday - 24
Hawes - 26
Young - 26
Turner - 25

These guys pretty much maxed out their talents by this age though. They are what they are... Jrue could see a slight stats uptick with NO, if that core gets better, but I don't see much room for growth in any of them at this point. Turner will be lucky to be in the league in 2 years when he should be entering his prime.

We we right to cut ties with them vs getting caught up in signing mediocre players to bad contracts for long term just to "compete"

[LloydFree]

Holiday - 24
Hawes - 26
Young - 26
Turner - 25

These guys pretty much maxed out their talents by this age though. They are what they are... Jrue could see a slight stats uptick with NO, if that core gets better, but I don't see much room for growth in any of them at this point. Turner will be lucky to be in the league in 2 years when he should be entering his prime.

We we right to cut ties with them vs getting caught up in signing mediocre players to bad contracts for long term just to "compete"

You mean like "Studs" Gordon Hayward, Derrick Favors and soon to be Enes Kanter.

If you have players like that getting max contracts, I can see why Evan Turner and Spencer Hawes are also considered studs.

[jazzfan1971]

Exactly, a rebuilding team holds onto players like Hayward and Favors and 'builds' a team with them. (Kanter may or may not stick with the Jazz, but, that's more of a problem with his fit alongside Favors than wanting to move him for something younger.)

These are guys your PR department can put on billboards knowing that they can build some name recognition and loyalty there and not be worried that those guys are going to be moved when the wind changes. Guys you can be a fan of and buy a jersey and not worry that you'll look stupid in 6 months when your favorite player just got moved to some other city. They are 'their guys'.

[C_Money]

I'm still not seeing the future with this team. Noel and Embiid are both injury prone and MCW had inflated stats playing for a bad team.

They're going to be bad for a very very long time to come.

[shawn unkempt]

Interesting take but like the others I don't get a sense of a "farm team" from the Sixers. They dismantled a mediocre team and got some pretty good assets for them along the way.

I get the sense that Noel and Embiid are the building blocks going forward and neither will be traded unless they're skill sets don't mesh.

MCW could be dealt, but he's not exactly a stud you build a team around.

[floppymoose]

MCW is a jumpshot away from being full of muffinly studness. It might not happen but I like his chances.

[marcush]

I appreciate the argument that it's just a tear down to the studs rebuild, but, for most teams in rebuild mode guys like Holiday, Hawes, Young, and Turner ARE studs. They are young veterans that you build upon for the future. It's not like these guys were grizzled old vets ready for retirement.

Holiday - 24
Hawes - 26
Young - 26
Turner - 25

Not to mention the way MCW was thrown on the trade block.

Philly is farming for themselves, so at some point they've got to transition from a focus on the guys they don't have to a focus on the guys they do have. Maybe it's all ready started, maybe they've traded off their last veteran with the rumored impending departure of Young. But, I honestly won't be surprised to see Noel on the trading block right along with MCW this season.

Yeah, those guys aren't studs.

[HartfordWhalers]

I appreciate the argument that it's just a tear down to the studs rebuild, but, for most teams in rebuild mode guys like Holiday, Hawes, Young, and Turner ARE studs. They are young veterans that you build upon for the future. It's not like these guys were grizzled old vets ready for retirement.

Holiday - 24
Hawes - 26
Young - 26
Turner - 25

Not to mention the way MCW was thrown on the trade block.

Philly is farming for themselves, so at some point they've got to transition from a focus on the guys they don't have to a focus on the guys they do have. Maybe it's all ready started, maybe they've traded off their last veteran with the rumored impending departure of Young. But, I honestly won't be surprised to see Noel on the trading block right along with MCW this season.

Philly has been pretty clear, they don't want a decent team with those guys as the best players. They want a title contender and felt they needed an all nba type player to anchor it (and the draft was the way to get one).

As such, a tear it down all the way makes sense. Maybe the metaphor was wrong, and I should have said they wanted to go past the studs, and dig a whole new foundation, while most teams stop at the studs?

In terms of MCW being 'thrown on the trade market' I wouldn't assume he was. There was zero talk of him getting traded until the draft order was set and Orland was known to be targeting Payton, then suddenly it all leaks, then Philly holds up Orlando for a very favorable trade. So, I wouldn't keep clinging to the idea that he was thrust on the trade block cause supposedly Philly tried to get a top 8 pick for him when there is also a fair amount of evidence that there was something else going on.

[jazzfan1971]

Ok, he was thrown on the trade rumor block. That's undeniable.

[sixerswillrule]

You have one good prospect currently playing (Noel), one who will miss the season (Embiid), and a decent young guy in MCW. The rest of the team is filled with D-league talent, honestly, farm team seems generous.

We got the guys with the highest ceilings in Noel and Embiid. The argument is that they are in the long term plan, which is true. If you want to call not worrying about filling up the "rest of the team" with mediocre veterans a "farm team", then go right ahead.

I believe the only player that is untouchable at the moment is Embiid, and that's due to his high ceiling of being a cornerstone franchise type player.

I think everyone else is fair game including Noel whom I personally like.

I am not saying they are bad or anything I'm saying for the right offer Hinkie will be ready to deal them.

I mean even ROY MCW was rumored to be traded if they decided on Exum in last year's draft. Of course Embiid slipped to them and that did not happen.


In that regards I kind of agree to the "farm team" comparison, however I think after this coming season they need to buckle down and set the foundation for the future team they want to build.

How many teams out there have multiple players who are truly untouchable? The vast majority of the league are farm teams if that's the criteria. 99% of the players in the NBA should be considered tradeable if the right offer came along. That doesn't mean that we don't have our potential core already in place for the most part.

If you're calling us a farm team because we have few proven NBA caliber players, then whatever. I much prefer to give a shot to whatever young guys we can get our hands on rather than sign the Ben Gordons and Channing Fryes of the league.

[42uptop]

You should spend most of his minutes in playing McDaniels and Grant, who seem to have good potential to be solid rotation pieces, instead of him.

Yeah, let's bench a 40% 3 point shooter who provides valuable floor spacing for a guy in Jerami Grant who is a massive liability on that end of the floor. That makes sense.

And by the way, Tony Wroten is not a 2 guard nor has he ever shown any ability to play that position.

[marcush]

Ok, he was thrown on the trade rumor block. That's undeniable.

Weren't some of your guys on the block to try to trade up for Parker / Wiggins?

[42uptop]

Exactly, a rebuilding team holds onto players like Hayward and Favors and 'builds' a team with them. (Kanter may or may not stick with the Jazz, but, that's more of a problem with his fit alongside Favors than wanting to move him for something younger.)

These are guys your PR department can put on billboards knowing that they can build some name recognition and loyalty there and not be worried that those guys are going to be moved when the wind changes. Guys you can be a fan of and buy a jersey and not worry that you'll look stupid in 6 months when your favorite player just got moved to some other city. They are 'their guys'.

The people you listed were never Hinkie's guys, so it makes no sense to expect him to keep them around on big contracts. Turner and Hawes are just bad basketball players, Jrue is good but he plays a position that is very easy to find a replacement for, and Thad is still on our team. Those guys aren't nearly as good as what the Jazz had in Favors and Hayward. You are comparing two different situations and expecting things to be equivalent. I mean, if the Sixers PR guys put a bum like Evan Turner up on a billboard, it would be more motivation not to go to the games as far as I'm concerned.

[jazzfan1971]

I believe kanter was. Oh, there was talk of Favors but I dont believe that came from the Jazz.