The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime!

[Kjdills13]

suns- OJ mayo, Antetokounmpo Giannia

Bucks- Eric Bledsoe s&t, Archie Goodwin.

Night, Bledsoe, Parker Is a young fun team to watch that the Bucks could roll with.

Suns get back the great freak and OJ mayo a combo guard. Still give us a great 2 deap. at the guard positions and the greak freak is a high potential player

[letsgosuns]

suns- OJ mayo, Antetokounmpo Giannia

Bucks- Eric Bledsoe s&t, Archie Goodwin.

Night, Bledsoe, Parker Is a young fun team to watch that the Bucks could roll with.

Suns get back the great freak and OJ mayo a combo guard. Still give us a great 2 deap. at the guard positions and the greak freak is a high potential player

You want Bledose and Goodwin? Okay. Give the Suns back Jabari Parker. Because other than him, there is not one player on the Bucks I would even trade Archie Goodwin alone for. Just because Bledsoe and the Suns are in a contract dispute does not mean they are going to throw him away for a borderline mediocre player like O.J. Mayo and a completely unproven shooting guard, let alone add in a 19 year old athletic freak shooting guard in Goodwin.

[bwgood77]

I think we should sign Zoran, to help keep Goran around for a good # next year and trade Goodwin and Len for Mason Plumlee, and run the Brothers3 lineup.

Well we better hurry. I've never watched him. Is he a pg or a sg?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/505287103060914176[/tweet]

[Superbone]

Zoran is a pure SG.

[letsgosuns]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about Eric Bledsoe and I have decided I would up the offer for him. I know he got the same offer Kyle Lowry got, but if I had to choose between one of them, I would take Bledsoe every day of the week over Lowry. I watched Lowry in Houston and in Toronto and I think Bledsoe is already a better all around player, has far more potential, and is also nearly four years younger. I know Bledsoe is an injury risk, but a lot of players in league are unfortunately. Sometimes you have to take a chance and I think the Suns are confident enough about Bledsoe's health that he hopefully will be okay. Otherwise they would have not offered him so much money already.

The Suns do not have any big contracts at all. Increasing the offer up to 4/52 or even 4/56 is not going to be a big deal for the future cap space of the team. The reason I say that is because I believe Bledsoe is an all-star level talent and paying an all-star 14 million a year is pretty much what the going rate is. Plus you can always trade him if you do not want him. The Suns are so loaded with draft assets already and have so many young players, they need to keep Bledsoe. It also shows future free agents that the Suns are willing to pay out big money.

So I would be willing to give Bledsoe up to 14 million a year and then worry about Dragic's contract at a later time. I would much rather give Bledsoe more money than trade him for one of these horrendous offers that other teams are supposedly proposing. The Suns might be loaded at guard right now but Ennis is unproven, Dragic might leave regardless of what the Suns offer, and Green can leave after next year as well. They should lock up Bledsoe and that will keep them in the state they are in to potentially trade some of their depth at guard for a star player in the future. If they lose Bledsoe, they lose more than just his talent, they lose a ton of trade flexibility.

[blee732]

suns- OJ mayo, Antetokounmpo Giannia

Bucks- Eric Bledsoe s&t, Archie Goodwin.

Night, Bledsoe, Parker Is a young fun team to watch that the Bucks could roll with.

Suns get back the great freak and OJ mayo a combo guard. Still give us a great 2 deap. at the guard positions and the greak freak is a high potential player

You want Bledose and Goodwin? Okay. Give the Suns back Jabari Parker. Because other than him, there is not one player on the Bucks I would even trade Archie Goodwin alone for. Just because Bledsoe and the Suns are in a contract dispute does not mean they are going to throw him away for a borderline mediocre player like O.J. Mayo and a completely unproven shooting guard, let alone add in a 19 year old athletic freak shooting guard in Goodwin.

+1. Even taking out Archie that trade doesn't make much sense. Maybe Bledsoe for Giannis+Sanders feels better, might have to give up a lottery-protected pick too.

[Superbone]

suns- OJ mayo, Antetokounmpo Giannia

Bucks- Eric Bledsoe s&t, Archie Goodwin.

Night, Bledsoe, Parker Is a young fun team to watch that the Bucks could roll with.

Suns get back the great freak and OJ mayo a combo guard. Still give us a great 2 deap. at the guard positions and the greak freak is a high potential player

I would do this deal without hesitation but the Bucks wouldn't. Antetokounmpo is going to be something special.

[Kerrsed]

People on this board are really over-valuing our players. Bledsoe holds some value, but not as much as people think. For all the same reasons why we want to trade him, other teams are reluctant on what they are willing to give. I mean seriously. SERIOUSLY! The Greek Freak? Really? Why the hell would the Bucks give up on that kind of young talent? Just to overpay a injury riddled PG that seems to have common sense issues. Thats crazy.

Also, Goodwin holds value pretty much with us and us alone. McD drafted him for a reason, but 28 other teams decided to pass on him. He has shown a few flashes of potential, but not enough for another team to give up a guy like Antetokounmpo.

[Kerrsed]

The Suns do not have any big contracts at all. Increasing the offer up to 4/52 or even 4/56 is not going to be a big deal for the future cap space of the team.

Really? Not a big deal for the future capspace?

You do realize that Dragic will be looking for a new contract once the season is over, right? So will the Morris Twins.

We are already paying Thomas right around $6.5M per season. Now you want to give Bledsoe $14M per season. Dragic will be looking at a minimum of $12M. So now at the minimum you have over $32M invested in 3 PG's.

As for your stance on "we can always trade him", yeah....... what are the odds that he stays healthy? He has been in the league 4 years and has already had 2 knee operations. Thats one of the major reasons that teams weren't going after him in FA. Throw in another injury (this season or next) and his value drops through the floor. He is a very physical player and his game relies on athleticism, once that athleticism is gone, he is washed up. Then we are stuck paying $14M for him to ride the pine. Think Grant Hill in Orlando.

Look, i was/am a huge Bledsoe fan. I like his game and what he does on the court. Im a big fan of players that can play great on both sides of the court, but im not willing to jeopardize my franchise on hoping the kid will stay injury free and live up to his large contract. Thats what kills teams in the league.

[Superbone]

Also, Goodwin holds value pretty much with us and us alone. McD drafted him for a reason, but 28 other teams decided to pass on him. He has shown a few flashes of potential, but not enough for another team to give up a guy like Antetokounmpo.

Yeah, I was disappointed with his lack of progress this summer.

[bwgood77]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about Eric Bledsoe and I have decided I would up the offer for him. I know he got the same offer Kyle Lowry got, but if I had to choose between one of them, I would take Bledsoe every day of the week over Lowry. I watched Lowry in Houston and in Toronto and I think Bledsoe is already a better all around player, has far more potential, and is also nearly four years younger. I know Bledsoe is an injury risk, but a lot of players in league are unfortunately. Sometimes you have to take a chance and I think the Suns are confident enough about Bledsoe's health that he hopefully will be okay. Otherwise they would have not offered him so much money already.

The Suns do not have any big contracts at all. Increasing the offer up to 4/52 or even 4/56 is not going to be a big deal for the future cap space of the team. The reason I say that is because I believe Bledsoe is an all-star level talent and paying an all-star 14 million a year is pretty much what the going rate is. Plus you can always trade him if you do not want him. The Suns are so loaded with draft assets already and have so many young players, they need to keep Bledsoe. It also shows future free agents that the Suns are willing to pay out big money.

So I would be willing to give Bledsoe up to 14 million a year and then worry about Dragic's contract at a later time. I would much rather give Bledsoe more money than trade him for one of these horrendous offers that other teams are supposedly proposing. The Suns might be loaded at guard right now but Ennis is unproven, Dragic might leave regardless of what the Suns offer, and Green can leave after next year as well. They should lock up Bledsoe and that will keep them in the state they are in to potentially trade some of their depth at guard for a star player in the future. If they lose Bledsoe, they lose more than just his talent, they lose a ton of trade flexibility.

I think the end result will be in the range we are talking about. But we need to sit down with him and talk before just throwing it out there. If we throw it out there, Bledsoe's camp doesn't really have to take it and they can still demand the max and now we are in a worse bargaining position. If he thinks we won't up our offer and Sept 30th gets here, there is a 75% chance he will sit down and negotiate and we will go up to 52. If he still says max at that point and doesn't come off his stance, then we maybe go up to 4/56 or 5/70.

Turning down 70 million would be hard to swallow and there is NO chance he makes that much over the next five years if he takes the QO. He would have to make up over $66 million over the next four years and that will be almost impossible. The max contract he will be able to get next year will start somewhere around $15 million with 7% raises. He would HAVE to get a max to come close to breaking even.

It just makes zero financial sense to play for the QO offer especially when you could get injured and since there are only about 2-3 teams that need point guards and Rondo will also be a FA. I don't think the Lakers would give him a max since they are trying to create max space for the summer of 2016. That leaves Sacramento and Milwaukee. I'd say he would have the best chance of getting that max in Sacramento since Cousins is there. And maybe that's his plan for all we know. Maybe his agent already talked to them and they told him when Gay comes off the books next summer they will offer Bledsoe the max. In that case there is probably a good chance he will take the QO unless we give him the full max.

At the beginning of the summer I didn't really want to give him as much as 14 because I felt Dragic should make at least as much and that would probably mean a backcourt making $28 million. But that was before I realized that the cap will likely go up significantly in 2016 and those contracts could be pretty good ones and we could still possibly add another premier player that summer.

[LukasBMW]

People on this board are really over-valuing our players. Bledsoe holds some value, but not as much as people think. For all the same reasons why we want to trade him, other teams are reluctant on what they are willing to give. I mean seriously. SERIOUSLY! The Greek Freak? Really? Why the hell would the Bucks give up on that kind of young talent? Just to overpay a injury riddled PG that seems to have common sense issues. Thats crazy.

Also, Goodwin holds value pretty much with us and us alone. McD drafted him for a reason, but 28 other teams decided to pass on him. He has shown a few flashes of potential, but not enough for another team to give up a guy like Antetokounmpo.

+1

Archie is barley worth a second round pick on the open market. That's why we won't trade him. Past organizations may have let other SAVVY teams strong arm them into including him in a trade as a throw in, but I think our current management knows better. If we do trade Archie, it's because we gave up on him.

Bledsoe's injury history is whats keeping both us and other teams from a max. As someone said before, no team wants to max Bledsoe AND give up assets. Except maybe the Lakers.

[carey]

Have y'all seen what Kieff and Marcus look like right now? They went hard this Summer.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MookMorris2/status/505433568445595648[/tweet]

[RunDogGun]

Are they wearing girls pants?

[Kerrsed]

They look the same to me.

[Saberestar]

Then we are stuck paying $14M for him to ride the pine. Think Grant Hill in Orlando.

Look, i was/am a huge Bledsoe fan. I like his game and what he does on the court. Im a big fan of players that can play great on both sides of the court, but im not willing to jeopardize my franchise on hoping the kid will stay injury free and live up to his large contract. Thats what kills teams in the league.

So...$48/4 years is a good and fair contract and $56/4 years we will jeopardize our franchise???
Come on...that $2M more per year would be better to sign important players like Tolliver or Shavlik Randolph...
Seriously, Bledsoe is better than Lowry, Lawson, Holiday...etc...he deserves something around $65M/5 years or $56M/4 years and it would not be overpaying. We have to pay to have a good team, if not we will always have only prospects and cheap players that sometimes exceed expectations (like Tucker or Plumlee).
Every player can have an injury at any moment(think Paul George, healthy like very few players until last month) and he is only 24, so his health is not a big deal right now.

If we raise the offer and he says NO, then we will have made all the possible and this is it....but we need to try it at least.
Hopefully we will hear about an slightly better offer in the next few weeks.

[letsgosuns]

The Suns do not have any big contracts at all. Increasing the offer up to 4/52 or even 4/56 is not going to be a big deal for the future cap space of the team.

Really? Not a big deal for the future capspace?

You do realize that Dragic will be looking for a new contract once the season is over, right? So will the Morris Twins.

We are already paying Thomas right around $6.5M per season. Now you want to give Bledsoe $14M per season. Dragic will be looking at a minimum of $12M. So now at the minimum you have over $32M invested in 3 PG's.

As for your stance on "we can always trade him", yeah....... what are the odds that he stays healthy? He has been in the league 4 years and has already had 2 knee operations. Thats one of the major reasons that teams weren't going after him in FA. Throw in another injury (this season or next) and his value drops through the floor. He is a very physical player and his game relies on athleticism, once that athleticism is gone, he is washed up. Then we are stuck paying $14M for him to ride the pine. Think Grant Hill in Orlando.

Look, i was/am a huge Bledsoe fan. I like his game and what he does on the court. Im a big fan of players that can play great on both sides of the court, but im not willing to jeopardize my franchise on hoping the kid will stay injury free and live up to his large contract. Thats what kills teams in the league.

I agree with everything you are saying 100%. I was thinking about how the cap is supposed to increase dramatically in the next couple of years as well. I really do not want to lose Bledsoe if all it takes is adding one or two million a year more to his deal. I would not touch that 5 year 85 max he wants, but i would give him 14 a year. I also am not sold on Isaiah Thomas like some other fans are. All players today are overpaid and I think losing Bledsoe is going to be hard for the Suns. I do think McDonough is going to do whatever he feels his best for the team though and I have full confidence in him way more than any GM the Suns have had in a very long time.

[snowthedirtbub]

Anyone have a stream for the Mercury game?

[RunDogGun]

There is no reason to up our offer. If they haven't come to the table there is no need to make extra portions.

Bledsoe has a simple choice, either take the fair offer, or play for the QO with a ton of risks. At this point I don't care. I like most of his game, and when he wants to, he can be a great defender.

After that, all we need is MkMo to step up as a starter, and we should be a pretty deep and solid team.

[Jdiddy701]

Markieff and Marcus back working out in Phoenix. Expect contract extension soon!!! Well hopefully.


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