Martell Webster has back surgery -- OUT 3-5 months

[TGW]

I still don't hold the Webster signing against EG. At the time, I don't think it was foreseeable that Ariza would become such a ridiculously good shooter. We were essentially platooning Webster and Ariza based on our need for offense or defense. Both guys were pretty critical. Yeah, in hindsight, Webster looks pretty expendable, but that wasn't the case when he signed his contract.

Completely disagree. Ariza's performance didn't need to be forseeable. The fact you had Ariza under contract and just spent a 3rd pick on another SF should have been enough reason not to sign Webster to a MLE sized contract for 4 years.

Giving EG a pass because you would have done the same thing... lol. Lots of people strongly argued against his resigning last offseason.

Well I disagree that the addition of Porter made Webster expendable.

Of course drafting Porter made Webster expendable. You just used a #3 overall pick on him...conventional wisdom would suggest that if you already have a starting small forward in Ariza, and you draft a young player (with a lottery pick) to develop behind your starter, you don't spend a ton of coin resigning the backup small forward. Now you've created a logjam and you don't give an opporunity to your young guy to step up. It was a bad signing at the time and plenty of people were saying that. There's no hindsight there.

[dckingsfan]

Signing him was the right move when they did it and I fully supported the idea.

Shamsprots: Ten Of The Worst New Contracts This Offseason
2013-09-30
Martell Webster – Washington Wizards

"There is a lot to like about Webster. Universally acknowledged as a nice guy, and coming off of a career year while still only 26 years old, Webster is a useful role player who betters any team he is on, slightly. He proved to be a great fit alongside John Wall and Bradley Beal last season, and should be a decent contributor on the Wizards’s upcoming playoff push.

However, this is all tempered by the price at which he signed. There’s a lot to like about Webster at the one year, $1.75 million contract he signed last year, or the two years and $6.5 million the highly comparable Mike Dunleavy Jr. received this summer from Chicago. There is a lot less to like about the four years and $22 million Webster instead received, particularly in light of his backup caliber play (irrespective of whether he starts for Washington or not) and significant injury history. Even if his contract were to be based purely off of the immediately preceding season’s play – an inherently flawed premise which is all too easy to default to – it is still too much.

Webster hits 40 percent of his three pointers if someone else sets them up for him, and makes few mistakes, but is mediocre at all other facets of the game. You need more for more than $5 million per. Any team would take Webster at the right price, but no one should take him at this one."

Basically - it was another horrible EG signing - and this isn't 20/20 hindsight analysis. What was EG's other signing? Yep, Maynor - it is really hard to be that bad.

[TGW]

Signing him was the right move when they did it and I fully supported the idea.

[Dat2U]

Completely disagree. Ariza's performance didn't need to be forseeable. The fact you had Ariza under contract and just spent a 3rd pick on another SF should have been enough reason not to sign Webster to a MLE sized contract for 4 years.

Giving EG a pass because you would have done the same thing... lol. Lots of people strongly argued against his resigning last offseason.

Well I disagree that the addition of Porter made Webster expendable.

Of course drafting Porter made Webster expendable. You just used a #3 overall pick on him...conventional wisdom would suggest that if you already have a starting small forward in Ariza, and you draft a young player (with a lottery pick) to develop behind your starter, you don't spend a ton of coin resigning the backup small forward. Now you've created a logjam and you don't give an opporunity to your young guy to step up. It was a bad signing at the time and plenty of people were saying that. There's no hindsight there.

Yeah I seriously question the logic that says its okay to throw millions and guaranteed years at the same position where you've just spent the 3rd pick of the draft.

It was a bad decision then and looks even worse now.

Too follow it up by spending up to $35-40 million to keep Ariza goes beyond what should be considered stupid. Your basically giving up on Porter before he even had a chance, dooming him to bench status for the foorseable future and we'd likely have over $80 million locked into three guys at the least important position on our roster.

I'm surprised and honestly dissapointed at how many knowledgeable fans supported Webster's deal last year AND resigning Ariza this year knowing how poor an allocation of resources this is.

[hands11]

Completely disagree. Ariza's performance didn't need to be forseeable. The fact you had Ariza under contract and just spent a 3rd pick on another SF should have been enough reason not to sign Webster to a MLE sized contract for 4 years.

Giving EG a pass because you would have done the same thing... lol. Lots of people strongly argued against his resigning last offseason.

Well I disagree that the addition of Porter made Webster expendable.

Of course drafting Porter made Webster expendable. You just used a #3 overall pick on him...conventional wisdom would suggest that if you already have a starting small forward in Ariza, and you draft a young player (with a lottery pick) to develop behind your starter, you don't spend a ton of coin resigning the backup small forward. Now you've created a logjam and you don't give an opporunity to your young guy to step up. It was a bad signing at the time and plenty of people were saying that. There's no hindsight there.

As many times as this has been gone over, how are you ignoring the sequence off events and the big picture.

TA is a UFA this year.

Otto was drafted as BPA to replace him in the future if TA leaves, if not a sign and trade.

Webster was a core piece the year before that helped change the entire team culture. A leader in the locker room and a glue personality to the team. And without Webster this last year, they probably don't make the playoffs and Beal doesn't get that late season surge of production and playoff experience. Same with Wall.

Everything you need to know is all laid out in front of us going into this FA period. That's why they signed him after drafting Porter. And all that winning and playoff experience should help us resign Trevor A and Gortat.

With all that in front of us, its still probably best to sign Trevor A because of lots of factors. For one, we can get something for him then. Two, Webster is now hurt to start the year. Three, Otto will be basically playing his rookie year and they want to start strong and make the playoffs again.

I wanted them to sign Webster because it was the right move then and it was still the right move today. Its has benefited them tons.

[dckingsfan]

emotion vs. logic

great chemistry guy vs. oft-injured player that gets MLE for 4 years

Gooden was a great chemistry guy, Harrington was a great chemistry guy - they didn't cost the MLE for 4 years.

And then signing a contract where you don't exercises your rights (back gets reinjured and contract is voided), more emotion than logic.

Bad contract then - worse contract now - his tones are killing our cap space.

[Kanyewest]

Completely disagree. Ariza's performance didn't need to be forseeable. The fact you had Ariza under contract and just spent a 3rd pick on another SF should have been enough reason not to sign Webster to a MLE sized contract for 4 years.

Giving EG a pass because you would have done the same thing... lol. Lots of people strongly argued against his resigning last offseason.

Well I disagree that the addition of Porter made Webster expendable.

Of course drafting Porter made Webster expendable. You just used a #3 overall pick on him...conventional wisdom would suggest that if you already have a starting small forward in Ariza, and you draft a young player (with a lottery pick) to develop behind your starter, you don't spend a ton of coin resigning the backup small forward. Now you've created a logjam and you don't give an opporunity to your young guy to step up. It was a bad signing at the time and plenty of people were saying that. There's no hindsight there.

I'm sorry. I agree to disagree with this. I don't care if Porter was the #3 pick. People are getting too caught up that Porter was the #3 pick rather than the fact that the 2013 may be a historically weak draft. How many guys in the 2013 draft would have gone in the top 10 in the 2014 draft. He wasn't ready, he also got injured, and he shot 19% from 3. He has shown flashes but he has a LONG way to go. hope that it works out for Porter in the long run but he only shown flashes at the end of the regular season. I wouldn't call him a bust yet, I believe he is willing to put in the hard work.

The big thing that makes Webster expendable now is that Ariza has become a 40% 3 point shooter and he's an elite defender. But even so, Ariza's price tag may be too high to keep irregardless of the fact that the Wizards already have Porter and Webster. If Ariza gets offered $9 million per year, he is not worth keeping anyways.

[TGW]

Well I disagree that the addition of Porter made Webster expendable.

Of course drafting Porter made Webster expendable. You just used a #3 overall pick on him...conventional wisdom would suggest that if you already have a starting small forward in Ariza, and you draft a young player (with a lottery pick) to develop behind your starter, you don't spend a ton of coin resigning the backup small forward. Now you've created a logjam and you don't give an opporunity to your young guy to step up. It was a bad signing at the time and plenty of people were saying that. There's no hindsight there.

I'm sorry. I agree to disagree with this. I don't care if Porter was the #3 pick. People are getting too caught up that Porter was the #3 pick rather than the fact that the 2013 may be a historically weak draft. How many guys in the 2013 draft would have gone in the top 10 in the 2014 draft. He wasn't ready, he also got injured, and he shot 19% from 3. He has shown flashes but he has a LONG way to go. hope that it works out for Porter in the long run but he only shown flashes at the end of the regular season. I wouldn't call him a bust yet, I believe he is willing to put in the hard work.

The big thing that makes Webster expendable now is that Ariza has become a 40% 3 point shooter and he's an elite defender. But even so, Ariza's price tag may be too high to keep irregardless of the fact that the Wizards already have Porter and Webster. If Ariza gets offered $9 million per year, he is not worth keeping anyways.

Fine Kanye, what the hell was the point in drafting another small forward if the pick was useless trash and Porter wasn't worth picking in a real draft? Why not draft Noel and hope he gets healthy, or draft Len and hope he pans, or try and trade up for Oladipo, etc.? Why pick Porter if he was going to rot on the bench?

If the plan is to roll with Ariza and Webster, then use your draft picks to address other needs. Either way, there was a failure in determining who BPA was, and who BPA according to our needs.

[Kanyewest]

Of course drafting Porter made Webster expendable. You just used a #3 overall pick on him...conventional wisdom would suggest that if you already have a starting small forward in Ariza, and you draft a young player (with a lottery pick) to develop behind your starter, you don't spend a ton of coin resigning the backup small forward. Now you've created a logjam and you don't give an opporunity to your young guy to step up. It was a bad signing at the time and plenty of people were saying that. There's no hindsight there.

I'm sorry. I agree to disagree with this. I don't care if Porter was the #3 pick. People are getting too caught up that Porter was the #3 pick rather than the fact that the 2013 may be a historically weak draft. How many guys in the 2013 draft would have gone in the top 10 in the 2014 draft. He wasn't ready, he also got injured, and he shot 19% from 3. He has shown flashes but he has a LONG way to go. hope that it works out for Porter in the long run but he only shown flashes at the end of the regular season. I wouldn't call him a bust yet, I believe he is willing to put in the hard work.

The big thing that makes Webster expendable now is that Ariza has become a 40% 3 point shooter and he's an elite defender. But even so, Ariza's price tag may be too high to keep irregardless of the fact that the Wizards already have Porter and Webster. If Ariza gets offered $9 million per year, he is not worth keeping anyways.

Fine Kanye, what the hell was the point in drafting another small forward if the pick was useless trash and Porter wasn't worth picking in a real draft? Why not draft Noel and hope he gets healthy, or draft Len and hope he pans, or try and trade up for Oladipo, etc.?

If the plan is to roll with Ariza and Webster, then use your draft picks to address other needs. Either way, there was a failure in determining who BPA was, and who BPA according to our needs.

Or they should have taken Burke and avoided the whole Eric Maynor thing. MCW would have been the right pick but I don't even think the 76ers would have taken him at #3.

Len hasn't shown much when he has played. Noel's injury concerns were a red flag going in hence the reason that 6 teams passed on him. The Wizards still would have been in a position to make the 1st for Gortat trade irregardless of those picks.

The point in drafting Porter is that the team evaluated him to be a good player. So far their evaluation has been wrong but so far the 2013 draft has looked like a crapshoot. You could argue that the 11-21 picks had more value than the top 10 picks.

[TGW]

A total crapshoot, huh?

Just wondering...do you think the Spurs would have picked the right guy at #3 in the 2013 draft? Just curious.

[rockymac52]

A lot of hoopla is being made of Webster's 4th year 180 games trigger. Let me clarify. The reported 180 games in the preceding 3 years thing is correct, HOWEVER, if it doesn't reach that threshold, he's still partially guaranteed in that 4th year - for $2.5 million to be exact. So really not that big of a savings if he misses enough games and we need to clear cap space in his 4th year.

Also, someone (maybe Nate?) said Ernie put this provision into the contract specifically because of Webster's back. Maybe that was his reasoning, but if that's the case, he went about it incredibly poorly. There is a contract provision known as Exhibit 3 which deals with Prior Injuries. It allows the team to specify a certain prior injury (in this case, Martell's back - I'm not a doctor so I can't get any more specific than that), and if that player re-aggravates that specific injury, then the team is allowed to waive the player without having to pay him another dollar. That contract exhibit exists solely for situations like these, and yet Ernie didn't use it. I believe Martell's agent is Dan Fegan. If so, kudos to Fegan for out-negotiating Ernie in this regard.

Where did you see the $2.5M part? ShamSports says the final year is fully unguaranteed if certain conditions are met.

You're gonna just have to trust me on this one. But I am 100% sure. 100.

[Kanyewest]

A total crapshoot, huh?

Just wondering...do you think the Spurs would have picked the right guy at #3 in the 2013 draft? Just curious.

Trick question right? Spurs don't get top 10 picks anymore. And no I don't think the Spurs would have taken MCW, Giannis Antetokounmpo, or Steven Adams at #3. Although they might have had the foresight to trade down.

[AFM]

Per the WT, Webster intends to retire at the end of his contract...

[closg00]

Per the WT, Webster intends to retire at the end of his contract...

Do you think Gilbert will high-five Webster? "Ernie Grunfeld, hell-yeah!"

[hands11]

3 Year Farewell tour.

Interesting to have a player announce this so early.

But it is the right decision for him if he wants a quality of life after basketball.

3 Years later..Webster will have more rings then LeBron

Lets get it done boys.

[payitforward]

3 Year Farewell tour.

Interesting to have a player announce this so early.

But it is the right decision for him if he wants a quality of life after basketball.

3 Years later..Webster will have more rings then LeBron

Lets get it done boys.

Don't know about the rings, but Martell is going to have a great media career. Smart, articulate, funny -- just seems like a great guy.

[hands11]

3 Year Farewell tour.

Interesting to have a player announce this so early.

But it is the right decision for him if he wants a quality of life after basketball.

3 Years later..Webster will have more rings then LeBron

Lets get it done boys.

Don't know about the rings, but Martell is going to have a great media career. Smart, articulate, funny -- just seems like a great guy.

I do feel for the dude. In the last month i have tweaked my back twice now and Im currently in the middle of the 2nd time. It sucks.

My is isolated to just above my pant line above my left side of my lower back. Last time it took about 3 days to start getting better and 4-5 days to go away. Im in day 4 and its not progressing as nicely this time. Starting to worry me because I have to travel tomorrow.

Once this clears up, Im going to get busy on a rehab or strengthening it again. Mostly its probably just me not working out like I used to. Probably should get an X Ray as well just to make sure everything is ok.

[fishercob]

A lot of hoopla is being made of Webster's 4th year 180 games trigger. Let me clarify. The reported 180 games in the preceding 3 years thing is correct, HOWEVER, if it doesn't reach that threshold, he's still partially guaranteed in that 4th year - for $2.5 million to be exact. So really not that big of a savings if he misses enough games and we need to clear cap space in his 4th year.

Also, someone (maybe Nate?) said Ernie put this provision into the contract specifically because of Webster's back. Maybe that was his reasoning, but if that's the case, he went about it incredibly poorly. There is a contract provision known as Exhibit 3 which deals with Prior Injuries. It allows the team to specify a certain prior injury (in this case, Martell's back - I'm not a doctor so I can't get any more specific than that), and if that player re-aggravates that specific injury, then the team is allowed to waive the player without having to pay him another dollar. That contract exhibit exists solely for situations like these, and yet Ernie didn't use it. I believe Martell's agent is Dan Fegan. If so, kudos to Fegan for out-negotiating Ernie in this regard.

Where did you see the $2.5M part? ShamSports says the final year is fully unguaranteed if certain conditions are met.

You're gonna just have to trust me on this one. But I am 100% sure. 100.

Ladies and gentleman, we have have a board member with some access. Kudos on this scoop, rockymac52. Shamsports now indeed reflects the $2.5M guarantee in the final year. I don't think it was ever reported in the press as such when Webster signed.

[fishercob]

Webster back in the lineup 12/21 or 12/23.

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... ason-debut

The best way for the Wizards to put him to use is to have him take Seraphin's minutes. Use Gortat/Hump/Nene/Pierce at the 4 and 5 and Beal/Otto/Webster/Butler at the 2/3.

Looking forward to welcoming Mart3ll back.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Webster back in the lineup 12/21 or 12/23.

http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... ason-debut

The best way for the Wizards to put him to use is to have him take Seraphin's minutes. Use Gortat/Hump/Nene/Pierce at the 4 and 5 and Beal/Otto/Webster/Butler at the 2/3.

Looking forward to welcoming Mart3ll back.

Great news, I had missed Webster. Hopefully he can get back to his old self with relative ease.