Lowe: Time To Start Investing Some Real 4Q Minutes In JV

OvertimeNO · Post #21 » by **OvertimeNO** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:06 pm

It's been one month. Eastern teams that are projected to be good still haven't showed up, and our strength of competition isn't exactly tops league-wide.

I'd rather wait until the All-Star break before proclaiming that we've got enough of a "cushion" to "afford" to do anything.

Yeah, it would be great if JV gets reps in to prep for hypothetical playoff matchups that may or may not happen. But it'd also be great to secure as high a playoff seed as possible and make our lives a bit easier on ourselves in the Spring. What's the difference between JV getting reps in now, and him maybe getting reps in a couple of months from now, when we've hopefully stomped a permanent mudhole in the Eastern conference?

ATLTimekeeper · Post #22 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:08 pm

Scarface844 wrote:Regardless of which side you stand on, I don't think anyone's in a position to question Casey right now. We're 13-2.

Lowe is essentially questioning the value of that record if it means that the Raptors' younger players will lack experience when the games matter most. It's a perfectly acceptable stance.

sunny · Post #23 » by **sunny** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:09 pm

the myth of Chuck's defence ----

Considering that Jonas and Chuck were subbed only on behalf of eachother and Chuck played with the raptors top defensive unit - the numbers are pretty clear. In the Memphis game, Jonas played far better D than Chuck.
Just because the raptors one with Chuck doesn't somehow make the D any better.

defensive rating for the game: Jonas = 104, Chuck = 112

BangerBrotha · Post #24 » by **BangerBrotha** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:10 pm

Scarface844 wrote:Regardless of which side you stand on, I don't think anyone's in a position to question Casey right now. We're 13-2.

Why? Every coach and player should always be subject to criticism. No coach or player is ever perfect. Casey has been very good for the most part. But there is always things that he can improve on. Agree the last two games, Jonas should have sat. However, for this team to succeed in the long-term, Jonas has to play some minutes in the 4th and learn from mistakes.

I also remembered you were pressing for his firing throughout all of last season. Why the sudden 180 degree change?

m83588333 · Post #25 » by **m83588333** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:11 pm

BangerBrotha wrote:
Scarface844 wrote:Regardless of which side you stand on, I don't think anyone's in a position to question Casey right now. We're 13-2.

Why? Every coach and player should always be subject to criticism. No coach or player is ever perfect. Casey has been very good for the most part. But there is always things that he can improve on. Agree the last two games, Jonas should have sat. However, for this team to succeed in the long-term, Jonas has to play some minutes.

I also remembered you were pressing for his firing throughout all of last season. Why the sudden 180 degree change?

Casey is Mark Jackson. Stupid lineups and rotations and WTF moments. Kerr has GSW looking unstoppable.

Scarface844 · Post #26 » by **Scarface844** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:11 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ekoreen/status/538015696379473921[/tweet]

wow09 · Post #27 » by **wow09** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:11 pm

When you're winning you don't change anything. And you don't let up for the sake of experimenting. This is stupid.

We are the best 4th Q team in the league and Casey is a big reason why. Let him do his thing. JV is still young he's coming along well let things ride out as they may.

Post #28 » by **TheDoctor** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:12 pm

JV has earned 4th quarter minutes in the past couple of games. But situationally against these last two teams (and possibly Dallas too), shifting to guard 3s made more sense.

And the Memphis game, Hayes ended up awesome, so Casey for the win again.

It's a long season and JV will find himself on the floor in some important situations when it makes sense. I'm not concerned.

Scarface844 · Post #29 » by **Scarface844** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:12 pm

m83588333 wrote:Casey is Mark Jackson. Stupid lineups and rotations and WTF moments. Kerr has GSW looking unstoppable.

Mark Jackson couldn't get that Warriors team to have a top 10 offense. Casey has us at #2. We're the best 4th quarter team in the league. We have the most double digit comeback wins.

youngtea · Post #30 » by **youngtea** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:13 pm

vini_vidi_vici wrote:In 4th Qs.

Team while JV is on the court ORTG 123.4 DRTG 108.4 NetRTG +15
Team while JV is off the court ORTG 108.8 DRTG 92.4 NetRTG +16.4

DC loves his defense, we knew that upon hiring him.

Did you know the 4 highest total mins guys in 4ths this year are in order
LW/GV/JJ/PP

Does anyone think mins =/= development?

Im indifferent either way, I dont think its inhibiting his development, nor do I think playing more mins is going to drastically uptick it. Hes going to get his mins/usg/etc.. and going to be a very good player for likely 4 more years (at the very least, pending no trades/etc..) in a Raps uni.

Well done bro.

Someone get this guy a job on the Raptors.

Scarface844 · Post #31 » by **Scarface844** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:13 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ekoreen/status/538015696379473921[/tweet]

MEDIC · Post #32 » by **MEDIC** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:13 pm

Darknemo2000 wrote:
cram wrote:Casey is doing a fine job developing these guys. Let's let JV earn his minutes in the 4th. He can get there, but needs to play better defensively.

Before you guys annoint Zach Lowe and his girlfriend (Koreen) the coach of the Raptors, take a look at how many of our games have been won in the 4th quarter....often with strong defense and the helter skelter opportunities on offense that come from it.

Winning is development for JV as well, even if he's winning from the bench.

Stop with this **** of earning minutes. Just stop. He had 27 pts and 12 rebounds in a game against Suns. If that doesnt earn you some minutes in the 4th then what does? He certainly played better than others of the starters and yet ended up rotting on the bench.

It's not about offense.

TheDoctor wrote:It's a long season and JV will find himself on the floor in some important situations when it makes sense. I'm not concerned.

Agree with this.

hankscorpioLA · Post #33 » by **hankscorpioLA** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:13 pm

I will start to worry about this around the All-Star break.

m83588333 · Post #34 » by **m83588333** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:15 pm

TheDoctor wrote:JV has earned 4th quarter minutes in the past couple of games. But situationally against these last two teams (and possibly Dallas too), shifting to guard 3s made more sense.

And the Memphis game, Hayes ended up awesome, so Casey for the win again.

It's a long season and JV will find himself on the floor in some important situations when it makes sense. I'm not concerned.

Hayes in Memphis makes complete sense but against the Suns and Hawks its stupid. Casey doesn't change anything for different teams. When TH comes back he will play ahead of Hayes against Memphis or Charlotte.

Scarface844 · Post #35 » by **Scarface844** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:16 pm

BangerBrotha wrote:Why? Every coach and player should always be subject to criticism. No coach or player is ever perfect. Casey has been very good for the most part. But there is always things that he can improve on. Agree the last two games, Jonas should have sat. However, for this team to succeed in the long-term, Jonas has to play some minutes in the 4th and learn from mistakes.

I also remembered you were pressing for his firing throughout all of last season. Why the sudden 180 degree change?

I was reactionary. I got caught up in the realgm hate for Casey and didn't bother to do my own research/use my own eyes. I didn't call for his firing but I wasn't opposed to him being replaced in the off season (early in the season).

Towards the end of the season and in the playoffs, I warmed up to him and realized people on here were just hating because their favorite player wasn't getting touches/playing time.

rarefind · Post #36 » by **rarefind** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:21 pm

I don't buy it. Ultimately, if Casey doesn't feel comfortable with JV down the stretch then that is reason enough to bench him. While I do not agree with the logic that he is a liability defensively, but Casey's minutes management has this team at 13-2. For the time being, there isn't a single reason to question that. To say we have banked wins in November is bit to premature in all actuality. If that means Chuck or Amir is the best bet, then you roll with that for the time being. JV will get 4th quarter burn soon enough, he isn't going to wither away and die in November because he didn't play in the 4th due to matchups.

i will agree with the notion of he needs to be closing games though by some point this year, he has the potential to be a top 5 C in the game. Players like that do not sit on the bench down the stretch. And btw, earning minutes down the stretch goes beyond scoring 27 and 12 boards. A focus to defense and stopping guys like Gasol is paramount. Quite frankly, this team doesn't beat Memphis without what Chuck contributed in the fourth. Winning>Everything at this moment. Should we start giving Bruno minutes to develop him quicker while we are at sacrificing wins for experience?

Lateral Quicks · Post #37 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:24 pm

I do think JV deserves a longer leash. That said, Case has this team at 13-2. There's not a whole lot of room for criticism there. As soon as JV improves his defense sufficiently (which I'm confident he will), we'll see him out there regularly in crunch time.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #38 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:24 pm

On a side note, was listening to the radio earlier and it's amazing to hear how the media thinks JV has regressed this year when all this numbers are up across the board. He gets fewer minutes because there's an extra damned person in the rotation.

The debate itself is just going to go nowhere.

sunny · Post #39 » by **sunny** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:25 pm

youngtea wrote:
vini_vidi_vici wrote:In 4th Qs.

Team while JV is on the court ORTG 123.4 DRTG 108.4 NetRTG +15
Team while JV is off the court ORTG 108.8 DRTG 92.4 NetRTG +16.4

DC loves his defense, we knew that upon hiring him.

Did you know the 4 highest total mins guys in 4ths this year are in order
LW/GV/JJ/PP

Does anyone think mins =/= development?

Im indifferent either way, I dont think its inhibiting his development, nor do I think playing more mins is going to drastically uptick it. Hes going to get his mins/usg/etc.. and going to be a very good player for likely 4 more years (at the very least, pending no trades/etc..) in a Raps uni.

Well done bro.

Someone get this guy a job on the Raptors.

these numbers are absolutely meaningless as Jonas has only played 33 minutes in the fourth quarter.
Even if you want to use them, Chuck who has played significantly more than Jonas in the 4th has far worse stats.

Flight33 · Post #40 » by **Flight33** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:27 pm

We've been the best 4th quarter team in the NBA since the Rudy Gay trade. Now people want to question was Casey is doing because of what Zach Lowe said?

Thanks, but no thanks, let's keep it how it is. Maybe later on in the season if the Raptors have the Atlantic wrapped up, or the #1 seed wrapped up, then you can start doing experiments.