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Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1721 » by Brenice » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:53 am

Dat2U wrote:
hands11 wrote:And since the Dray signing was under Abe, I give it less weight then I do moves made under Ted. And for the record, Dray had talent. Ted had lots of Abe trash to clean up. Biggest was Gilbert's worst in the league contract and they did that pretty effectively by getting a one year shorter 2nd worst in the league contract. I wouldn't have dreamed someone would touch Gils contract but they got it done. That was HUGE. Not only for the cap and accelerating the rebuild, but to get him the hell out of here. That one move doesn't get nearly enough credit. The trickle down is hard to capture in all the effects it had.

Thank God ORL had the GM they did and we had the front office we had. :wink:


Why do you keep trying to rewrite history? The 'Baltche' extension was under Ted. Remember the "new big three" Blatche, Wall & Crawford?


Nobody is saying Ernie has made all the right moves, but right now the wizards are 19 and 6 and tied the best start in franchise history and can set a new mark tomorrow. Who built the 2014 team?
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1722 » by hands11 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:04 pm

Brenice wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
hands11 wrote:And since the Dray signing was under Abe, I give it less weight then I do moves made under Ted. And for the record, Dray had talent. Ted had lots of Abe trash to clean up. Biggest was Gilbert's worst in the league contract and they did that pretty effectively by getting a one year shorter 2nd worst in the league contract. I wouldn't have dreamed someone would touch Gils contract but they got it done. That was HUGE. Not only for the cap and accelerating the rebuild, but to get him the hell out of here. That one move doesn't get nearly enough credit. The trickle down is hard to capture in all the effects it had.

Thank God ORL had the GM they did and we had the front office we had. :wink:


Why do you keep trying to rewrite history? The 'Baltche' extension was under Ted. Remember the "new big three" Blatche, Wall & Crawford?


Nobody is saying Ernie has made all the right moves, but right now the wizards are 19 and 6 and tied the best start in franchise history and can set a new mark tomorrow. Who built the 2014 team?


Yeah. My bad on that one. Dray was signed in Sept 2010 a few month after Ted was owner. Had a memory lapse there. The rest of what I wrote was true though. Besides, the way they fronted the contract was a decent move, and Dray was talented. He was just mental like Gil. Removing Gil gave them a chance to rehab Dray but ultimately that didn't work out. Personally, I didn't want them to amnesty him but instead use him off the bench which if I recall, they would have been able to do because of injuries. After that, they could have traded him and got something or amnestied him later. But that would have had other ripple effects I'm sure. So what was that, 2010. Interesting. Maybe they won more that year and not 't get the #6 pick. LOL. But ultimately Ted wanted to clean house and bit the bullet to have a cleaner slate to build from.

DAT, stop with the rewriting history BS propaganda. If anyone is trying to rewrite history its you. Me, I made a small honest mistake and can admit it. Not a big deal. It changes very little in the rest of what I wrote happened.

Brenice.. I have to honestly wonder if there are some people here who would rather they lose tonight because for this team to break the all time franchise record for best start to a season....that wouldn't support their wrongful speculation of what was going on the last 4 years and how things where supposed turn out. I mean team players like Paul and Wall are opening talking about shooting for the title game this year already as their goal. Now they might now get there, but they are opening saying that is the goal. Its been a long time since we have heard anything like that.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1723 » by Brenice » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:52 pm

hands11 wrote:Brenice.. I have to honestly wonder if there are some people here who would rather lose tonight because for this team to break the all time franchise record for best start to a season....that wouldn't support their wrongful speculation of what was going on the last 4 years and how things where supposed turn out. I mean team players like Paul and Gil are opening talking about shooting for the title game this year already as their goal. Now they might now get there, but they are opening saying that is the goal. Its been a long time since we have heard anything like that.


It's shameful that they holding onto the past. The flesh is ugly. Their spirit wants to enjoy the successes of the team Ernie constructed but their flesh don't want to give Ernie any credit because of their own pride.

The thing about it, it looks like the team will be successful for a few years more. Ernie aint going nowhere for a while. They changed the culture. They have potentially the best PG in the world. They got potentially the best backcourt in the world. They changed their image within the NBA from when no free agents considered Washington culminating with Michael Jordan publicly recommending Abe sell his team. Now the Pierce's of the world sign, which is a great luxury only contenders enjoy.

Respect is growing. The Wizards still are'nt rated like they should be. The league overrates the Bulls at our expense, after we whipped that ass in the last playoffs. So we got 2 big games coming up. Phoenix today to give us our best start ever, and the Bulls Tuesday so we can send the league a message and gain more league-wide respect.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1724 » by hands11 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:11 pm

Brenice wrote:
hands11 wrote:Brenice.. I have to honestly wonder if there are some people here who would rather lose tonight because for this team to break the all time franchise record for best start to a season....that wouldn't support their wrongful speculation of what was going on the last 4 years and how things where supposed turn out. I mean team players like Paul and Gil are opening talking about shooting for the title game this year already as their goal. Now they might now get there, but they are opening saying that is the goal. Its been a long time since we have heard anything like that.


It's shameful that they holding onto the past. The flesh is ugly. Their spirit wants to enjoy the successes of the team Ernie constructed but their flesh don't want to give Ernie any credit because of their own pride.

The thing about it, it looks like the team will be successful for a few years more. Ernie aint going nowhere for a while. They changed the culture. They have potentially the best PG in the world. They got potentially the best backcourt in the world. They changed their image within the NBA from when no free agents considered Washington culminating with Michael Jordan publicly recommending Abe sell his team. Now the Pierce's of the world sign, which is a great luxury only contenders enjoy.

Respect is growing. The Wizards still are'nt rated like they should be. The league overrates the Bulls at our expense, after we whipped that ass in the last playoffs. So we got 2 big games coming up. Phoenix today to give us our best start ever, and the Bulls Tuesday so we can send the league a message and gain more league-wide respect.


Two huge games. I agree.

Then the West schedule soon after that. If we lose to many, the board will likely get trolled. But to get to 50 wins, we can actually lose every one of the West coast swing games and still get there. Its just at this stage of the game, mid to high 50s are in their grasp and to do that along with keeping the higher expectations for post season in view, we want to win some of those game. And we won't these next two. That would be HUGE. One lower range West team for Eastern prop and franchise record and one against our rivals in Chicago who we are competing against for top team in the East.

It could be bumpy here soon. But if they come out of that solid these next two game and the West swing, that will make the team even more legit right now.

Yeah, I could see several 50 win seasons on the horizons. And its been my position that they have been trimming back and investing to focus on the core pieces that are most important. And if they are legit, it opens a nice big 8-10 year window. When we look back, Teds ownership of the team is going to be a clear delineating point. And as time goes on, it will be common practice to talk about EG before Ted and EG after. And as that happens, its going to be hard to do that without looking at Abe's rules starting with Wes in the front office/coach and until he passed on.

Even Randy will slowly get viewed as before the Wizards with Ted and after. That's given he continues to mature as a game time HC.

We are very likely watching the rebirth of a franchise that was once very good in the 70s and wondered in the dessert for 40 years. No way that happens without Ted and EG getting their props.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1725 » by Kanyewest » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Dat2U wrote:Why do you keep trying to rewrite history? The 'Baltche' extension was under Ted. Remember the "new big three" Blatche, Wall & Crawford?


Interesting, I don't remember Crawford being part of the big 3 conversations. I remember plenty of people here hyping up Young/McGee/Blatche though.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1726 » by Brenice » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:30 pm

hands11 wrote:
Then the West schedule soon after that. If we lose to many, the board will likely get trolled. But to get to 50 wins, we can actually lose every one of the West coast swing games and still get there. Its just at this stage of the game, mid to high 50s are in their grasp and to do that along with keeping the higher expectations for post season in view, we want to win some of those game. And we won't these next two. That would be HUGE. One lower range West team for Eastern prop and franchise record and one against our rivals in Chicago who we are competing against for top team in the East.


I think the Wizards will fare well out west. They fared well last year. They need to get Beal on track, but we match up and can hold our own with anybody.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1727 » by montestewart » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:04 pm

Kanyewest wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Why do you keep trying to rewrite history? The 'Baltche' extension was under Ted. Remember the "new big three" Blatche, Wall & Crawford?


Interesting, I don't remember Crawford being part of the big 3 conversations. I remember plenty of people here hyping up Young/McGee/Blatche though.

The Ted's Take blog page has apparently been removed (no surprise, I would have done the same thing) but here's a Post article memorializing it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... _blog.html
As silly as that pronouncement sounded, I thought of it at the time (and still do) as more marketing than delusion. You have to sell the fans something until you have a winner.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1728 » by Nivek » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:48 am

I know you guys who adore Ernie think you're somehow enjoying this season more than folks who are less enthralled with him. At least for me, I think it would be difficult for that to be the case. I've been a fan since 1978. I've lived through The Suck, and found ways to enjoy crap seasons too.

They're probably going to win 50-55 games this season (with a shot at 60), and have a better than zero chance of reaching the Finals in a craptacular conference.

I can analyze the team and the league and the conference and see a number of reasons why things have fallen into place for the team, while remaining thoroughly unconvinced that Grunfeld is much good at his job. But that doesn't detract one bit from my enjoyment of the games. Not even a little.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1729 » by montestewart » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:09 am

Nivek wrote:I know you guys who adore Ernie think you're somehow enjoying this season more than folks who are less enthralled with him. At least for me, I think it would be difficult for that to be the case. I've been a fan since 1978. I've live through The Suck, and found ways to enjoy crap seasons too.

They're probably going to win 50-55 games this season (with a shot at 60), and have a better than zero chance of reaching the Finals in a craptacular conference.

I can analyze the team and the league and the conference and see a number of reasons why things have fallen into place for the team, while remaining thoroughly unconvinced that Grunfeld is much good at his job. But that doesn't detract one bit from my enjoyment of the games. Not even a little.

YES! MY MAN!

I would take it a step further. While I'm far from an EG fan, I have no particular stake in EG being God or a shriveled pea pod. I don't really have to convince anyone of anything, don't care who thinks they're right or wrong, and don't care who convinces others of the same. I follow the talent, the W-L record, the final result. The thrill of victory, the agony of dehands. If the team's winning, I don't care who is the coach, GM, or owner (well, some owners, maybe not).

That's right, I am enjoying it more.

PS: Tonight's game in no way dampens my enthusiasm. They are still tied for the best record after 26 games in franchise history. They still have Wall, they still have a very deep team.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1730 » by dandridge 10 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:44 am

montestewart wrote:
Nivek wrote:I know you guys who adore Ernie think you're somehow enjoying this season more than folks who are less enthralled with him. At least for me, I think it would be difficult for that to be the case. I've been a fan since 1978. I've live through The Suck, and found ways to enjoy crap seasons too.

They're probably going to win 50-55 games this season (with a shot at 60), and have a better than zero chance of reaching the Finals in a craptacular conference.

I can analyze the team and the league and the conference and see a number of reasons why things have fallen into place for the team, while remaining thoroughly unconvinced that Grunfeld is much good at his job. But that doesn't detract one bit from my enjoyment of the games. Not even a little.

YES! MY MAN!

I would take it a step further. While I'm far from an EG fan, I have no particular stake in EG being God or a shriveled pea pod. I don't really have to convince anyone of anything, don't care who thinks they're right or wrong, and don't care who convinces others of the same. I follow the talent, the W-L record, the final result. The thrill of victory, the agony of dehands. If the team's winning, I don't care who is the coach, GM, or owner (well, some owners, maybe not).

That's right, I am enjoying it more.

PS: Tonight's game in no way dampens my enthusiasm. They are still tied for the best record after 26 games in franchise history. They still have Wall, they still have a very deep team.


+2. I am not an EG fan at all and I think his overall record with the Wizards speaks for itself as for what kind of GM he has been with the Wizards. However, I also have no problem giving him some props for last year and so far this year. Perhaps he learned from some of his mistakes in years past. Perhaps he was just very very lucky. Perhaps Abe held him back. I really don't care. If the Wizards continue to play like they have lately and are in the position to be contenders year after year, I'll be a happy camper. I'll even be happy to admit I was wrong about Ernie.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1731 » by TGW » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:43 am

Quite frankly, anyone who thinks you can't root for the team while wanting the general manager gone is an idiot. Especially when that GM has a track record of being incompetent.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1732 » by Dat2U » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:30 pm

hands11 wrote:
Brenice wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Why do you keep trying to rewrite history? The 'Baltche' extension was under Ted. Remember the "new big three" Blatche, Wall & Crawford?


Nobody is saying Ernie has made all the right moves, but right now the wizards are 19 and 6 and tied the best start in franchise history and can set a new mark tomorrow. Who built the 2014 team?


Yeah. My bad on that one. Dray was signed in Sept 2010 a few month after Ted was owner. Had a memory lapse there. The rest of what I wrote was true though. Besides, the way they fronted the contract was a decent move, and Dray was talented. He was just mental like Gil. Removing Gil gave them a chance to rehab Dray but ultimately that didn't work out. Personally, I didn't want them to amnesty him but instead use him off the bench which if I recall, they would have been able to do because of injuries. After that, they could have traded him and got something or amnestied him later. But that would have had other ripple effects I'm sure. So what was that, 2010. Interesting. Maybe they won more that year and not 't get the #6 pick. LOL. But ultimately Ted wanted to clean house and bit the bullet to have a cleaner slate to build from.

DAT, stop with the rewriting history BS propaganda. If anyone is trying to rewrite history its you. Me, I made a small honest mistake and can admit it. Not a big deal. It changes very little in the rest of what I wrote happened.

Brenice.. I have to honestly wonder if there are some people here who would rather they lose tonight because for this team to break the all time franchise record for best start to a season....that wouldn't support their wrongful speculation of what was going on the last 4 years and how things where supposed turn out. I mean team players like Paul and Gil are opening talking about shooting for the title game this year already as their goal. Now they might now get there, but they are opening saying that is the goal. Its been a long time since we have heard anything like that.


:nonono: How low can you go?
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1733 » by tontoz » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:48 pm

I have to honestly wonder if there are some people here who would rather they lose tonight because for this team to break the all time franchise record for best start to a season


Setting aside the stupidity of this comment, i think it is time to rejoice.

HANDS SPELLED LOSE CORRECTLY!!!!
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1734 » by TGW » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:23 pm

tontoz wrote:
I have to honestly wonder if there are some people here who would rather they lose tonight because for this team to break the all time franchise record for best start to a season


Setting aside the stupidity of this comment, i think it is time to rejoice.

HANDS SPELLED LOSE CORRECTLY!!!!


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Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1735 » by Brenice » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:59 pm

TGW wrote:Quite frankly, anyone who thinks you can't root for the team while wanting the general manager gone is an idiot. Especially when that GM has a track record of being incompetent.


Then what will it take for Ernie to be fired?
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1736 » by TGW » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:06 pm

Brenice wrote:
TGW wrote:Quite frankly, anyone who thinks you can't root for the team while wanting the general manager gone is an idiot. Especially when that GM has a track record of being incompetent.


Then what will it take for Ernie to be fired?


I have no clue...that guy has nine lives.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1737 » by Brenice » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:45 pm

TGW wrote:
Brenice wrote:
TGW wrote:Quite frankly, anyone who thinks you can't root for the team while wanting the general manager gone is an idiot. Especially when that GM has a track record of being incompetent.


Then what will it take for Ernie to be fired?


I have no clue...that guy has nine lives.


I do agree with that. He came along at the right time. Abe was old and didn't want to re-build the team, instead Abe wanted to add vets (Foye and Miller) to make 1 last run with Gil; Gun-gate(he snitched which led to getting rid of 1-legged Gil and his contract); Won the lottery and drafted Wall; Abe passing and Ted taking over also bought Ernie time as Ted didn't want to make change GM at that time.

But then things started to turn around and the Wizards had a enjoyable season last year and got their playoff feet wet. Things are looking better this year than last! All of these phenomena's bought Ernie more and more time.

Which brings me to my point. Ernie and the Wizards have shown improvement under Ted. There really shouldn't be 2 sides of the Ernie argument. But the Ernie hater side is non-compromising, even though the Wizards are winning. What should have been done years ago ain't being done now.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1738 » by dobrojim » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:07 am

Totally agree with Kev and BobbyD. I love that the team is really good this year.
(and I go even further back...I remember first watching this team when The Pearl
was a rookie).

But ask yourselves this, what religious indoctrination did you go through in
order to have such a completely faith-based belief that this would happen given
the Wiz had the 3rd worst record over his tenure with the Wizards until last year
(or maybe even into this year)?

Or do you believe GM performance is simply ruled by chaos and that given
time, records will even out? ie he was bound to do better.

There was virtually no rational basis to expect Ernie would do as well in
this past offseason as he has done. I'm both very happy for this turn of events
but also quite stunned.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1739 » by hands11 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:31 am

dobrojim wrote:Totally agree with Kev and BobbyD. I love that the team is really good this year.
(and I go even further back...I remember first watching this team when The Pearl
was a rookie).

But ask yourselves this, what religious indoctrination did you go through in
order to have such a completely faith-based belief that this would happen given
the Wiz had the 3rd worst record over his tenure with the Wizards until last year
(or maybe even into this year)?

Or do you believe GM performance is simply ruled by chaos and that given
time, records will even out? ie he was bound to do better.

There was virtually no rational basis to expect Ernie would do as well in
this past offseason as he has done
. I'm both very happy for this turn of events
but also quite stunned.


Sure, if you ignore all the rational basis that have been laid out before it even happened, chronicled while it was happening and reflected on after it happened. Then thats 100% true.
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Re: Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong 

Post#1740 » by dckingsfan » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:43 am

hands11 wrote:
dobrojim wrote:Totally agree with Kev and BobbyD. I love that the team is really good this year.
(and I go even further back...I remember first watching this team when The Pearl
was a rookie).

But ask yourselves this, what religious indoctrination did you go through in
order to have such a completely faith-based belief that this would happen given
the Wiz had the 3rd worst record over his tenure with the Wizards until last year
(or maybe even into this year)?

Or do you believe GM performance is simply ruled by chaos and that given
time, records will even out? ie he was bound to do better.

There was virtually no rational basis to expect Ernie would do as well in
this past offseason as he has done
. I'm both very happy for this turn of events
but also quite stunned.


Sure, if you ignore all the rational basis that have been laid out before it even happened, chronicled while it was happening and reflected on after it happened. Then thats 100% true.


I think what he is saying is that if you take his body of work over all the teams where he is has been the GM, all his draft picks, if you look at his overall record - it is a surprise. And given time - reverting to the mean, he will figure out a way to screw it up... unless Ted keeps him on a very tight leash.

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