Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

[Revived]

Who on that list would we have a legitimate shot at? Millsap? He isn't that much better than Keef. Green would excel here but I hear GSW will pay whatever it takes to keep him. Jordan isn't needed with Len. Hmmm.

You would think no one and I know this is silly and far from happening, but take a look at the Blazers. They have Lillard/Batum locked up as essential pieces for their roster next year, everyone else is a free agent. Can they afford keeping Aldridge/Wes/Lopez and bring back surrounding pieces to give them a legitimate title shot? Maybe (most likely, lol).
Who knows if Aldridge/Mathews remain loyal to the Blazers organization. Maybe they want a change of scenery. Maybe they don't like Lillard. Maybe Mathews wants to be coached by Hornacek and Aldridge follows. I'm just saying, with such a trade of Morris bros/IT for Love, even if Love takes off it opens up different opportunities for us. We would still have good core pieces of Bledsoe/Len/Tucker (and a crap load of potential).
I'm mostly worried we stand pat, we are 9th again, we sign Dragic/Wright over the offseason and we are still fighting for an 8th seed the following season. At that point, our only chance of improving is internal growth from our young guys because all of our money is already tied up.

That's my worry as well. We end up like the Denver Nuggets stuck in mediocrity.

I want Dragic back still no matter what but I don't know if committing a significant amount of cap space to the core of Kieff, Marcus, IT, Tucker, Bledsoe and Dragic is a great idea when the core together hasn't shown they can be even a "for sure playoff team".

I want Goran back but I would like to see us make moves to clear up cap space so we can make other moves through free agency and maintain flexibility.

[bwgood77]

Damn I have been in meetings all day and finally after getting out of them first went to look at espn, saw that insider article, posted my comment on it how ludicrous it was and came here to see if it has been discussed, and it appears it has been extensively discussed. And I actually like Love, but that is ridiculous.

[Jdiddy701]

edited

[SSOL]

Jdiddy, what was it?

[Jdiddy701]

Jdiddy, what was it?

Pretend you didn't see anything. It was nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Revived]

Jdiddy, what was it?

Pretend you didn't see anything. It was nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Now I really want to know.

[JDLAW]

Some here worry needlessly about cap/flexibility. The structure of the CBA gives a team considerable flexibility to add talent even if the team is over the cap - so long as they are under the luxury tax threshold. Two of the worst places to be are just under the cap and just under the lux tax threshold. The rules for team in those positions decrease flexibility considerably. If you are talking about an outright signing of a Prime Free Agent (e.g. Durant, Westbrook, James, Davis), those contracts are so large, you're going to have to clear approximately $20-25M under the salary cap depending on the year and the target. To do that, you are going to have to move your own mid-range to high paid players if you can or you are going to have to have exquisite timing to have expiring contracts come due when these players become available and a willingness to let your own free agents walk while you compete. The downside is you and up shut out and scraping to put together the pieces after losing players you might want to keep. The Suns experienced this to a small extent with Frye who was on hold while we chased LBJ. Could have happened with Bledsoe, but was prevented because of his RFA status. Could happen with Dragic this offseason is he is ignored. Moreover, there just aren't that many of prime free agents that can turn a mid-tier team into a contender. There is only a handful of these transcendent players - James, Durant, Davis, Harden, Curry(?), Griffin(?) - in the league. Love is not one of them, neither is Howard, Aldridge, Kobe, Mello. These players are almost never available.

Players like Love, are very good (all stars), but not transcendent because they lack something in their personality or their game something that keeps them at a level lower. I have watched Love over the past couple of years and if the Suns were to acquire him and make him the centerpiece of the team, it would be a huge mistake. Set his stats aside, they are not important. If the Suns were to acquire him while keeping their core of Dragic, Len. Kieff and Bledsoe, his touches would be about the same as they are in Cleveland. If you want 25 and 12 from him on 80+ touches a game, you are going to be mediocre at best. much like Minny. If you can acquire him for a low cost, you do so, but you keep your core and do not worry don't worry about his stats.

[batsmasher]

KLove's decline in stats doesn't say much. All his resume currently consists of is putting up good numbers on a sub .500 team. What we do know is he thinks he's a max player and is yet to play any defense in his entire career. 2 years straight he's been bottom 5 in rim protection. How the heck is that worth a max? Trade for Love only if you like shooting yourself in the foot.

That's my worry as well. We end up like the Denver Nuggets stuck in mediocrity.

There is absolutely no way a team with this many assets and a smart GM will turn out mediocre. This is the one year where being the ninth seed really isn't that big of a deal.

[thamadkant]

I like Kevin Love...

But, I recall a year a bit ago when he was putting up 30/20 games multiple times in a week, people were comparing him to Charles Barkley.

I laughed... loud.


Kevin Love is a heck of a scorer and a very good rebounder.
But Charles Barkley is a better scorer and as good, if not better rebounder.

Defense wise, both are NOT good, but Charles Barkley was slightly better.

I'm saying that because, of the article about Bledsoe/Len for Love...
A prime Charles Barkley, I would do that trade....

But for Kevin Love?.... hmm, I'm not sure. At the very least I would wait 2-3 years to see how good Len really turns out. If he is just a good center, maybe I'll bite, but I'd ask for additional asset(s). But if Len turns out to be very good, as in borderline all-star... I will most likely say no.... Let's not forget Bledsoe is also in that trade scenario.


It comes down to this.

Would I trade Dikembe Mutombo and Chris Jackson (Mahmoud Abdul-Raud) for prime Charles Barkley?
Depends HIGHLY on my team, but I think that's not far off value wise.

I'm saying that because, Len and Bledsoe for Love, is sort of like that... but obviously Mutombo > Len by a lot, I mean Mutombo was the epitome of defensive specialist center.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Some here worry needlessly about cap/flexibility. The structure of the CBA gives a team considerable flexibility to add talent even if the team is over the cap - so long as they are under the luxury tax threshold. Two of the worst places to be are just under the cap and just under the lux tax threshold. The rules for team in those positions decrease flexibility considerably. If you are talking about an outright signing of a Prime Free Agent (e.g. Durant, Westbrook, James, Davis), those contracts are so large, you're going to have to clear approximately $20-25M under the salary cap depending on the year and the target. To do that, you are going to have to move your own mid-range to high paid players if you can or you are going to have to have exquisite timing to have expiring contracts come due when these players become available and a willingness to let your own free agents walk while you compete. The downside is you and up shut out and scraping to put together the pieces after losing players you might want to keep. The Suns experienced this to a small extent with Frye who was on hold while we chased LBJ. Could have happened with Bledsoe, but was prevented because of his RFA status. Could happen with Dragic this offseason is he is ignored. Moreover, there just aren't that many of prime free agents that can turn a mid-tier team into a contender. There is only a handful of these transcendent players - James, Durant, Davis, Harden, Curry(?), Griffin(?) - in the league. Love is not one of them, neither is Howard, Aldridge, Kobe, Mello. These players are almost never available.

Players like Love, are very good (all stars), but not transcendent because they lack something in their personality or their game something that keeps them at a level lower. I have watched Love over the past couple of years and if the Suns were to acquire him and make him the centerpiece of the team, it would be a huge mistake. Set his stats aside, they are not important. If the Suns were to acquire him while keeping their core of Dragic, Len. Kieff and Bledsoe, his touches would be about the same as they are in Cleveland. If you want 25 and 12 from him on 80+ touches a game, you are going to be mediocre at best. much like Minny. If you can acquire him for a low cost, you do so, but you keep your core and do not worry don't worry about his stats.

very well said and I agree with most of it. Where my opinion differs is I do think love is a great "fit" for our team and would be willing to part with keif to get him. He would fill the fry role on the two man pick and roll with Goran so well. He's also a good rebounder and that's something you want with a shot blocker like len since shot blockers often find themselves out of position to rebound. It would also open up more pure post touches for len that are currently going to keif.

I completely agree that true game changers rarely if ever are available via free agency. I think you need one to truly chase a championship. So what are the suns to do? I'm not really in favor of tanking every year until they get lucky enough to draft one. So with that said I'd be OK taking a gamble on a flawed guy like love and hoping he is a perfect fit for the system.

Heck I say this and I don't really like love all that much but he's probably the best that's actually available.

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Sunsdeuce]

Some here worry needlessly about cap/flexibility. The structure of the CBA gives a team considerable flexibility to add talent even if the team is over the cap - so long as they are under the luxury tax threshold. Two of the worst places to be are just under the cap and just under the lux tax threshold. The rules for team in those positions decrease flexibility considerably. If you are talking about an outright signing of a Prime Free Agent (e.g. Durant, Westbrook, James, Davis), those contracts are so large, you're going to have to clear approximately $20-25M under the salary cap depending on the year and the target. To do that, you are going to have to move your own mid-range to high paid players if you can or you are going to have to have exquisite timing to have expiring contracts come due when these players become available and a willingness to let your own free agents walk while you compete. The downside is you and up shut out and scraping to put together the pieces after losing players you might want to keep. The Suns experienced this to a small extent with Frye who was on hold while we chased LBJ. Could have happened with Bledsoe, but was prevented because of his RFA status. Could happen with Dragic this offseason is he is ignored. Moreover, there just aren't that many of prime free agents that can turn a mid-tier team into a contender. There is only a handful of these transcendent players - James, Durant, Davis, Harden, Curry(?), Griffin(?) - in the league. Love is not one of them, neither is Howard, Aldridge, Kobe, Mello. These players are almost never available.

Players like Love, are very good (all stars), but not transcendent because they lack something in their personality or their game something that keeps them at a level lower. I have watched Love over the past couple of years and if the Suns were to acquire him and make him the centerpiece of the team, it would be a huge mistake. Set his stats aside, they are not important. If the Suns were to acquire him while keeping their core of Dragic, Len. Kieff and Bledsoe, his touches would be about the same as they are in Cleveland. If you want 25 and 12 from him on 80+ touches a game, you are going to be mediocre at best. much like Minny. If you can acquire him for a low cost, you do so, but you keep your core and do not worry don't worry about his stats.

very well said and I agree with most of it. Where my opinion differs is I do think love is a great "fit" for our team and would be willing to part with keif to get him. He would fill the fry role on the two man pick and roll with Goran so well. He's also a good rebounder and that's something you want with a shot blocker like len since shot blockers often find themselves out of position to rebound. It would also open up more pure post touches for len that are currently going to keif.

I completely agree that true game changers rarely if ever are available via free agency. I think you need one to truly chase a championship. So what are the suns to do? I'm not really in favor of tanking every year until they get lucky enough to draft one. So with that said I'd be OK taking a gamble on a flawed guy like love and hoping he is a perfect fit for the system.

Heck I say this and I don't really like love all that much but he's probably the best that's actually available.

Sent from my SM-G900V using RealGM Forums mobile app

Great post. Everything you said is true and realistic. Thumbs up!

[Revived]

There is absolutely no way a team with this many assets and a smart GM will turn out mediocre. This is the one year where being the ninth seed really isn't that big of a deal.

How so?

And remember when the Nuggets had all those assets from the Melo trade?

Wilson Chandler, Timofey Mozgov, Nene, Danillo Galinarri, the bunch of draft picks they got from NYK among others.

[batsmasher]

There is absolutely no way a team with this many assets and a smart GM will turn out mediocre. This is the one year where being the ninth seed really isn't that big of a deal.

How so?

And remember when the Nuggets had all those assets from the Melo trade?

Wilson Chandler, Timofey Mozgov, Nene, Danillo Galinarri, the bunch of draft picks they got from NYK among others.

We are bleeding assets at the moment. We will probably get the Lakers' pick over the next two years. 9th seed at least means this team gets some more experience in big games with playoff ramifications. I don't see any downside.

As for Denver, things were looking pretty damn good until Masai left. 57 wins and on the up. McD is still here

[WeekapaugGroove]

Denver.... who knows what happens if Galos knee doesn't fall off. Might have a different view of that rebuild after melo if that doesn't happen.

Luck plays a part in any teams fortune's . Suns have assets. Will they use them correctly? That's the million dollar question. Nothing mcd has done so far gives me doubt he will make the right moves.. hope I'm right.

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[Kerrsed]

Taking the Phoenix Suns to the Next Level

By Jabari Davis 01/16/2015


With significantly higher expectations this season following Coach Hornacek’s surprisingly successful initial campaign as a head coach, the Phoenix Suns find themselves in a battle to remain within the playoff picture in an ever-so-tough Western Conference. At 23-18 and currently in what would be the eighth seed, the Suns have relied heavily upon a high-energy and fast-paced, but balanced attack that has been strong enough to at least compete with opponents on most nights.

The million-dollar question around the Valley of the Sun is whether they will use some of their backcourt and swingman depth in order to at least attempt to not only place more distance between themselves and other teams in pursuit of what will eventually be the final playoff spot (the Nuggets are 3.5 games back, but the New Orleans Pelicans trail Phoenix by just one game in the loss column and the Oklahoma City Thunder are lurking close by as well), but also propel this scrappy bunch into a realistic discussion with some of the West’s stronger competition? It’s one thing to beat or compete with a team that’s in the midst of three games in four nights in January, but an entirely different proposition when evaluating whether the Suns are strong enough to beat some of the West’s ‘elite’ in a seven-game series.

While teams are scrambling to make moves in order to bolster their respective rosters, the Suns are one of the few playoff contenders with several movable pieces if they so chose to go that route.

Many of us were at least intrigued by GM Ryan McDonough’s plans when he decided to not only sign Isaiah Thomas this summer, but also retain Eric Bledsoe even after drafting rookie point guard Tyler Ennis. There may have been rumblings about soon-to-be free agent Goran Dragic (who has a player option for 2015-16) just prior to the draft, but here we are at the actual midway point in the season for much of the league, and the Suns still have at least four legitimate lead guards on the roster even if Bledsoe (16.4 PPG, 6.0 APG, 5.2 RPG) has shown an ability to play off the ball just as effectively.

This may sound like a good problem to have as a head coach, as we highly doubt Coach Hornacek will complain about such a luxury; that said, it doesn’t do you much good to have so much depth at one particular position when the roster and rotation could use upgrades in other areas. The truth is, while everyone loves an underdog or feel-good story as these Suns have been, they probably still are not strong enough to beat teams like the Warriors, Grizzlies or Blazers. In reality, while 10-12 against the conference, these Suns have only managed to muster a 4-8 record vs. teams currently in the West’s playoff picture thus far this season.

The recent addition of small forward Reggie Bullock was another peculiar move given the roster composition as well as the current rotation. Gerald Green really seemed to finally find his place in the league during last year’s 48-win blitz from a team that had been expected to be lottery-bound, but finds himself in a somewhat diminished role in this year’s rotation due to the aforementioned roster redundancy. After posting career-high numbers, although still playing well, Green’s productivity has dipped along with his playing time (21.7 minutes compared to 28.4 last season).

With Green coming up on unrestricted free agency this summer, the presence of swingmen (generally shooting guards and small forwards) like P.J. Tucker, Bullock, Archie Goodwin, TJ Warren, Dragic’s brother Zoran could mean the 28-year-old isn’t in McDonough’s future plans. Each of those other players have either recently signed extensions or are locked into what are CBA-friendly rookie contracts for at least another season.

Dragic (16.7 PPG, 3.9 APG) has the opportunity and is expected to opt-out of his current contract following this season. Even though the market will dictate his eventual value, the 2013-14 Most Improved Player award winner will likely seek a deal somewhere between $12-15 million per season as that seems to be the going rate for lead guards at this stage. Of course, the Suns could always re-sign him at his desired rate, but the lengthy deals they signed with Bledsoe and Thomas at least open the door to allocate the cap space toward other needs.

Although you certainly wouldn’t want to mortgage any future opportunities for success by giving up too many assets in a mid-season deal that wouldn’t necessarily guarantee anything this year, these Suns may be in a prime position to pursue a player they were widely-reported to have been interested in last offseason.

No one knows how the Kevin Love experience in Cleveland will ultimately end, but one thing that is certain is it hasn’t gone nearly as well as anyone within that franchise would have liked. Love appears to be (at best) uncomfortable and even out-of-sorts at times. While Love may not be the perfect fit within Cleveland’s offensive sets, he’s as close to tailor-made for Hornacek’s system as you can be at the power forward position. He’s still able to stretch the floor as well Phoenix’s current crop of versatile bigs, and although clearly not the best defender (either), Love will still snatch double-digit rebounds on a nightly basis.

Would McDonough consider attempting to package Dragic and Green in an effort to lure the Cavs into a deal for Love if things simply cannot be worked out? Obviously, as with any hypothetical question or trade, you ask under the assumption of proposed variables, but this really isn’t a stretch to at least contemplate.

The Cavs are clearly in a “win now, at all costs” mindset with LeBron James’ potential free agency after this summer (opt-out clause) and next, and may find themselves in a position of having to survey their options. At that point, the key would seemingly be in McDonough finding a way to convince a West Coast native why life in the Phoenix area and most importantly with the Suns’ organization would be the best choice for what will likely be the prime years of the 26-year-old’s career.

Again, as this is merely a hypothetical idea, who knows if Love even becomes available or if the organization would still covet his services? The point is, if the Suns want to truly step into the conversation in a conference that doesn’t appear to be tapering off anytime soon, these are the types of deals they should be considering. The depth and roster flexibility are great, but you have to be willing to sacrifice some of it if the opportunity to significantly bolster your lineup presents itself. It will be fun to see what type of creativity McDonough shows with all these young assets in the coming years.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/takin ... ext-level/

[sunsfever68]

Taking the Phoenix Suns to the Next Level

By Jabari Davis 01/16/2015


With significantly higher expectations this season following Coach Hornacek’s surprisingly successful initial campaign as a head coach, the Phoenix Suns find themselves in a battle to remain within the playoff picture in an ever-so-tough Western Conference. At 23-18 and currently in what would be the eighth seed, the Suns have relied heavily upon a high-energy and fast-paced, but balanced attack that has been strong enough to at least compete with opponents on most nights.

The million-dollar question around the Valley of the Sun is whether they will use some of their backcourt and swingman depth in order to at least attempt to not only place more distance between themselves and other teams in pursuit of what will eventually be the final playoff spot (the Nuggets are 3.5 games back, but the New Orleans Pelicans trail Phoenix by just one game in the loss column and the Oklahoma City Thunder are lurking close by as well), but also propel this scrappy bunch into a realistic discussion with some of the West’s stronger competition? It’s one thing to beat or compete with a team that’s in the midst of three games in four nights in January, but an entirely different proposition when evaluating whether the Suns are strong enough to beat some of the West’s ‘elite’ in a seven-game series.

While teams are scrambling to make moves in order to bolster their respective rosters, the Suns are one of the few playoff contenders with several movable pieces if they so chose to go that route.

Many of us were at least intrigued by GM Ryan McDonough’s plans when he decided to not only sign Isaiah Thomas this summer, but also retain Eric Bledsoe even after drafting rookie point guard Tyler Ennis. There may have been rumblings about soon-to-be free agent Goran Dragic (who has a player option for 2015-16) just prior to the draft, but here we are at the actual midway point in the season for much of the league, and the Suns still have at least four legitimate lead guards on the roster even if Bledsoe (16.4 PPG, 6.0 APG, 5.2 RPG) has shown an ability to play off the ball just as effectively.

This may sound like a good problem to have as a head coach, as we highly doubt Coach Hornacek will complain about such a luxury; that said, it doesn’t do you much good to have so much depth at one particular position when the roster and rotation could use upgrades in other areas. The truth is, while everyone loves an underdog or feel-good story as these Suns have been, they probably still are not strong enough to beat teams like the Warriors, Grizzlies or Blazers. In reality, while 10-12 against the conference, these Suns have only managed to muster a 4-8 record vs. teams currently in the West’s playoff picture thus far this season.

The recent addition of small forward Reggie Bullock was another peculiar move given the roster composition as well as the current rotation. Gerald Green really seemed to finally find his place in the league during last year’s 48-win blitz from a team that had been expected to be lottery-bound, but finds himself in a somewhat diminished role in this year’s rotation due to the aforementioned roster redundancy. After posting career-high numbers, although still playing well, Green’s productivity has dipped along with his playing time (21.7 minutes compared to 28.4 last season).

With Green coming up on unrestricted free agency this summer, the presence of swingmen (generally shooting guards and small forwards) like P.J. Tucker, Bullock, Archie Goodwin, TJ Warren, Dragic’s brother Zoran could mean the 28-year-old isn’t in McDonough’s future plans. Each of those other players have either recently signed extensions or are locked into what are CBA-friendly rookie contracts for at least another season.

Dragic (16.7 PPG, 3.9 APG) has the opportunity and is expected to opt-out of his current contract following this season. Even though the market will dictate his eventual value, the 2013-14 Most Improved Player award winner will likely seek a deal somewhere between $12-15 million per season as that seems to be the going rate for lead guards at this stage. Of course, the Suns could always re-sign him at his desired rate, but the lengthy deals they signed with Bledsoe and Thomas at least open the door to allocate the cap space toward other needs.

Although you certainly wouldn’t want to mortgage any future opportunities for success by giving up too many assets in a mid-season deal that wouldn’t necessarily guarantee anything this year, these Suns may be in a prime position to pursue a player they were widely-reported to have been interested in last offseason.

No one knows how the Kevin Love experience in Cleveland will ultimately end, but one thing that is certain is it hasn’t gone nearly as well as anyone within that franchise would have liked. Love appears to be (at best) uncomfortable and even out-of-sorts at times. While Love may not be the perfect fit within Cleveland’s offensive sets, he’s as close to tailor-made for Hornacek’s system as you can be at the power forward position. He’s still able to stretch the floor as well Phoenix’s current crop of versatile bigs, and although clearly not the best defender (either), Love will still snatch double-digit rebounds on a nightly basis.

Would McDonough consider attempting to package Dragic and Green in an effort to lure the Cavs into a deal for Love if things simply cannot be worked out? Obviously, as with any hypothetical question or trade, you ask under the assumption of proposed variables, but this really isn’t a stretch to at least contemplate.

The Cavs are clearly in a “win now, at all costs” mindset with LeBron James’ potential free agency after this summer (opt-out clause) and next, and may find themselves in a position of having to survey their options. At that point, the key would seemingly be in McDonough finding a way to convince a West Coast native why life in the Phoenix area and most importantly with the Suns’ organization would be the best choice for what will likely be the prime years of the 26-year-old’s career.

Again, as this is merely a hypothetical idea, who knows if Love even becomes available or if the organization would still covet his services? The point is, if the Suns want to truly step into the conversation in a conference that doesn’t appear to be tapering off anytime soon, these are the types of deals they should be considering. The depth and roster flexibility are great, but you have to be willing to sacrifice some of it if the opportunity to significantly bolster your lineup presents itself. It will be fun to see what type of creativity McDonough shows with all these young assets in the coming years.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/takin ... ext-level/

I make the move for Love if you can give up Thomas Green Plumlee and marcus morris and a pick for Love.

Unload our depth get a good player back

Keep DRagic

[Revived]

Pelicans fans talking about getting Wright

http://www.pelicansreport.com/showthrea ... mond-Green

[Kerrsed]

Pelicans fans talking about getting Wright

http://www.pelicansreport.com/showthrea ... mond-Green

Something tells me we have plans on re-signing him and he will be an important part of our team next season.

[Qwigglez]

Pelicans fans talking about getting Wright

http://www.pelicansreport.com/showthrea ... mond-Green

Something tells me we have plans on re-signing him and he will be an important part of our team next season.

As he should. He fits our prototypical big man in our system. He should see anywhere from 18-24 minutes a night. Lets hope contract negotiations run smoothly.

[Kerrsed]

Pelicans fans talking about getting Wright

http://www.pelicansreport.com/showthrea ... mond-Green

Something tells me we have plans on re-signing him and he will be an important part of our team next season.

As he should. He fits our prototypical big man in our system. He should see anywhere from 18-24 minutes a night. Lets hope contract negotiations run smoothly.

Yup.

Funny thing was that we had the discussion on if he would play any minutes at PF (some people didnt believe he would), and his first minutes on our team was at PF. I'd even venture to say that around half his minutes have come at PF so far.