More trade value: Giannis Antetokounmpo or Ty Lawson?

[BBallFreak]

Given his age, physical attributes, contract and potential, I don't think there are more than a handful of guys with more trade value than Giannis, if you're talking about building a team.

Pretty much... even at his absolute apex right now, Lawson isn't an all NBA or all star type player or have the impact of one Antetokoumnpo has that potential ability, is on a rookie contract and is only 20.

This is what I don't get; Lawson is not as good as Alphabet MIGHT be so you think G is more valuable. Is he more valuable than Lowry? Lowry and Lawson have to be pretty close in terms of value. Looking at what he's done for Toronto I don't see how you can say that.

[Dcebucks11]

Given his age, physical attributes, contract and potential, I don't think there are more than a handful of guys with more trade value than Giannis, if you're talking about building a team.

Pretty much... even at his absolute apex right now, Lawson isn't an all NBA or all star type player or have the impact of one Antetokoumnpo has that potential ability, is on a rookie contract and is only 20.

This is what I don't get; Lawson is not as good as Alphabet MIGHT be so you think G is more valuable. Is he more valuable than Lowry? Lowry and Lawson have to be pretty close in terms of value. Looking at what he's done for Toronto I don't see how you can say that.

It depends on the market. You got to consider all things.

But Point guards are obviously a more common than wings, especially young wings with potential.

[HartfordWhalers]

Given his age, physical attributes, contract and potential, I don't think there are more than a handful of guys with more trade value than Giannis, if you're talking about building a team.

Pretty much... even at his absolute apex right now, Lawson isn't an all NBA or all star type player or have the impact of one Antetokoumnpo has that potential ability, is on a rookie contract and is only 20.

This is what I don't get; Lawson is not as good as Alphabet MIGHT be so you think G is more valuable. Is he more valuable than Lowry? Lowry and Lawson have to be pretty close in terms of value. Looking at what he's done for Toronto I don't see how you can say that.

When valuing Giannis, I think everyone knows that there is a chance he doesn't hit that peak, that "MIGHT" be better. However, the chance that he does (and where he is expected to fall if he doesn't) is worth more than the sure thing of Lawson at Lawson's level.

[Narf]

Young player with upside on a rookie deal is the obvious answer so I have to go with Giannis.

BUT, and I know I am going to get mocked for this, when is the time to ask ourselves is Giannis really that good? I keep reading and hearing about him being this 'can't miss' building block but I feel like he's becoming the new Ricky Rubio - young guy who is such a humble and nice kid that becomes everyone' darling without really producing like a future star.

IMO, both he and Rubio have a lot of supporters because they are great at passing our eye test. Meaning, Rubio is a spectacular passer, Giannis is an athletic freak who does one incredible thing every game... they must be good.

I know he's 20, and I would definitely be happy if he's on the Celtics but I see his ceiling as Batum or Deng, not perennial all-star like Durant.

His stats are closer to Micheal Kidd-Gilchrist than any current star when they were 20. Real plus minus -1.13, PER 15.3, TS% 55.7%

Rubio lead a top 3 offense when he was in that became a bottom dweller every time he went to the bench. I think he was between 20 and 25 in RAPM (since you're using real plus minus) and the best defensive player on Minnesota pretty handily.

The Wolves as a team are a different issue, but there was plenty of discussion from Wolves fans that Rubio > Love while they were both there. Most agreed Love was better, but it was a discussion for a reason.

Might look like a good example for the general board, but ask a Wolves fan who's easily their best player and then come back and tell me Rubio hasn't done anything. It's not like he was 3rd in assists per minute and 1st in steals per minute while being tied for 4th in rebounding per minute from a PG. Like, that's not impressive at all while leading a top offense with a top RAPM.

Rubio is far better than people give him credit for.

[Blame Rasho]

Given his age, physical attributes, contract and potential, I don't think there are more than a handful of guys with more trade value than Giannis, if you're talking about building a team.

Pretty much... even at his absolute apex right now, Lawson isn't an all NBA or all star type player or have the impact of one Antetokoumnpo has that potential ability, is on a rookie contract and is only 20.

This is what I don't get; Lawson is not as good as Alphabet MIGHT be so you think G is more valuable. Is he more valuable than Lowry? Lowry and Lawson have to be pretty close in terms of value. Looking at what he's done for Toronto I don't see how you can say that.

It really all that hard to understand. People would give more for Antetokoumpo right now with his rookie contract, his age and his potential than Lawson. It isn't string theory. The Bucks if they were to put him out on the market could likely get a high lotto pick, Lawson, it would be highly unlikely. If you are the Lakers(using them since they have holes at SF and PG) and somehow you lose the lotto and end up with the 7th or 8th pick in the draft. If they don't like who at their draft position and want to trade out, I think it would be safe to assume they would want Antetokoumpo instead of Lawson if offered.

To your other point, Lowry is significantly better than Lawson in my opinion. If you were to ask for a straight trade up for them, Toronto would laugh at the idea. You don't even need to look at advanced stats(they favor Lowry heavly),their respective play speaks for themselves. Lawson wouldn't be considered among the top 5 or so point guards in the West while Lowry has an argument that he has been the best point guard in the east for the past two years.

[Dcebucks11]

Young player with upside on a rookie deal is the obvious answer so I have to go with Giannis.

BUT, and I know I am going to get mocked for this, when is the time to ask ourselves is Giannis really that good? I keep reading and hearing about him being this 'can't miss' building block but I feel like he's becoming the new Ricky Rubio - young guy who is such a humble and nice kid that becomes everyone' darling without really producing like a future star.

IMO, both he and Rubio have a lot of supporters because they are great at passing our eye test. Meaning, Rubio is a spectacular passer, Giannis is an athletic freak who does one incredible thing every game... they must be good.

I know he's 20, and I would definitely be happy if he's on the Celtics but I see his ceiling as Batum or Deng, not perennial all-star like Durant.

His stats are closer to Micheal Kidd-Gilchrist than any current star when they were 20. Real plus minus -1.13, PER 15.3, TS% 55.7%

Rubio lead a top 3 offense when he was in that became a bottom dweller every time he went to the bench. I think he was 20 or 25 in RAPM (since you're using real plus minus) and the best defensive player on Minnesota pretty handily.

The Wolves as a team are a different issue, but there was plenty of discussion from Wolves fans that Rubio > Love while they were both there. Most agreed Love was better, but it was a discussion for a reason.

Might look like a good example for the general board, but ask a Wolves fan who's easily their best player and then come back and tell me Rubio hasn't done anything. It's not like he was 3rd in assists per minute and 1st in steals per minute while being tied for 4th in rebounding per minute from a PG. Like, that's not impressive at all while leading a top offense with a top RAPM.

Rubio is far better than people give him credit for.

Yeah I was gonna mention people really underrate Rubio, His impact is bigger than his stats. In fact I'd probably rather have rubio than Lawson.. But not gonna get into a debate there

[BBallFreak]

Wow, Lawson is just criminally underrated. I'm sorry, but their's no other explanation for it...

[Narf]

Wow, Lawson is just criminally underrated. I'm sorry, but their's no other explanation for it...

Actually the other explanation is people value Giannis more.

[Dcebucks11]

Wow, Lawson is just criminally underrated. I'm sorry, but their's no other explanation for it...

Look man no one is saying he's a bad player. He's a great player.. What do you want?

[WhatsaTDot]

I've tried typing various responses but I know someone will come knocking on my inbox again so I'll just leave the poll results to speak for themselves.

[Blame Rasho]

Wow, Lawson is just criminally underrated. I'm sorry, but their's no other explanation for it...

Actually the other explanation is people value Giannis more.

It is one thing thinking you are right, it is another insisting that you are right.

[DocRI]

Wow, Lawson is just criminally underrated. I'm sorry, but their's no other explanation for it...

Sorry BBall, but here's one ...

To me Lawson is a top five point guard this year. I wouldn't pass that up for what G may our may not be.

^ ... You are insanely over-rating him. Top five PG? This year? In this NBA? Dude, I actually didn't mind your Lowry comparison, but neither Lowry nor Lawson even sniff the top five at what's, by far, the deepest and most dynamic position in the NBA. I'm not gonna do a full rankings list, but guys like Lawson and Lowry aren't even in the conversation for top five with names like CP3, Curry, Wall, Westbrook, Lillard, Rose, and Parker to consider.

Or, put it another way — try starting a poll of Giannis vs. Wall for trade value and see what the results are.

[Dcebucks11]

Wow, Lawson is just criminally underrated. I'm sorry, but their's no other explanation for it...

Sorry BBall, but here's one ...

To me Lawson is a top five point guard this year. I wouldn't pass that up for what G may our may not be.

^ ... You are insanely over-rating him. Top five PG? This year? In this NBA? Dude, I actually didn't mind your Lowry comparison, but neither Lowry nor Lawson even sniff the top five at what's, by far, the deepest and most dynamic position in the NBA. I'm not gonna do a full rankings list, but guys like Lawson and Lowry aren't even in the conversation for top five with names like CP3, Curry, Wall, Westbrook, Lillard, Rose, and Parker to consider.

Or, put it another way — try starting a poll of Giannis vs. Wall for trade value and see what the results are.

yeah, that one you obviously take Wall.

[SalemStoner]

Lawson's height and the fact that he plays the position that has by FAR the deepest pool of talent in the league take a huge chunk out of Lawson's value.

Lawson is a really good player, but Deng and Batum have more value than Lawson in trade due to the fact that they're bigger and probably top 10 SF. The gap between them and a replacement player is larger than the gap between Lawson and his replacement player.

This comparison also ignores the fact that Giannis has loads of athletic potential and Lawson basically is who he's going to be (kinda like Deng/Batum).

The idea that Lawson is more valuable is wrong, even if Lawson is clearly the more productive player right now.

[Saberestar]

Is this a serious question? Giannis has more trade value by far, it's not even close.He is already a very good player and his ceiling is the sky...and he is on a frienly rookie's contrat.

[BBallFreak]

Wow, Lawson is just criminally underrated. I'm sorry, but their's no other explanation for it...

Sorry BBall, but here's one ...

To me Lawson is a top five point guard this year. I wouldn't pass that up for what G may our may not be.

^ ... You are insanely over-rating him. Top five PG? This year? In this NBA? Dude, I actually didn't mind your Lowry comparison, but neither Lowry nor Lawson even sniff the top five at what's, by far, the deepest and most dynamic position in the NBA. I'm not gonna do a full rankings list, but guys like Lawson and Lowry aren't even in the conversation for top five with names like CP3, Curry, Wall, Westbrook, Lillard, Rose, and Parker to consider.

Or, put it another way — try starting a poll of Giannis vs. Wall for trade value and see what the results are.

Lawson is second in the league in assists, and scores 17 a game. I'm sorry but I like a point guard who distribute the ball. I have Curry, Wall, Paul, and Lilliard ahead of him. I count Westbrook as more of a shooting guard to be honest, but I suppose you could push Lawson to 6. Rose and Parker just don't look that good to me now.

[mlloyd10]

Wow, Lawson is just criminally underrated. I'm sorry, but their's no other explanation for it...

Not here to rub it in, but as you can see, in terms of value(contract, age, potential) ......Giannis has more

[DocRI]

Wow, Lawson is just criminally underrated. I'm sorry, but their's no other explanation for it...

Sorry BBall, but here's one ...

To me Lawson is a top five point guard this year. I wouldn't pass that up for what G may our may not be.

^ ... You are insanely over-rating him. Top five PG? This year? In this NBA? Dude, I actually didn't mind your Lowry comparison, but neither Lowry nor Lawson even sniff the top five at what's, by far, the deepest and most dynamic position in the NBA. I'm not gonna do a full rankings list, but guys like Lawson and Lowry aren't even in the conversation for top five with names like CP3, Curry, Wall, Westbrook, Lillard, Rose, and Parker to consider.

Or, put it another way — try starting a poll of Giannis vs. Wall for trade value and see what the results are.

Lawson is second in the league in assists, and scores 17 a game. I'm sorry but I like a point guard who distribute the ball. I have Curry, Wall, Paul, and Lilliard ahead of him. I count Westbrook as more of a shooting guard to be honest, but I suppose you could push Lawson to 6. Rose and Parker just don't look that good to me now.

I'm a big non-believer in Rose myself, but that's because I think he's a China doll who can't stay healthy; when healthy and on the court (like right now), I just don't see how Lawson ranks ahead of him. Parker may be slightly past his prime, but head to head, I think it's hard to take Lawson against him, too. Even beyond those guys, you've got Irving, Rondo, Conley (who I think is criminally underrated), and the aforementioned Lowry. To get Lawson into the top five, you have to rank him ahead of ALL of those guys. And it's not like the list stops there; I'm sure you can find a T-Wolves fan who ranks Rubio ahead of Lawson, a Hawks fan who ranks Teague ahead of him, a Pelicans fan who prefers Holiday, etc. And you know what? Those are all close enough arguments to at least warrant a discussion (for instance, BlameRasho thinks Lowry > Lawson and that's a perfectly valid opinion).

Bottom line — we all have players who we feel are underrated and don't get their just due, and debating that stuff is part of the fun of being a sports fan. Just don't be so surprised when you go out on a limb and no one follows you there.

[skones]

There are circumstances where a team would prefer Lawson to Giannis, but in a vacuum it's Giannis and it's not close. The lottery ticket aspect tied into Giannis gives him significantly more value.

[WhatsaTDot]

Wow, Lawson is just criminally underrated. I'm sorry, but their's no other explanation for it...

Sorry BBall, but here's one ...

To me Lawson is a top five point guard this year. I wouldn't pass that up for what G may our may not be.

^ ... You are insanely over-rating him. Top five PG? This year? In this NBA? Dude, I actually didn't mind your Lowry comparison, but neither Lowry nor Lawson even sniff the top five at what's, by far, the deepest and most dynamic position in the NBA. I'm not gonna do a full rankings list, but guys like Lawson and Lowry aren't even in the conversation for top five with names like CP3, Curry, Wall, Westbrook, Lillard, Rose, and Parker to consider.

Or, put it another way — try starting a poll of Giannis vs. Wall for trade value and see what the results are.

Lawson is second in the league in assists, and scores 17 a game. I'm sorry but I like a point guard who distribute the ball. I have Curry, Wall, Paul, and Lilliard ahead of him. I count Westbrook as more of a shooting guard to be honest, but I suppose you could push Lawson to 6. Rose and Parker just don't look that good to me now.

Can add Rondo, Conley, Dragic, Bledsoe, Holliday, Rubio, Thomas to the discussion. And thats just in the West. Where you might rank them isnt as important as how different they might be from one another (not that much). All of a sudden, how many teams left are willing to pay more for Lawson than they would for Giannis? This seems like really basic supply and demand type stuff.