Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

[Revived]

What do you guys think about this trade?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1367404

[Kerrsed]

What do you guys think about this trade?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1367404

LMAO, i just came here to post that.

I already put in my two cents.

I respectfully declined when in reality i wanted to shout HELL F'N NO!!!

Funny to see people from other teams chime in that the Suns would do it in a heartbeat.

[Sunsdeuce]

@sunsfanssol.

There is no "unfounded hate". I justified by criticism for him in that post as well as ones before and explained why. As well as explained his weaknesses are not what you need in a PG. Please by all means debunk my criticism. Please Retort and explain to me how he is good at shooting, passing, vision, taking ill advised shots, over dribbling, and his large amount of turnovers. I'm all ears.

[BurningHeart]

"Unfound hate" lol.

Yeah, as if Eric Bledsoe doesn't do things that are worthy of heavy criticism. Dude, it's REALLY OK to criticize players on your team or to not blindly love them, especially when there are points to criticize. And quite frankly, it's not up to anyone to decide the reasons why people might not be head over heels with someone.

I'll tell ya what; There is more blind love for Eric Bledsoe in this fanbase than there is blind hatred.

[Sunsdeuce]

"Unfound hate" lol.

Yeah, as if Eric Bledsoe doesn't do things that are worthy of heavy criticism. Dude, it's REALLY OK to criticize players on your team or to not blindly love them, especially when there are points to criticize. And quite frankly, it's not up to anyone to decide the reasons why people might not be head over heels with someone.

I'll tell ya what; There is more blind love for Eric Bledsoe in this fanbase than there is blind hatred.

Exactly.

[SunsFanSSOL]

@sunsfanssol.

There is no "unfounded hate". I justified by criticism for him in that post as well as ones before and explained why. As well as explained his weaknesses are not what you need in a PG. Please by all means debunk my criticism. Please Retort and explain to me how he is good at shooting, passing, vision, taking ill advised shots, over dribbling, and his large amount of turnovers. I'm all ears.

I already did.

Bledsoe shoots 3's because Hornacek encourages him too. Hornacek said last year that he thinks Bledsoe is a good midrange shooter, and he'd like to see him shoot more. Hornacek let's players play through their mistakes, and it has paid off, just look at Green who has seemingly revived his career have Hornacek instilled confidence in him by not yanking him out of the game immediately after missing a 3.

Bledsoe's still developing, he had half a season last year to co-run an offensive, and have a season this year to run the offense 3/4's of the time. He also doesn't have as many turnovers as you think, MCW, Harden, Westbrook, Wall, Kobe, Knight, Rondo, Curry, Wade, Durant and Rose all average more turnovers, and Knight, IT, Rose, MCW, Parker, Westbrook, and Lin all have a worst AST/TO ratio.

He over dribbles because we don't have a semblance of a half court offense. We have one of the worst assisting teams in the league yet Bledsoe is still top 20 in assists. Our offense in the half court is basically:

1. Iso.

2. Drive, pass out to Markieff for 3.

3. Drive, hoist up layup and hope for foul.

4. Pass to Markieff and have him iso.

5. Drive, pass out to Tucker for corner 3.

[SunsFanSSOL]

"Unfound hate" lol.

Yeah, as if Eric Bledsoe doesn't do things that are worthy of heavy criticism. Dude, it's REALLY OK to criticize players on your team or to not blindly love them, especially when there are points to criticize. And quite frankly, it's not up to anyone to decide the reasons why people might not be head over heels with someone.

I'll tell ya what; There is more blind love for Eric Bledsoe in this fanbase than there is blind hatred.

There is literally an active hate thread for Bledsoe on the front page of this sub forum. I know Bledsoe is worthy of criticism, it's true he over dribbles and runs down the shot clock at time, is a less than stellar outside shooter, relies to heavily to drawing fouls and commonly stops fast break opportunities, but at times it's treated as if he's of the same caliber of Frye, Tolliver, Beasley, and Shannon Brown hate. And of course it's ok to criticize players on your team, I've caught flack on here for constantly criticizing Frye last year, and I always criticizing IT's selfish ball hogging play.

[BurningHeart]

That's cool. I don't care. There are more Bledsoe Cultists than there are Bledsoe "haters."

It's more acceptable to criticize someone who has many reasons to be criticized than to say that the criticizers' "hate" is "unfounded," more than implying that there's no real reason to do so and that it's basically "hating on" that player.

It's a tired, nonsensical discussion. The only person on the team right now that's pretty much going on without any reason to criticize him is Alex Len, and even he has tons to improve on.

[Revived]

What do you guys think about this trade?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1367404

LMAO, i just came here to post that.

I already put in my two cents.

I respectfully declined when in reality i wanted to shout HELL F'N NO!!!

Funny to see people from other teams chime in that the Suns would do it in a heartbeat.

I agree with you here BUT I bet if we were offered this same deal before season started, we would all jump on it asap.

[King4Day]

What do you guys think about this trade?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1367404

A year ago I probably say yes. Def not now.

[Revived]

Bucks may be in the market for a PG now...

https://mobile.twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/556617046335950849

IT for Henson/fillers? Henson is an ideal backup big for the Suns system due to his athleticism and shot blocking/altering ability.

A good read on him:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/john- ... kee-bucks/

[Saberestar]

With Larry Sanders out, they need Henson.

[Kerrsed]

With Larry Sanders out, they need Henson.

I agree.

Marshall really didnt get many minutes, so i doubt they would trade a huge part of their already limited frontcourt to replace a 3rd string back-up PG.

[Sunsdeuce]

@sunsfanssol.

There is no "unfounded hate". I justified by criticism for him in that post as well as ones before and explained why. As well as explained his weaknesses are not what you need in a PG. Please by all means debunk my criticism. Please Retort and explain to me how he is good at shooting, passing, vision, taking ill advised shots, over dribbling, and his large amount of turnovers. I'm all ears.

I already did.

Bledsoe shoots 3's because Hornacek encourages him too. Hornacek said last year that he thinks Bledsoe is a good midrange shooter, and he'd like to see him shoot more. Hornacek let's players play through their mistakes, and it has paid off, just look at Green who has seemingly revived his career have Hornacek instilled confidence in him by not yanking him out of the game immediately after missing a 3.

Bledsoe's still developing, he had half a season last year to co-run an offensive, and have a season this year to run the offense 3/4's of the time. He also doesn't have as many turnovers as you think, MCW, Harden, Westbrook, Wall, Kobe, Knight, Rondo, Curry, Wade, Durant and Rose all average more turnovers, and Knight, IT, Rose, MCW, Parker, Westbrook, and Lin all have a worst AST/TO ratio.

He over dribbles because we don't have a semblance of a half court offense. We have one of the worst assisting teams in the league yet Bledsoe is still top 20 in assists. Our offense in the half court is basically:

1. Iso.

2. Drive, pass out to Markieff for 3.

3. Drive, hoist up layup and hope for foul.

4. Pass to Markieff and have him iso.

5. Drive, pass out to Tucker for corner 3.

Oh I get it now you blame hornacek for his endless dribbling, bad shooting, bad vision/passing, I'll advised shots, ISO ballhogging, and turnovers.

I'm done. You can lead a horse to water but you can force them to drink. Oh well.
On to trade discussions!

[Zelaznyrules]

I really hate this line of thinking even if it does mirror reality occasionally. I don't think Dragic is worth more than 11 or 12 million. And whether we overpaid Bledsoe or not should have no bearing on Dragic's deal. Is Goran worth more than Lowry? Or is he 24 years old and just beginning to show what he can do? If you ("you" being management) think he's worth 14 million then fine, pay him 14 million. But his contract has to stand on it's own, don't make a mistake just because you've already made one. And if you do decide to overpay him, as we did for Eric, do it for a better reason than Bledsoe's contract.

So you admit we overpaid for Bledsoe?

As for reasoning, yes he's an All NBA guard who when isn't playing with 2 other PG's is capable of putting up 20+ pts and 6+ assists a game on great efficiency.

Sure, I think he's overpaid right now. I thought it at the time too although I did consider it a reasonable contract based on his potential and the rising cap. And I'm disappointed in his play so far this season although I still think he's been our best player overall (barely). He has so much potential but until he can knock down that mid-range shot consistently not to mention his 3 point jumper, he's going to have too many off-nights. His turnovers are a problem too but he's cut down on those quite a bit now that he's no longer trying to set up Plumlee. I doubt he'll ever do away with the ball handling TO's, it's just a problem we'll have to live with. Anyway, even without improvement as a shooter, he'll still have value because he defends, rebounds, drives and assists but we're paying him like a top 20 player and he's playing more like he's top 50.

And your "all nba guard" point isn't a reason to overpay Dragic. If you truly consider him to be an ALL NBA player it's probably a reason to give him that contract but then it wouldnt be an overpay. But if you look around the league and decide his value is somewhere around 11 million per, it's foolish to give him 14 million simply because that's what you paid some other player. They aren't twins, they aren't clones and part of the cost of buying Bledsoe was his age and growth potential.

We pretty much know what Goran is by this time. He's a very good player but one season as a 3rd team all NBA guard does not necessarily make him a max contract player. Besides, I doubt that I'm alone in realizing that Goran's 3rd team award was, at least in part, a makeup call for the fact he was ignored for the all star game. His interview where he suggested he "(paraphrased) was not given serious consideration for the all star game because he was an international player from a not-so-important nation" probably helped a bit too. He had a very good season but he is not one of the 6 best guards in the game IMO. I like him. A lot. I don't want to lose him but I don't want to seriously overpay him either.

[bwgood77]

I really hate this line of thinking even if it does mirror reality occasionally. I don't think Dragic is worth more than 11 or 12 million. And whether we overpaid Bledsoe or not should have no bearing on Dragic's deal. Is Goran worth more than Lowry? Or is he 24 years old and just beginning to show what he can do? If you ("you" being management) think he's worth 14 million then fine, pay him 14 million. But his contract has to stand on it's own, don't make a mistake just because you've already made one. And if you do decide to overpay him, as we did for Eric, do it for a better reason than Bledsoe's contract.

So you admit we overpaid for Bledsoe?

As for reasoning, yes he's an All NBA guard who when isn't playing with 2 other PG's is capable of putting up 20+ pts and 6+ assists a game on great efficiency.

Sure, I think he's overpaid right now. I thought it at the time too although I did consider it a reasonable contract based on his potential and the rising cap. And I'm disappointed in his play so far this season although I still think he's been our best player overall (barely). He has so much potential but until he can knock down that mid-range shot consistently not to mention his 3 point jumper, he's going to have too many off-nights. His turnovers are a problem too but he's cut down on those quite a bit now that he's no longer trying to set up Plumlee. I doubt he'll ever do away with the ball handling TO's, it's just a problem we'll have to live with. Anyway, even without improvement as a shooter, he'll still have value because he defends, rebounds, drives and assists but we're paying him like a top 20 player and he's playing more like he's top 50.

And your "all nba guard" point isn't a reason to overpay Dragic. If you truly consider him to be an ALL NBA player it's probably a reason to give him that contract but then it wouldnt be an overpay. But if you look around the league and decide his value is somewhere around 11 million per, it's foolish to give him 14 million simply because that's what you paid some other player. They aren't twins, they aren't clones and part of the cost of buying Bledsoe was his age and growth potential.

We pretty much know what Goran is by this time. He's a very good player but one season as a 3rd team all NBA guard does not necessarily make him a max contract player. Besides, I doubt that I'm alone in realizing that Goran's 3rd team award was, at least in part, a makeup call for the fact he was ignored for the all star game. His interview where he suggested he "(paraphrased) was not given serious consideration for the all star game because he was an international player from a not-so-important nation" probably helped a bit too. He had a very good season but he is not one of the 6 best guards in the game IMO. I like him. A lot. I don't want to lose him but I don't want to seriously overpay him either.

It's still better to overpay quality players than to lose them for nothing. Are you saying you'd let him walk and hope we can sign someone better with the cap space? Because that is extremely unlikely. How many unrestricted free agents have we signed that were great? You can always trade quality players. Also, the cap is likely to go way up soon, so $14 million a year isn't nearly going to be the market for a premier pg....they will likely make significantly more than that.

[Zelaznyrules]

We pretty much know what Goran is by this time. He's a very good player but one season as a 3rd team all NBA guard does not necessarily make him a max contract player. Besides, I doubt that I'm alone in realizing that Goran's 3rd team award was, at least in part, a makeup call for the fact he was ignored for the all star game. His interview where he suggested he "(paraphrased) was not given serious consideration for the all star game because he was an international player from a not-so-important nation" probably helped a bit too. He had a very good season but he is not one of the 6 best guards in the game IMO. I like him. A lot. I don't want to lose him but I don't want to seriously overpay him either.

It's still better to overpay quality players than to lose them for nothing. Are you saying you'd let him walk and hope we can sign someone better with the cap space? Because that is extremely unlikely. How many unrestricted free agents have we signed that were great? You can always trade quality players. Also, the cap is likely to go way up soon, so $14 million a year isn't nearly going to be the market for a premier pg....they will likely make significantly more than that.

No. I'm saying nothing of the sort. I'm simply saying you don't OVERPAY Dragic simply because of Bledsoe's deal. If they make a business decision to pay him above market value because he's an asset in hand, I'm fine with that. I was just reacting to one comment that suggested we had to pay him at least what we paid Bledsoe.

[bigfoot]

What do you guys think about this trade?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1367404

LMAO, i just came here to post that.

I already put in my two cents.

I respectfully declined when in reality i wanted to shout HELL F'N NO!!!

Funny to see people from other teams chime in that the Suns would do it in a heartbeat.

Thanks Kerrsed. That stupidity over there got me a warning. Next time I'll watch what forum I'm in before I post a funny image.

[Kerrsed]

What do you guys think about this trade?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1367404

LMAO, i just came here to post that.

I already put in my two cents.

I respectfully declined when in reality i wanted to shout HELL F'N NO!!!

Funny to see people from other teams chime in that the Suns would do it in a heartbeat.

Thanks Kerrsed. That stupidity over there got me a warning. Next time I'll watch what forum I'm in before I post a funny image.

Yeah, many boards dont tolerate just image posts. Its against the rules.

Luckily here on our board, im the mod and also a big proponent that an image is worth a thousand words.

[NavLDO]

We pretty much know what Goran is by this time. He's a very good player but one season as a 3rd team all NBA guard does not necessarily make him a max contract player. Besides, I doubt that I'm alone in realizing that Goran's 3rd team award was, at least in part, a makeup call for the fact he was ignored for the all star game. His interview where he suggested he "(paraphrased) was not given serious consideration for the all star game because he was an international player from a not-so-important nation" probably helped a bit too. He had a very good season but he is not one of the 6 best guards in the game IMO. I like him. A lot. I don't want to lose him but I don't want to seriously overpay him either.

It's still better to overpay quality players than to lose them for nothing. Are you saying you'd let him walk and hope we can sign someone better with the cap space? Because that is extremely unlikely. How many unrestricted free agents have we signed that were great? You can always trade quality players. Also, the cap is likely to go way up soon, so $14 million a year isn't nearly going to be the market for a premier pg....they will likely make significantly more than that.

No. I'm saying nothing of the sort. I'm simply saying you don't OVERPAY Dragic simply because of Bledsoe's deal. If they make a business decision to pay him above market value because he's an asset in hand, I'm fine with that. I was just reacting to one comment that suggested we had to pay him at least what we paid Bledsoe.

But I don't think Mgmt comes out and says "we have to pay Dragic at least $14M because we paid Bledsoe that much," It's Dragic's agent that will likely cite EB's contract when it comes time for negotiations. But then, yes, the "ball's" in McD's "court" at that point to make the decision, but $14M per, IMO, won't be too much of an overpay for Dragic. Right now, Dragic should be compared to other SGs, since that's essentially his role on the roster, and right now, compared to all SGs, he's 7th in WS, 8th in ORtg, and 9th in PER. But at the same time, he's able to run the Offense, as well, so he has all the benefits of both a SG and PG, so yeah, he might command a smidge more.

But no, he is not a Max player, so hopefully that doesn't materialize into reality. I highly doubt it will, though, at least not in a Suns uni. If some other team wants to pay him that, then we'll have to let him go, is my thinking.