Best futures of Bad Teams

[whocurrz]

I like Utah's current pieces the most. Exum, Favors, Gobert, Hood and Hayward is a great core that should be improving and peaking for quite some time. Alec Burkes seems like a pretty ideal 6th man. Trey Burke and Kanter have potential but I think they will either steal minutes from guys or not get enough to develop. If they can trade those two before the deadline for some assets and hit on a draft pick they will be deep and have tons of assets going forward. A good stretch 4, backup PG (who can help with Exum's development) and some wing defenders off the bench and that team should be fighting for a playoff spot in 2 years.

I haven't watched the Wolves a whole lot but I think they have an intriguing young core in Wiggins, Dieng and Lavine that has a high ceiling because of Wiggins and Lavine's tools. They should get a nice pick this year which should only further help. They should probably trade Pek if they can get solid value.

Orlando isn't as bad as these two but they look like they could be very good too with lots of youth and a few of those guys already being very solid with room to improve. 76ers have a lot of assets and pieces but none have panned out to the point that I'd currently rate them above either of those two. If he can be healthy though I think Embiid can be REALLY good though so I'll reserve judgement on them. Knicks and Lakers are in great markets but Lakers look like they may not get that pick, and Knicks should get a nice building block this year, but I think that team needs to suck a while longer but won't have that luxury with Melo nearing the end of his prime.

[tiderulz]

it would have helped if you had said a floor spacer LIKE Stauskas. then people wouldnt get confused

it would help if you read

i picked a random young SG who is known as a floor spacer as oppose to slasher. Feel free to argue Dipo >Stauskis but i really don't care. Point was floor spacing SG.

that was great, but not in your original post. you said,

but i'd think a shooter like stauskis be a better compliment.

considering Sacramento looks like they are making Stauskis available, it sounds like you were referring directly to him.

anyways, now we know.

[Scalabrine]

im obliged to mention that the Knicks are likely to have Okafor or Mudiay next year and will have about $35 million in cap space too.

Potentially; Melo, Gasol, Dragic, Okafor with Calderon, Early, Hardaway, Prigioni, Galloway all on the books as well.

Its a unique situation because while a lot of the teams being discussed are still looking for that star player, or hoping that one develops from within, the Knicks have a star player in his prime but are looking for other players to put around him.

[Blkbrd671]

it would have helped if you had said a floor spacer LIKE Stauskas. then people wouldnt get confused

it would help if you read

i picked a random young SG who is known as a floor spacer as oppose to slasher. Feel free to argue Dipo >Stauskis but i really don't care. Point was floor spacing SG.

that was great, but not in your original post. you said,

but i'd think a shooter like stauskis be a better compliment.

considering Sacramento looks like they are making Stauskis available, it sounds like you were referring directly to him.

anyways, now we know.

Despite the fact that in my next post i clarified what i meant and stated that exactly. Apparently this whole "ignoring relevant information" is common place with you or maybe its a lack of reading comprehension. Either way its pointless if you can't see anything in or out of context

[Blkbrd671]

it would have helped if you had said a floor spacer LIKE Stauskas. then people wouldnt get confused

it would help if you read

i picked a random young SG who is known as a floor spacer as oppose to slasher. Feel free to argue Dipo >Stauskis but i really don't care. Point was floor spacing SG.

that was great, but not in your original post. you said,

but i'd think a shooter like stauskis be a better compliment.

considering Sacramento looks like they are making Stauskis available, it sounds like you were referring directly to him.

anyways, now we know.

Despite the fact that in my next post i clarified what i meant and stated that exactly. Apparently this whole "ignoring relevant information" is common place with you or maybe its a lack of reading comprehension. Either way its pointless if you can't see anything in or out of context

[Blkbrd671]

it would have helped if you had said a floor spacer LIKE Stauskas. then people wouldnt get confused

it would help if you read

i picked a random young SG who is known as a floor spacer as oppose to slasher. Feel free to argue Dipo >Stauskis but i really don't care. Point was floor spacing SG.

that was great, but not in your original post. you said,

but i'd think a shooter like stauskis be a better compliment.

considering Sacramento looks like they are making Stauskis available, it sounds like you were referring directly to him.

anyways, now we know.

Despite the fact that in my next post i clarified what i meant and stated that exactly. Apparently this whole "ignoring relevant information" is common place with you or maybe its a lack of reading comprehension. Either way its pointless if you can't see anything in or out of context

[brackdan70]

im obliged to mention that the Knicks are likely to have Okafor or Mudiay next year and will have about $35 million in cap space too.

Potentially; Melo, Gasol, Dragic, Okafor with Calderon, Early, Hardaway, Prigioni, Galloway all on the books as well.

Its a unique situation because while a lot of the teams being discussed are still looking for that star player, or hoping that one develops from within, the Knicks have a star player in his prime but are looking for other players to put around him.

You think Gasol leaves one of the best teams in the NBA to be the 8th seed in the east?

[majortom71]

im obliged to mention that the Knicks are likely to have Okafor or Mudiay next year and will have about $35 million in cap space too.

Potentially; Melo, Gasol, Dragic, Okafor with Calderon, Early, Hardaway, Prigioni, Galloway all on the books as well.

Its a unique situation because while a lot of the teams being discussed are still looking for that star player, or hoping that one develops from within, the Knicks have a star player in his prime but are looking for other players to put around him.

You think Gasol leaves one of the best teams in the NBA to be the 8th seed in the east?

Yea cause everyone wants to go to NYK! amirite?

[lakersin4]

I'll just do the western conference.

1. Min - Wiggins, Lavine, Dieng, Shabazz, Rubio is only 24. Their pick is 1-12 protected the next 2 years so they'll end up getting 2 more lottery players this season & next. They're looking at 2-3 allstars or superstars out of that group including the picks & a talented group around them. Very bright future.

2. Utah - Kanter, Favors, Hayward, at 22, 23, 24 should all hit their primes around the same time if they keep that group together. Exum hasn't shown much so far but extremely high ceiling. Burks & Burke both look good, Burke really broke out when Burks went down for the season, averaging 16.5 & 5 so far in January. Gobert looks like he'll be good. Then they have the other rookies besides Exum who still have the potential to break out like Hood, + another lottery pick incoming this season. They are loaded with young talent.

In the middle:

LA - Don't have the roster full of young talent like Utah & Min, but as long as Randle isn't derailed by this injury he looked like he was ready to start already. Potential allstar for sure. Clarkson looks like he will be a rotation player & Sacre is a solid backup C. 25 is my cutoff for "young" players so Ed Davis doesn't make the list. After they shut Kobe down for the season should have no problem finishing badly enough to keep a top 5 pick this season along with Houston's 1st rounder. Essentially rolled their cap space over to this summer by giving Hill a team option & taking Lin on a 1 year deal. Now that Kobe has proven the ACL didn't end his career, Nick Young is locked in, added Randle, top 5 pick, late 1st, the team should be much more appealing to free agents than it was last summer.

Den - Nurkic looks like he's going to be a starting C. They don't have much young talent but Lawson at 27 is just entering his prime & Faried at 25 should be there in a few years. They're mostly not on the worst list due to draft picks. Their own 1st should end up in the lottery, OKC should sneak into the playoffs giving them a mid 1st. They probably won't get the Memphis pick this season as it has to fall between 6-14, but they have the right to swap picks with the Knicks next year & that could very easily be a top 5 pick.

Worst:

1. Sac - They have a great young C in Cousins & not much of anything else. Rudy will continue scoring because noone else can. They gave away IT. McLemore has yet to show any potential for breaking out. They're already trying to dump Stauskas. They need to get a top 10 pick to keep it & I think they'll come very close to messing that up. They've traded every 2nd rounder from now until 2019. Just a bad situation.

I'll come back to do the East if I have time.

[Kings2013]

I'll just do the western conference.

1. Min - Wiggins, Lavine, Dieng, Shabazz, Rubio is only 24. Their pick is 1-12 protected the next 2 years so they'll end up getting 2 more lottery players this season & next. They're looking at 2-3 allstars or superstars out of that group including the picks & a talented group around them. Very bright future.

2. Utah - Kanter, Favors, Hayward, at 22, 23, 24 should all hit their primes around the same time if they keep that group together. Exum hasn't shown much so far but extremely high ceiling. Burks & Burke both look good, Burke really broke out when Burks went down for the season, averaging 16.5 & 5 so far in January. Gobert looks like he'll be good. Then they have the other rookies besides Exum who still have the potential to break out like Hood, + another lottery pick incoming this season. They are loaded with young talent.

In the middle:

LA - Don't have the roster full of young talent like Utah & Min, but as long as Randle isn't derailed by this injury he looked like he was ready to start already. Potential allstar for sure. Clarkson looks like he will be a rotation player & Sacre is a solid backup C. 25 is my cutoff for "young" players so Ed Davis doesn't make the list. After they shut Kobe down for the season should have no problem finishing badly enough to keep a top 5 pick this season along with Houston's 1st rounder. Essentially rolled their cap space over to this summer by giving Hill a team option & taking Lin on a 1 year deal. Now that Kobe has proven the ACL didn't end his career, Nick Young is locked in, added Randle, top 5 pick, late 1st, the team should be much more appealing to free agents than it was last summer.

Den - Nurkic looks like he's going to be a starting C. They don't have much young talent but Lawson at 27 is just entering his prime & Faried at 25 should be there in a few years. They're mostly not on the worst list due to draft picks. Their own 1st should end up in the lottery, OKC should sneak into the playoffs giving them a mid 1st. They probably won't get the Memphis pick this season as it has to fall between 6-14, but they have the right to swap picks with the Knicks next year & that could very easily be a top 5 pick.

Worst:

1. Sac - They have a great young C in Cousins & not much of anything else. Rudy will continue scoring because noone else can. They gave away IT. McLemore has yet to show any potential for breaking out. They're already trying to dump Stauskas. They need to get a top 10 pick to keep it & I think they'll come very close to messing that up. They've traded every 2nd rounder from now until 2019. Just a bad situation.

I'll come back to do the East if I have time.

I don't have a problem if you think our future is bad, but I think its a little bit of a stretch to say Gay, Collison and McLemore are nothing.

Gay is a 20/6/4, fairly efficient SF.
Collison has been rated as solid so far viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1367219
Ben has had a rough stretch but has improved a lot from last year to this year, to the point where I think a lot of Kings fans anticipate him being a solid starter

Other than that yes we do have holes on the roster and organization (coaching) currently, but IMO those 4 are solid

[lakersin4]

I'll just do the western conference.

1. Min - Wiggins, Lavine, Dieng, Shabazz, Rubio is only 24. Their pick is 1-12 protected the next 2 years so they'll end up getting 2 more lottery players this season & next. They're looking at 2-3 allstars or superstars out of that group including the picks & a talented group around them. Very bright future.

2. Utah - Kanter, Favors, Hayward, at 22, 23, 24 should all hit their primes around the same time if they keep that group together. Exum hasn't shown much so far but extremely high ceiling. Burks & Burke both look good, Burke really broke out when Burks went down for the season, averaging 16.5 & 5 so far in January. Gobert looks like he'll be good. Then they have the other rookies besides Exum who still have the potential to break out like Hood, + another lottery pick incoming this season. They are loaded with young talent.

In the middle:

LA - Don't have the roster full of young talent like Utah & Min, but as long as Randle isn't derailed by this injury he looked like he was ready to start already. Potential allstar for sure. Clarkson looks like he will be a rotation player & Sacre is a solid backup C. 25 is my cutoff for "young" players so Ed Davis doesn't make the list. After they shut Kobe down for the season should have no problem finishing badly enough to keep a top 5 pick this season along with Houston's 1st rounder. Essentially rolled their cap space over to this summer by giving Hill a team option & taking Lin on a 1 year deal. Now that Kobe has proven the ACL didn't end his career, Nick Young is locked in, added Randle, top 5 pick, late 1st, the team should be much more appealing to free agents than it was last summer.

Den - Nurkic looks like he's going to be a starting C. They don't have much young talent but Lawson at 27 is just entering his prime & Faried at 25 should be there in a few years. They're mostly not on the worst list due to draft picks. Their own 1st should end up in the lottery, OKC should sneak into the playoffs giving them a mid 1st. They probably won't get the Memphis pick this season as it has to fall between 6-14, but they have the right to swap picks with the Knicks next year & that could very easily be a top 5 pick.

Worst:

1. Sac - They have a great young C in Cousins & not much of anything else. Rudy will continue scoring because noone else can. They gave away IT. McLemore has yet to show any potential for breaking out. They're already trying to dump Stauskas. They need to get a top 10 pick to keep it & I think they'll come very close to messing that up. They've traded every 2nd rounder from now until 2019. Just a bad situation.

I'll come back to do the East if I have time.

I don't have a problem if you think our future is bad, but I think its a little bit of a stretch to say Gay, Collison and McLemore are nothing.

Gay is a 20/6/4, fairly efficient SF.
Collison has been rated as solid so far viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1367219
Ben has had a rough stretch but has improved a lot from last year to this year, to the point where I think a lot of Kings fans anticipate him being a solid starter

Other than that yes we do have holes on the roster and organization (coaching) currently, but IMO those 4 are solid

I wouldn't say they're nothing in a current context, but this thread is about the future. Rudy is what he is.. He'll put up his stats if you win 20 games or if you win 50 games. At 28 I'm also not sure how much longer he can perform at this level, so I didn't count him towards your future.

Collison hasn't done a bad job at all, I wasn't sure he could put up these type of numbers as a starter but he's been a surprise for sure. But again, at 27 I'm not sure how much he could impact your future.

McLemore, obviously guys have broken out in their 3rd season but 2 seasons in I haven't seen anything to indicate he'll ever be more than a solid rotation player. He's only had 5 20 point games this season with his high being 23, & most of them were against lottery teams. When you see a young player that's supposed to be a future star pushed into the starting lineup & consistently getting over 33 MPG, you expect to see some games where he shows star potential & it just hasn't been there. He only grabs 3 boards, 1 assist, with a season high of 4 assists. Dunking is the only thing I've seen him do at an above average level.

Add in trading away your 1st(although you might keep it if it's top 10). Rudy & Cousins will prevent you from adding a significant F/A. Unless I'm completely wrong about McLemore & he ends up being the best or 2nd best player on that team, I see no way out of the lottery. At least not in time for players like Rudy & Collison to still be in the picture.

[mr2good]

Utah in a terrible position? GTFO.

Even if you discount Exum, and I certainly wouldn't, they have the future DPOY and best rim protector for the next ten years. Hayward is fantastic and Favors is a dominant defender and decent offensive piece.

The Burks contract is the only wrong move they have made.

Philly have an equally bright future as they have two potential inside defensive stalwarts.

Orlando will have too much tied up in Vucevic and Harris that they will struggle to take the next step defensively. I can see both being untradable in 2 years.

Hard to say Tobias' contract will be untradable when Orlando hasn't signed him to one yet and in case you haven't been paying attention Vuc's new contract is considered one of the better bargains in the Association!

[Amish Mafioso]

Utah is in a teribble position.

Never post again.

[Scalabrine]

im obliged to mention that the Knicks are likely to have Okafor or Mudiay next year and will have about $35 million in cap space too.

Potentially; Melo, Gasol, Dragic, Okafor with Calderon, Early, Hardaway, Prigioni, Galloway all on the books as well.

Its a unique situation because while a lot of the teams being discussed are still looking for that star player, or hoping that one develops from within, the Knicks have a star player in his prime but are looking for other players to put around him.

You think Gasol leaves one of the best teams in the NBA to be the 8th seed in the east?

That team would not be an 8th seed

I think he will consider it honestly. Put him on a team in the East with Melo, with Phil in the fold, a top pick on a rookie deal, and more capspace. I think its an appealing situation and if the Grizzleis get knocked out in the first or second round it only becomes more appealing.

[roc]

Detroit has 9th worst record ATM so IMO qualify for this question so...

Detroit Basketball!

1. They have a great coach in SVG
2. 21 year old Andre Drummond is already a beast and still has potential enough to possibly become a superstar
3. Moose is still young and has looked much better after Josh got sent packing.
4. Championship history
5. Other nice young pieces and some cap available to boot

This offseason should help clear up the picture a bit depending on how things go in FA with Moose and any other signings.

All 5 of our starters ATM are fairly young and now learning what it takes to win. IMO the future looks pretty good for Detroit Basketball.

[brackdan70]

im obliged to mention that the Knicks are likely to have Okafor or Mudiay next year and will have about $35 million in cap space too.

Potentially; Melo, Gasol, Dragic, Okafor with Calderon, Early, Hardaway, Prigioni, Galloway all on the books as well.

Its a unique situation because while a lot of the teams being discussed are still looking for that star player, or hoping that one develops from within, the Knicks have a star player in his prime but are looking for other players to put around him.

You think Gasol leaves one of the best teams in the NBA to be the 8th seed in the east?

That team would not be an 8th seed

I think he will consider it honestly. Put him on a team in the East with Melo, with Phil in the fold, a top pick on a rookie deal, and more capspace. I think its an appealing situation and if the Grizzleis get knocked out in the first or second round it only becomes more appealing.

you might want to recalibrate your cap space estimate for starters. Knicks are at 33 million for 4 players for 2015 plus first round pick ( 4million at least) and minimum slots. if you bring back Prigioni and Gallaway thats another 2.5...so at 40 million for 7 players. 5 minimum slots equals 3 million. so 43m. caps is expected to be 66-68 million, so if the Knicks burn all cap hold they could have 23-25 million in space. If Gasol is going to NY he is not taking any kind of discount. he gets 20 million a year. That does not leave enough to sign Dragic.
Melo's best years are behind him. he still is a great scorer, but you are living in a knickopia if you expect him to be a star going forward. maybe next year...maybe in 2016...but your high draft pick in 2015 (especially if a 19 yo) will not be a + player by then.

If I am Gasol i am not touching that mess. Memphis actually has equivalent cap space and better players already. and lets check the standings...29-12, 3rd in the West. dude would be crazy to leave that situation.

Granted I overstated my comment about the "8th seed", but even if by some miracle Knicks get Gasol and Dragic to sign for discounts...leaving better situations because of the draw of the big apple... and you land Okafer, Its not a contender in 2016 or 2017 and the window is tight. In 2018 Melo is 33, Gasol 32...maybe it happens if Okafer turns into a star as quick as Anthony Davis.

I do hope the knicks become relevant again, because the league is better when they are. but i don't think this scenario is very realistic.

[Scalabrine]

You think Gasol leaves one of the best teams in the NBA to be the 8th seed in the east?

That team would not be an 8th seed

I think he will consider it honestly. Put him on a team in the East with Melo, with Phil in the fold, a top pick on a rookie deal, and more capspace. I think its an appealing situation and if the Grizzleis get knocked out in the first or second round it only becomes more appealing.

you might want to recalibrate your cap space estimate for starters. Knicks are at 33 million for 4 players for 2015 plus first round pick ( 4million at least) and minimum slots. if you bring back Prigioni and Gallaway thats another 2.5...so at 40 million for 7 players. 5 minimum slots equals 3 million. so 43m. caps is expected to be 66-68 million, so if the Knicks burn all cap hold they could have 23-25 million in space. If Gasol is going to NY he is not taking any kind of discount. he gets 20 million a year. That does not leave enough to sign Dragic.
Melo's best years are behind him. he still is a great scorer, but you are living in a knickopia if you expect him to be a star going forward. maybe next year...maybe in 2016...but your high draft pick in 2015 (especially if a 19 yo) will not be a + player by then.

If I am Gasol i am not touching that mess. Memphis actually has equivalent cap space and better players already. and lets check the standings...29-12, 3rd in the West. dude would be crazy to leave that situation.

Granted I overstated my comment about the "8th seed", but even if by some miracle Knicks get Gasol and Dragic to sign for discounts...leaving better situations because of the draw of the big apple... and you land Okafer, Its not a contender in 2016 or 2017 and the window is tight. In 2018 Melo is 33, Gasol 32...maybe it happens if Okafer turns into a star as quick as Anthony Davis.

I do hope the knicks become relevant again, because the league is better when they are. but i don't think this scenario is very realistic.

They can sign their draft pick after they use there capspace. Also according to hoopshype they will have 34.1 in capspace, if they keep Early and Galloway that brings us to 35.5. Cap is projected at 68 I though so that leaves 32.5 million. They could also stretch Calderon if they truly couldnt find a trade.

[jpengland]

Utah in a terrible position? GTFO.

Even if you discount Exum, and I certainly wouldn't, they have the future DPOY and best rim protector for the next ten years. Hayward is fantastic and Favors is a dominant defender and decent offensive piece.

The Burks contract is the only wrong move they have made.

Philly have an equally bright future as they have two potential inside defensive stalwarts.

Orlando will have too much tied up in Vucevic and Harris that they will struggle to take the next step defensively. I can see both being untradable in 2 years.

Hard to say Tobias' contract will be untradable when Orlando hasn't signed him to one yet and in case you haven't been paying attention Vuc's new contract is considered one of the better bargains in the Association!

Harris looks set to receive 13 - 15m per year. I have gone in to the limitations of Harris many, many times. He is going to get paid and in a couple of years the Magic will realise he's a hard piece to build around, as will everybody else.

Vucevic is a very poor defensive C who scores in the low post. Something which is exceptionally hard to build a contending team with unless you can find a very rare skillset in a PF. These sort of players look good on poor teams, but any long term success is very unlikely with a player like that in your starting line up.

This is the problem with players playing well on bad teams, they 'earn' a good contract but teams have to be smart and figure out how they fit into their long term strategy.

[TimRobbins]

The Knicks are in a pretty good position. #1 pick + Melo + Max space - that would be a pretty quick rebuild. If Okafor turns out to be a franchise center, you're looking at some pretty great future.

[brackdan70]

That team would not be an 8th seed

I think he will consider it honestly. Put him on a team in the East with Melo, with Phil in the fold, a top pick on a rookie deal, and more capspace. I think its an appealing situation and if the Grizzleis get knocked out in the first or second round it only becomes more appealing.

you might want to recalibrate your cap space estimate for starters. Knicks are at 33 million for 4 players for 2015 plus first round pick ( 4million at least) and minimum slots. if you bring back Prigioni and Gallaway thats another 2.5...so at 40 million for 7 players. 5 minimum slots equals 3 million. so 43m. caps is expected to be 66-68 million, so if the Knicks burn all cap hold they could have 23-25 million in space. If Gasol is going to NY he is not taking any kind of discount. he gets 20 million a year. That does not leave enough to sign Dragic.
Melo's best years are behind him. he still is a great scorer, but you are living in a knickopia if you expect him to be a star going forward. maybe next year...maybe in 2016...but your high draft pick in 2015 (especially if a 19 yo) will not be a + player by then.

If I am Gasol i am not touching that mess. Memphis actually has equivalent cap space and better players already. and lets check the standings...29-12, 3rd in the West. dude would be crazy to leave that situation.

Granted I overstated my comment about the "8th seed", but even if by some miracle Knicks get Gasol and Dragic to sign for discounts...leaving better situations because of the draw of the big apple... and you land Okafer, Its not a contender in 2016 or 2017 and the window is tight. In 2018 Melo is 33, Gasol 32...maybe it happens if Okafer turns into a star as quick as Anthony Davis.

I do hope the knicks become relevant again, because the league is better when they are. but i don't think this scenario is very realistic.

They can sign their draft pick after they use there capspace. Also according to hoopshype they will have 34.1 in capspace, if they keep Early and Galloway that brings us to 35.5. Cap is projected at 68 I though so that leaves 32.5 million. They could also stretch Calderon if they truly couldnt find a trade.

First round draft picks actually have a cap hold. For the number 1 pick it is just under 5 million I believe and goes down from there. also there are cap holds for minimum salary spots to fill out the roster. So if you use the best case scenario of 68 million cap, Knicks have 34 million - 4 million estimate for 1st rounder - 4 million for 6 minimum salary spots = 26 million. Gasol will command around 20 million. Dragic 12-15 million. can't do it. Maybe you can get Asik and Dragic, and then sign a decent guy with the mid-level. The Knicks are in a bit of a tight spot because they don't have much for assets besides this years first round pick...which is a nice one for sure. That makes sign and trades unlikely. Next years pick goes to Toronto / Denver. Will see what kind of Magic Phil can work this summer, but Gasol is a pipe dream.
good luck
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q14

see question 14 for cap holds