Official Trade Thread - Part XXVIII

[jivelikenice]

Mo Williams for 2nd rounder & Dejuan Blair (With or without Garrett Temple)
Mo Williams for 2nd & Andre Miller


Get'er done.

Do we have room to take on Mo with the Exemption and stay under the tax?

[LyricalRico]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/561384093121011712[/tweet]

Hmmm...can we get in on that? Maybe send expirings and seconds to BKN and we get Hickson?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

In 9 years, there have been exactly 2 players drafted 50th or higher who have been a bargain on a production/cost basis during their rookie deal relative to what was available on waivers. That's Isaiah Thomas and Patty Mills.

Kent Bazemore of the Hawks plays significant minutes on a team that has not lost in quite a while.

Justin Holiday plays significant minutes on the team with the league's best record.

How would you rate Ryan Kelly, Phil Pressey, Tarik Black and Greg Smith (the Mavericks like him)? I would say each is a bargain in terms of production/cost!

Robert Covington might be every bit as good as Otto Porter.

I only went back five years but I think your premise is most incorrect, nate.

CCJ, you are missing my point. I never said that you need a high pick to acquire talent. I agree with you that a prudent GM can find good young talent cheaply. I'm only saying that really late 2nd round picks are not particularly useful. At that point, it's a total crapshoot. You're better off just keeping the roster spot open and then scouring the D-League, summer leagues and training camps to fill the spot once you see these guys playing against NBA-caliber talent.

If you can use that late pick to acquire a respectable veteran that fills a need like Mo Williams, go ahead and do it. As you pointed out, there are plenty of other ways to acquire decent young talent.

I think teams that draft well like the Spurs almost ALWAYS make their second round picks useful, no matter how late.

I think the reason most second round picks don't stick has more to do with guaranteed contracts and coaches like Randy Wittman, who prefer to stick with veterans. I believe the difference in talent in those late second round picks isn't necessarily wide.

I do agree with you that there are many ways to acquire decent young talent (besides late round two picks). Yes, the D-League, summer leagues, training camps, as well as other players returning from places like China and Euroleague deals are good ways to fill talent.

[gambitx777]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/561384093121011712[/tweet]

Hmmm...can we get in on that? Maybe send expirings and seconds to BKN and we get Hickson?

Net get: protected First from denver, McGee, Joffrey Lauvergne, Chu Maduabum, Kevin, Thomas, Gooden, and 1 second round pick.
Wiz get: Hickson
Denver get: Lopez

The net's traded away most of this draft picks over the next 4-5 years then need young talent, the get 2 solid young bigs on short term deals, and they get 2 picks plus 3 prospects.

We get hickson for our troubles and an open spot on the team to bring in another big AKA a guy from China or Sanders/KG if they get bought out or even a Bynum/odin if they have anything at all left in the tanks (mentally and physically).

Denver get's the big injury prone fish that they always seem to catch.
its win/win/"win" (with air quotes) for every one !

[nuposse04]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/561745188490838016[/tweet]

I think this is worth keeping an eye on. If the rockets start hemorrhaging losses we may be able to get some value for Seraphin out of them, although I'm sure Morey would prefer Blair, as he is actually a good player.

[gambitx777]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/561745188490838016[/tweet]

I think this is worth keeping an eye on. If the rockets start hemorrhaging losses we may be able to get some value for Seraphin out of them, although I'm sure Morey would prefer Blair, as he is actually a good player.

I think they are going to call up Clint Capella, That kid can play D it's worth a try before they sell off assets for someone like Kevin
But if they wan to trade us Shved and Capela for Kevin or Blair I'm down with that deal. When healthy I like Shved better than Miller and Capela could be a big time steal!

[Dark Faze]

So our frontcourt duo is combining for a pitiful 13 boards a game now and Gortats PER is slightly above league average. I couldn't care less about Nenes production, as he's expiring and he's always been the type of guy you just want to keep healthy for the playoffs.

Gortat is looking like a bad contract and it's the first year of his deal. Selling high on him now might be the only shot you have at moving him.

Some moves I'd look at:

Gortat and 1st for Al Jefferson
Gortat and 1st for Roy Hibbert
Gortat and 1st for Ed Davis and Jordan Hill

All of those deals are for contracts ending before the summer of Durant.

[LyricalRico]

Something based around Blair for Shved works for me.

[Dark Faze]

Monroe 17 and 13 this month.

ugh

and he's still out of position playing next to a monstrosity of a man in Drummond

[nuposse04]

Shved is awful, even Seraphin has more value then him.

I'm ok with trading Gortat but I'd rather gamble on guys like Larry Sanders then give away ANOTHER 1st rounder to get rid of him. We need some young depth, Seraphin can't cut it and shouldn't be in any future plans.

[hands11]

So our frontcourt duo is combining for a pitiful 13 boards a game now and Gortats PER is slightly above league average. I couldn't care less about Nenes production, as he's expiring and he's always been the type of guy you just want to keep healthy for the playoffs.

Gortat is looking like a bad contract and it's the first year of his deal. Selling high on him now might be the only shot you have at moving him.

Some moves I'd look at:

Gortat and 1st for Al Jefferson
Gortat and 1st for Roy Hibbert
Gortat and 1st for Ed Davis and Jordan Hill

All of those deals are for contracts ending before the summer of Durant.

None of those players is better for this team then Gortat.
AL is more independent of a scorer, but worse defense and more injury prone and slower running the floor.
Roy is a head case and would be even worse against these stretch teams. And slower down the floor.
Ed Davis is a nice prospect off the bench as a ulitity player, but not a Gortat replacement.

Jordan Hill I actually like. I could see that. But he is a little less regarding mature locker room type. Not sure how much that would matter. If you made a move, that would be the one to do. 9M team option next year. Books would be wide open in 2016

Gortat is not he problem. He and Wall would run PnR circles around teams if they opened the floor some and actually ran it more. Remember when Nene was hurt last year. Who did they have out there with Gortat. Probably AH or Gooden. They shredded teams up running Wall to Gortat PnR

Teams are going to open the paint for that until we get a PF out there stretching the floor.

When Nene is on, he can do it to 12-13 ft ( needs to extend his range )
Hump is more reliable out to 15 ft or so ( needs to extend his range )
Gooden opens it up even more because he will shoot out to the 3 line. .333 this year and .412 last year
Paul at S4 would open it up even more. .389 on the year and .433 for Jan

I don't blame Gortat fore being what he is and Randy not using him and Wall at something they were top of the league in last year.

That's on the coach, not the player. If I was Gortat, I would be pissed and I bet he is.

Kevin is the one I think things ride on because he isn't signed. He is a 3rd center against TOR, ATL type teams with Nene and Gortat as the one and two and Hump, Gooden, Paul as the PF. Against other line ups not like TOR, ATL, Kevin is fine as the back up PF so he is more versatile then Blair. But if we go with a S4 to replace Kevin, Blair is fine as your 3rd center.

Kevin/Miller and whatever you can live with..Thomas ? for Jordan Hill would work.
Marvin Williams
Sullinger would be a nice add.
Jonas Jerebko
Terrence Jones

But we already have Drew Gooden and we don't even use him. That's what frustrating. We don't even need a change there and we could be much better. Randy just doesn't do it.

[Dark Faze]

Gortat is the definition of mediocre. Can finish well, but can't create, slightly above average defensively, and super disappointing on the glass this year.

You can blame coaching, but Gortats ceiling is what it is. He's played with good PG's and the best he's been able to do is 15 and 10. A spade is just a spade man. Coaches can make players better, but they can only make them so much worse. Monroe has been in about as bad of a position as he could possibly be put in, but he still nets results. Its the same for many guys.

I'm not saying Gortat isn't a good fit. He is, just not with that much of an investment. We're on the hook for many years and he's not close to being good enough to wanting to secure for that long.

[payitforward]

I agree about Jefferson & Hibbert. But a lot of the rest of what you suggest here doesn't look to hold water, Hands. Here's why...

The Lakers aren't trading Jordan Hill or Ed Davis -- certainly not for the little we'd be willing/able to give. They're rebuilding and those are solid pieces at good value. Ditto that Boston isn't trading Sullinger. Ditto Jones (for the marginalia we'd want to give...). Jerebko is meh, but he's better value/$ than what we cd/wd give for him.

You want Nene and Humphries to "extend their range" ?? You think at this point in their careers, these guys are going to become different players?

As to Gooden, he came in fresh last year against a league of guys who'd already played 60%+ of a season. He played better than he had in years -- and that was presumably the reason. This year, he has looked just terrible in 275 minutes. TS% last year .59; this year .45. Rebounds per 40 minutes: last year 11.4, this year 8.6.

You know when the last time Gooden played a full season and was as effective as he was for us last year? 2009-2010. Before that? 2005-06. He's not the solution to any problem.

As to Pierce -- he already plays @27 minutes a game. That's also what he played last year. He's 37. He's not going to give you more minutes than that. He's also playing at almost exactly the same high level he played at last year.

He plays some of his minutes, not many, at the 4. If more of his minutes come at that position, then someone has to pick up those minutes at the 3, right? We have no one else as effective at the 3.

Moreover, Pierce is *already* shooting 5.9 3-pointers per 40 minutes. How many more do you think he'll be able to take? Moreover, Pierce is not much of a rebounder and altogether negligible on the offensive boards. Every rebound we don't get gives the other team an extra shot, right?

No matter how many ways or how many times you shuffle a deck of cards, you have the same 52. There isn't some magical other rotation that would suddenly make us a more effective team. Wish there was....

[Earth2Ted]

So our frontcourt duo is combining for a pitiful 13 boards a game now and Gortats PER is slightly above league average. I couldn't care less about Nenes production, as he's expiring and he's always been the type of guy you just want to keep healthy for the playoffs.

Gortat is looking like a bad contract and it's the first year of his deal. Selling high on him now might be the only shot you have at moving him.

Some moves I'd look at:

Gortat and 1st for Al Jefferson
Gortat and 1st for Roy Hibbert
Gortat and 1st for Ed Davis and Jordan Hill

All of those deals are for contracts ending before the summer of Durant.

The thought of Georgetown grad, 2 time all star, NBA All Defensive 2nd team Roy Hibbert, and DC's own All World Kevin Durant, in Wizards uniforms, walking out of the huddle with Wall and Beal to a standing ovation from a sellout crowd, HAS TO have at least crossed Ted's mind at some point.

But he's not going to trade a good citizen and ambassador of the game like Gortat- even if the Pacers (or Charlotte, Brooklyn, or whoever) were interested. It just wouldn't be Ted if he did.

[80sballboy]

Why would Indiana trade Hibbert? When Paul George is on the floor and healthy, with Hibbert and David West, they can compete in the East. Just need another piece or two in the backcourt and they'll possibly have a lottery pick. Why in the hell would they want Gortat, who is less imposing defensively and better suited for a team that likes to run?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Gortat is the definition of mediocre. Can finish well, but can't create, slightly above average defensively, and super disappointing on the glass this year.

You can blame coaching, but Gortats ceiling is what it is. He's played with good PG's and the best he's been able to do is 15 and 10. A spade is just a spade man. Coaches can make players better, but they can only make them so much worse. Monroe has been in about as bad of a position as he could possibly be put in, but he still nets results. Its the same for many guys.

I'm not saying Gortat isn't a good fit. He is, just not with that much of an investment. We're on the hook for many years and he's not close to being good enough to wanting to secure for that long.

Gortat's rebounding is slightly down, from 10.4 rebounds per 36 minutes to 9.8. He is still second on the team. Humphries and Pierce account for rebounds Gortat doesn't have to get.

I think he is a good rebounder.

Not saying his contract was a good idea but rebounding is not a problem with Gortat IMO.

[Dark Faze]

Why would Indiana trade Hibbert? When Paul George is on the floor and healthy, with Hibbert and David West, they can compete in the East. Just need another piece or two in the backcourt and they'll possibly have a lottery pick. Why in the hell would they want Gortat, who is less imposing defensively and better suited for a team that likes to run?

He'll be looking for a post cap increase max contract in a couple of years and given some of his mental issues of late, giving him that could be a concern.

They also have a chance at drafting his replacement with a high pick this year. Gortat would be a good starter until that player is ready to go, or a valuable backup under the new cap, and would be set to expire by the time said draft pick is up for extension.

[80sballboy]

Why would Indiana trade Hibbert? When Paul George is on the floor and healthy, with Hibbert and David West, they can compete in the East. Just need another piece or two in the backcourt and they'll possibly have a lottery pick. Why in the hell would they want Gortat, who is less imposing defensively and better suited for a team that likes to run?

He'll be looking for a post cap increase max contract in a couple of years and given some of his mental issues of late, giving him that could be a concern.

They also have a chance at drafting his replacement with a high pick this year. Gortat would be a good starter until that player is ready to go, or a valuable backup under the new cap, and would be set to expire by the time said draft pick is up for extension.

Well if he has some mental issues, why the f-ck would we want him? No way John Wall wants to play with that slow 7-2 giant.

[verbal8]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/561745188490838016[/tweet]

I think this is worth keeping an eye on. If the rockets start hemorrhaging losses we may be able to get some value for Seraphin out of them, although I'm sure Morey would prefer Blair, as he is actually a good player.

I wonder if they play Josh Smith some as a small ball Center.

They are good players, but I think one of Blair or Humphries can be dealt. Although of course I would prefer to deal Seraphin.

[gambitx777]

I think we need to make more than one trade, We need a back up PG, a upgraded big or two, maybe a shooter.

I feel like it would be smart to make a play for an Ed Davis or a J.J. Hickson and move NENE to the bench to back up center. Ed davis and J.J. Hickson would be amazing ! As for guards I think Shved would be a good fit here or Donald Sloan. we need to do it fast before we start losing more games.