Trade Targets (postcript on yesterday-other teams)

[M-C-G]

If I could get the Kings #1, I'd pack Knight's bags for him.

The Kings will be in the lottery this year.

Top 3 protected would be fine.

That's huge value and gives us the ability to have 2 1sts and Jabari/Inglis coming in essentially as "rookies" next year.

Remember...#OwnTheFuture.

And what part of a 23yr old PG who is trending forward is not #OwnTheFuture.....

23 is the new 33, didn't you get the memo?

[Giannis Parker]

If I could get the Kings #1, I'd pack Knight's bags for him.

The Kings will be in the lottery this year.

Top 3 protected would be fine.

That's huge value and gives us the ability to have 2 1sts and Jabari/Inglis coming in essentially as "rookies" next year.

Remember...#OwnTheFuture.

And what part of a 23yr old PG who is trending forward is not #OwnTheFuture.....

23 is the new 33, didn't you get the memo?

I missed that one, thanks for passing it along

[ampd]

If we are holding that Clips pick for a game changer, I am not holding my breathe at all.

Not many guards in the league impact the game, think Lawson is proving he himself does not impact the game much this season as well. Impact players typically play the 3 or the 4, and I believe we have that with Giannis and Jabari. The next closest thing I see to being an impact player would be to make a move for Pekovic as he is a straight up beast down low, but the injuries are a real concern.

Pekovic is too expensive and plays no defense. He's a rich man's Miroslav I don't think he's a good fit for our offense either.

It's pretty likely that a year or two from now we're going to be looking at our roster in terms of building a contender, and having an extra 1st to package to get a trade over the top for a final piece type guy could be a real asset.

[TroyD92]

If we are holding that Clips pick for a game changer, I am not holding my breathe at all.

Not many guards in the league impact the game, think Lawson is proving he himself does not impact the game much this season as well. Impact players typically play the 3 or the 4, and I believe we have that with Giannis and Jabari. The next closest thing I see to being an impact player would be to make a move for Pekovic as he is a straight up beast down low, but the injuries are a real concern.

Pekovic is too expensive and plays no defense. He's a rich man's Miroslav I don't think he's a good fit for our offense either.

It's pretty likely that a year or two from now we're going to be looking at our roster in terms of building a contender, and having an extra 1st to package to get a trade over the top for a final piece type guy could be a real asset.

Especially now that it looks like the Clippers might implode in the next year or two.

[Newz]

If I could get the Kings #1, I'd pack Knight's bags for him.

The Kings will be in the lottery this year.

Top 3 protected would be fine.

That's huge value and gives us the ability to have 2 1sts and Jabari/Inglis coming in essentially as "rookies" next year.

Remember...#OwnTheFuture.

And what part of a 23yr old PG who is trending forward is not #OwnTheFuture.....

23 is the new 33, didn't you get the memo?

I personally wouldn't give Knight $12+ million. I think he's a good player and I think we'll be able to retain him for a lesser dollar amount. I just don't think that the market is going to be that big for him with the teams that have cap room. I don't think that franchises like the Knicks (with Phil in charge) or the Lakers are that interested in guys like Knight... who even at his best isn't a superstar. Phil and the Lakers are smart enough to know they need guys like Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Pippen, etc. to win titles before they start worrying about acquiring guys like Knight... especially on big deals. MAYBE the Mavericks go after him if they lose Rondo. Their window is closing quick as Dirk is getting very old.

But I just don't see Knight as worth that much... and again, I do like him as a player. He is a great spot up shooter, he is pretty good in isolation scenarios and he's a solid defender. He is a very good athlete as well. I think he is the ideal fit as a 6th man or as a PG/SG who can play along another guy capable of being the primary ball handler.

Knight struggles on the PnR though, he struggles running the break, he often doesn't make basic passes in the half court that get the offense going and he isn't that great at hitting his jumper off the bounce (though he has made some big ones in isolation at the end of games this year).

I dunno, he could end up being worth more than $12+ million. I just think the odds are very slim that he would ever actually outperform that contract. There would be decent odds that he could live up to it or be close to it... but I think the odds would actually be in favor of him falling a bit short.

He's a quality player and a quality piece. I just wouldn't want to pay him like he's a franchise cornerstone... especially because the PG position is loaded and easily has the deepest talent pool of any position in the NBA.

[RayRayJones]

One person brought it up, seemingly for attention.

My suggestion was Job for Bass straight up, and that makes a lot of sense. I know people think JoB can possible contribute in the future, but I doubt it. Would rather make a small win now move and clear up the cap space and roster spot moving forward.

I didn't suggest anything for attention and it seems rather blasphemous coming from you.

At any rate, I view JOB as fodder. It's a pipe dream to even consider Ainge moving Bass for JOB. Phoenix, Portland, and the Clippers all have interest in Bass and will certainly offer more than JOB. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Clips offer Ainge a first rounder for him to fill in for Blake and give them front court depth beyond Spencer Hawes. It's a desperate move and one befitting Doc but I could see it happening.

Side note..can Doc even trade with the Celtics?

[M-C-G]

And what part of a 23yr old PG who is trending forward is not #OwnTheFuture.....

23 is the new 33, didn't you get the memo?

I personally wouldn't give Knight $12+ million. I think he's a good player and I think we'll be able to retain him for a lesser dollar amount. I just don't think that the market is going to be that big for him with the teams that have cap room. I don't think that franchises like the Knicks (with Phil in charge) or the Lakers are that interested in guys like Knight... who even at his best isn't a superstar. Phil and the Lakers are smart enough to know they need guys like Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Pippen, etc. to win titles before they start worrying about acquiring guys like Knight... especially on big deals. MAYBE the Mavericks go after him if they lose Rondo. Their window is closing quick as Dirk is getting very old.

But I just don't see Knight as worth that much... and again, I do like him as a player. He is a great spot up shooter, he is pretty good in isolation scenarios and he's a solid defender. He is a very good athlete as well. I think he is the ideal fit as a 6th man or as a PG/SG who can play along another guy capable of being the primary ball handler.

Knight struggles on the PnR though, he struggles running the break, he often doesn't make basic passes in the half court that get the offense going and he isn't that great at hitting his jumper off the bounce (though he has made some big ones in isolation at the end of games this year).

I dunno, he could end up being worth more than $12+ million. I just think the odds are very slim that he would ever actually outperform that contract. There would be decent odds that he could live up to it or be close to it... but I think the odds would actually be in favor of him falling a bit short.

He's a quality player and a quality piece. I just wouldn't want to pay him like he's a franchise cornerstone... especially because the PG position is loaded and easily has the deepest talent pool of any position in the NBA.

All fair concerns and opinions. I'm trying to get past the point of convincing people on Knight and just waiting to see how it plays out. I won't begrudge anyone for not wanting to sign him to a 12M per year, I totally get it. I just expect that it is going to happen, and for people that don't like Knight at 3.5M per year, they are really going to hate him at 12M per year.

If he could bring back something legit in a trade, I could get behind that, but swapping picks or a deal where Stauskas is the primary piece coming back, that just doesn't make sense to me. We are obviously going to try and get the best seed we can vs best draft pick, so I can't see a realistic trade that makes sense right now (though I was interested in a deal that brought back DMo and the pelican 1st but that ship has long since sailed).

[paulpressey25]

Especially now that it looks like the Clippers might implode in the next year or two.

As I posted yesterday, the Bucks need to figure out what they think of that Clips pick. If Blake, CP3 and DeAndre hang together for the 2016-17 season, and say finish with 52 wins the 6th seed out west, we are ok and that pick should be about 20-24.

However, if they implode and miss the playoffs, the pick we get is completely lotto protected for three straight years before it turns into two second rounders in 2020 and 2021.

We need the Clips to make the playoffs in the tough West in 2016-17, no questions asked. Given that the Clips imploding actually jeopardizes that pick, I have no problem dealing it now. It can't ever turn into a lotto pick.

[Newz]

All fair concerns and opinions. I'm trying to get past the point of convincing people on Knight and just waiting to see how it plays out. I won't begrudge anyone for not wanting to sign him to a 12M per year, I totally get it. I just expect that it is going to happen, and for people that don't like Knight at 3.5M per year, they are really going to hate him at 12M per year.

If he could bring back something legit in a trade, I could get behind that, but swapping picks or a deal where Stauskas is the primary piece coming back, that just doesn't make sense to me. We are obviously going to try and get the best seed we can vs best draft pick, so I can't see a realistic trade that makes sense right now (though I was interested in a deal that brought back DMo and the pelican 1st but that ship has long since sailed).

I am willing to admit that if someone gives him something like 4 years, $56 million and we let him go... that I think there is a chance he turns into Billups and we look super stupid for not giving him the money. I don't think the odds of that happening are very high, but Knight is a gifted player and he has made a pretty big jump this year.

If he can get the mental aspect of playing PG down, if he can stop turning the ball over at such a high rate and if he can start making the easy plays on a consistent basis then he's going to be a top 10 PG.

[LUKE23]

I wouldn't be moving the Clippers pick. One of Paul/Griffin is a good bet to go down for an extended period two years from now, IMO.

[Giannis Parker]

All fair concerns and opinions. I'm trying to get past the point of convincing people on Knight and just waiting to see how it plays out. I won't begrudge anyone for not wanting to sign him to a 12M per year, I totally get it. I just expect that it is going to happen, and for people that don't like Knight at 3.5M per year, they are really going to hate him at 12M per year.

If he could bring back something legit in a trade, I could get behind that, but swapping picks or a deal where Stauskas is the primary piece coming back, that just doesn't make sense to me. We are obviously going to try and get the best seed we can vs best draft pick, so I can't see a realistic trade that makes sense right now (though I was interested in a deal that brought back DMo and the pelican 1st but that ship has long since sailed).

This is where I am as well. I like how we look at the 3 and the 4 moving forward (especially still having the intrigue about Inglis as a possible 3rd forward with high potential). I also like how well Middleton fits at the 2 next to Giannis and Knight. I feel Knight is a perfect 3rd fiddle for any winning team in the league, but if Knight was packaged for a guy worthy of being a 2nd fiddle, that is something I can get behind.

I think the list of players of that caliber is quite small however, in all honesty, cannot think of any whom are available off the top of my head. The thing I fear about a sideways move for someone like Lawson ( I know most of you feel otherwise, but Knight really is on the same level, maybe higher when you factor age) is the chemistry. Knight and Giannis as a duo started off on a rough patch, but the last 10-15 games they have seemingly been in a perfect rhythm together. If we make a sideways Knight trade, or decide to take back two lesser pieces to help with depth (something like Knight for Burke and Kanter has been discussed on this thread), I would rather make that move in the offseason as opposed to now when we are in a prime push and a realistic candidate to be a 2nd round team in the playoffs.

[ReasonablySober]

I wouldn't be moving the Clippers pick. One of Paul/Griffin is a good bet to go down for an extended period two years from now, IMO.

But it's lotto protected until it becomes 2nd rounders, like PP said. We don't want to see LAC implode.

[Giannis Parker]

I am willing to admit that if someone gives him something like 4 years, $56 million and we let him go... that I think there is a chance he turns into Billups and we look super stupid for not giving him the money. I don't think the odds of that happening are very high, but Knight is a gifted player and he has made a pretty big jump this year.

If he can get the mental aspect of playing PG down, if he can stop turning the ball over at such a high rate and if he can start making the easy plays on a consistent basis then he's going to be a top 10 PG.

I like this post, and agree with the premise. I would challenge you with the turnover fact just a bit however. Would you not agree that if Giannis and Parker become efficient 16-20ppg guys along with Middleton being a 14ppg guy that the turnovers will very likely figure themselves out?

I feel that is the biggest question. I personally feel that the turnovers are being highly overrated in terms of Knights play because look at what we have in terms of play making around him. I feel that as Middleton, Giannis, and Parker develop into more efficient scorers that the turnovers will adjust themselves.

However, if you truly feel that better talent around Knight has no effect on his A/To ratio, then I can get where a lot of you are coming from and why you are worried about a potential overpay.

[LUKE23]

I don't think they implode that bad, just saying I could see them being a late playoff team.

[deuceBB]

You might be able to get the Pelicans #1 this year (owned by Rockets) in a Knight trade.

[Giannis Parker]

You might be able to get the Pelicans #1 this year (owned by Rockets) in a Knight trade.

Which is even worse than the proposed Knight to the Kings for Thompson and a swap of 2015 1sts.

If Knight were in this draft right now, the only player at guard ahead of him is Mudiay, and it really is not close after that as I think Knight is on that same level.

The only game changing talent in this draft is Okafor. After that there appears to be maybe 3-4 potential All-Stars, and the rest after that is a major question mark.

[CanadaBucks]

I wouldn't be moving the Clippers pick. One of Paul/Griffin is a good bet to go down for an extended period two years from now, IMO.

But it's lotto protected until it becomes 2nd rounders, like PP said. We don't want to see LAC implode.

demi-implode?

[SkilesTheLimit]

You might be able to get the Pelicans #1 this year (owned by Rockets) in a Knight trade.

Which is even worse than the proposed Knight to the Kings for Thompson and a swap of 2015 1sts.

If Knight were in this draft right now, the only player at guard ahead of him is Mudiay, and it really is not close after that as I think Knight is on that same level.

The only game changing talent in this draft is Okafor. After that there appears to be maybe 3-4 potential All-Stars, and the rest after that is a major question mark.

Knight at $12-13M per year as a flawed "PG" is ludicrous. Any scenario where Brandon Knight makes more than Steph Curry is asinine.

You mention 2 players that you'd take ahead of BK in this draft. Ok, I'm saying, I'd rather have Pick #7 (where SAC currently stands) and NOT pay Knight $12-13M. It's all about how you weigh his "value."

[Newz]

I am willing to admit that if someone gives him something like 4 years, $56 million and we let him go... that I think there is a chance he turns into Billups and we look super stupid for not giving him the money. I don't think the odds of that happening are very high, but Knight is a gifted player and he has made a pretty big jump this year.

If he can get the mental aspect of playing PG down, if he can stop turning the ball over at such a high rate and if he can start making the easy plays on a consistent basis then he's going to be a top 10 PG.

I like this post, and agree with the premise. I would challenge you with the turnover fact just a bit however. Would you not agree that if Giannis and Parker become efficient 16-20ppg guys along with Middleton being a 14ppg guy that the turnovers will very likely figure themselves out?

I feel that is the biggest question. I personally feel that the turnovers are being highly overrated in terms of Knights play because look at what we have in terms of play making around him. I feel that as Middleton, Giannis, and Parker develop into more efficient scorers that the turnovers will adjust themselves.

However, if you truly feel that better talent around Knight has no effect on his A/To ratio, then I can get where a lot of you are coming from and why you are worried about a potential overpay.

Maybe superior talent fixes it and such. A lot of Knight's turnovers I see are just him making boneheaded plays though. Yeah, that could be contributed to youth as well and perhaps he just grows out of it. But there are times when he'll just dribble with his head down or he'll leave his feet for no apparently reason and then have to chuck the ball in a random direction hoping something good comes out of it. On the break sometimes he'll have a guy open and just miss him... or he'll throw a wild pass when it should be a simple play.

The ideal, in my opinion, is that Giannis and Jabari are so good they are initiating most of the isolation sets for the team. Knight and Middleton would primarily be spacers and then when Giannis and/or Jabari is out of the game Knight can step up and score the ball more.

I have no doubt Knight could become a top 10 PG. Maybe he could even be a top 5 PG if it REALLY clicks for him like it did for Chauncy after a while. It's just how much of a risk are you willing to take on that? How much do you think he's worth if he stays what he is or regresses a bit?

For me I'd bank about $9-$11 million a year tops on it. Some people might be willing to go above that and I think that's fine. He is still only 23, there is a chance the light goes on and he turns into an excellent point guard.

The good part about Knight though is that I doubt he's ever just a total bust of a contract like Sanders has become or guys like Gadzuric were (unless he gets hurt, obviously). Knight should always at least have a role as a dynamic bench scorer.

[ReasonablySober]

It seems like Billups is the go-to for people hoping Knight figures it out. Is there another example out there of a point guard (or primary ball handler if you'd rather not use that designation) that was incapable of running simple pick and rolls who all of the sudden figured it out five years into the league? Honest question. There could be fifty examples, I'm just having a hard time coming up with any.