Trade Targets (postcript on yesterday-other teams)

[Baddy Chuck]

34 year old David West would be a cool addition 4 years from now.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

trading a #1 for david west is too win nowish for me to get behind. there has to be a better target than him if were gonna put a pick on the table.... even that pick.

[ampd]

GoS,

RS was asking a very specific question about PGs struggling with the PnR. I don't really Conley ever really having an issue with actually just running the point and distributing. I cannot recall Lowry having those issues either... but maybe they did. Lowry is definitely a guy who I think was underrated and finally started to get the credit he deserved recently. Lowry was even pretty damn good in Houston.

The amount knight struggles with the pick and roll is vastly overstated on this board.

The narrative that he won't accept less ball handling and is some me first selfish diva is completely baseless and frankly stupid. He's accepted an evolving role with us and played sg in detroit. The kid seems very focused on team success and seemingly every coach and teammate of his going back to college has gone out of their way to praise his work ethic and character. only here would a teams pg saying in an interview that he is a pg somehow be remotely controversial.

Even Stephen curry had all sorts of problems at pg earlier in his career. It's a big part of why they were able to extend him at the contract they did rather than at the max.

[ReasonablySober]

I'd to Ersan, JOB & the Clippers 1st to Indy for David West.

Why are we giving up a 1st for a 34 year old?

Because he gives us a better shot at winning a playoff series & the pick isn't guaranteed. Also expires after the 15/16 season. West has a lot of game left.

He's got a player option, and my guess is he'd be exercising it this summer.

[ampd]

trading a #1 for david west is too win nowish for me to get behind. there has to be a better target than him if were gonna put a pick on the table.... even that pick.

We've been pretty good but I don't think we're good enough to justify that type of trade this season

[ReasonablySober]

GoS,

RS was asking a very specific question about PGs struggling with the PnR. I don't really Conley ever really having an issue with actually just running the point and distributing. I cannot recall Lowry having those issues either... but maybe they did. Lowry is definitely a guy who I think was underrated and finally started to get the credit he deserved recently. Lowry was even pretty damn good in Houston.

The amount knight struggles with the pick and roll is vastly overstated on this board.

The narrative that he won't accept less ball handling and is some me first selfish diva is completely baseless and frankly stupid. He's accepted an evolving role with us and played sg in detroit. The kid seems very focused on team success and seemingly every coach and teammate of his going back to college has gone out of their way to praise his work ethic and character. only here would a teams pg saying in an interview that he is a pg somehow be remotely controversial.

Even Stephen curry had all sorts of problems at pg earlier in his career. It's a big part of why they were able to extend him at the contract they did rather than at the max.

If anything I think it's understated when you consider the importance of the pick and roll across the league.

His P&R numbers are less impressive: Knight is slightly above average as a P&R scorer (55th percentile) but below average in terms of secondary offense, i.e. how effective his teammates are when his passes lead to a shot, turnover or foul (30th percentile). Interestingly, Knight's actually been marginally worse as both a P&R scorer and iso scorer this season compared to last, but his perimeter shooting has more than compensated overall. The reversal in those numbers from last year (improved off the ball numbers, declining "on ball" numbers) provides support to the notion of playing Knight with another ballhandler who can at a minimum share initiating duties.

[randy84]

GoS,

RS was asking a very specific question about PGs struggling with the PnR. I don't really Conley ever really having an issue with actually just running the point and distributing. I cannot recall Lowry having those issues either... but maybe they did. Lowry is definitely a guy who I think was underrated and finally started to get the credit he deserved recently. Lowry was even pretty damn good in Houston.

The amount knight struggles with the pick and roll is vastly overstated on this board.

The narrative that he won't accept less ball handling and is some me first selfish diva is completely baseless and frankly stupid. He's accepted an evolving role with us and played sg in detroit. The kid seems very focused on team success and seemingly every coach and teammate of his going back to college has gone out of their way to praise his work ethic and character. only here would a teams pg saying in an interview that he is a pg somehow be remotely controversial.

Even Stephen curry had all sorts of problems at pg earlier in his career. It's a big part of why they were able to extend him at the contract they did rather than at the max.

If anything I think it's understated when you consider the importance of the pick and roll across the league.

His P&R numbers are less impressive: Knight is slightly above average as a P&R scorer (55th percentile) but below average in terms of secondary offense, i.e. how effective his teammates are when his passes lead to a shot, turnover or foul (30th percentile). Interestingly, Knight's actually been marginally worse as both a P&R scorer and iso scorer this season compared to last, but his perimeter shooting has more than compensated overall. The reversal in those numbers from last year (improved off the ball numbers, declining "on ball" numbers) provides support to the notion of playing Knight with another ballhandler who can at a minimum share initiating duties.

So isn't he ideal then to pair with Giannis "who can at a minimum share initiating duties"?

[ampd]

GoS,

RS was asking a very specific question about PGs struggling with the PnR. I don't really Conley ever really having an issue with actually just running the point and distributing. I cannot recall Lowry having those issues either... but maybe they did. Lowry is definitely a guy who I think was underrated and finally started to get the credit he deserved recently. Lowry was even pretty damn good in Houston.

The amount knight struggles with the pick and roll is vastly overstated on this board.

The narrative that he won't accept less ball handling and is some me first selfish diva is completely baseless and frankly stupid. He's accepted an evolving role with us and played sg in detroit. The kid seems very focused on team success and seemingly every coach and teammate of his going back to college has gone out of their way to praise his work ethic and character. only here would a teams pg saying in an interview that he is a pg somehow be remotely controversial.

Even Stephen curry had all sorts of problems at pg earlier in his career. It's a big part of why they were able to extend him at the contract they did rather than at the max.

If anything I think it's understated when you consider the importance of the pick and roll across the league.

His P&R numbers are less impressive: Knight is slightly above average as a P&R scorer (55th percentile) but below average in terms of secondary offense, i.e. how effective his teammates are when his passes lead to a shot, turnover or foul (30th percentile). Interestingly, Knight's actually been marginally worse as both a P&R scorer and iso scorer this season compared to last, but his perimeter shooting has more than compensated overall. The reversal in those numbers from last year (improved off the ball numbers, declining "on ball" numbers) provides support to the notion of playing Knight with another ballhandler who can at a minimum share initiating duties.

being above average scoring himself and 30th percentile as a team when he passes in the pick and roll aren't the same as being unable to make basic passes.

how much of that number is due to turnovers? How many of those turnivers are bad passes vs our frying pan hands bigs fumbling the ball? How much is guys like Zaza and larry who have been way worse than average finishing at the rim?

I've seen knight make basic pick and roll passes many many times. He's not nearly as bad at it as the hyperbole that gets thrown around here.

[ReasonablySober]

The amount knight struggles with the pick and roll is vastly overstated on this board.

The narrative that he won't accept less ball handling and is some me first selfish diva is completely baseless and frankly stupid. He's accepted an evolving role with us and played sg in detroit. The kid seems very focused on team success and seemingly every coach and teammate of his going back to college has gone out of their way to praise his work ethic and character. only here would a teams pg saying in an interview that he is a pg somehow be remotely controversial.

Even Stephen curry had all sorts of problems at pg earlier in his career. It's a big part of why they were able to extend him at the contract they did rather than at the max.

If anything I think it's understated when you consider the importance of the pick and roll across the league.

His P&R numbers are less impressive: Knight is slightly above average as a P&R scorer (55th percentile) but below average in terms of secondary offense, i.e. how effective his teammates are when his passes lead to a shot, turnover or foul (30th percentile). Interestingly, Knight's actually been marginally worse as both a P&R scorer and iso scorer this season compared to last, but his perimeter shooting has more than compensated overall. The reversal in those numbers from last year (improved off the ball numbers, declining "on ball" numbers) provides support to the notion of playing Knight with another ballhandler who can at a minimum share initiating duties.

So isn't he ideal then to pair with Giannis "who can at a minimum share initiating duties"?

There's a version of Knight that would be ideal:

He'd be a corner three point shooting killer when Parker and Giannis are in the half-court. He'd trail on fast breaks because he's a good rebounding guard and leave the transition playmaking to the two forwards. He's the instant offense late in possessions. And he's probably making $8 mil a season.

[Newz]

So isn't he ideal then to pair with Giannis "who can at a minimum share initiating duties"?

Isn't that what most people are saying? If Giannis and Jabari can be guys who should have the ball on most possessions and can distribute... Knight should be ideal as a floor spacer who can help carry the offense when they aren't in the game. But they would also ask that he cut down his isolation play and reduce his turnovers/improve his assist/TO ratio.

And if he is a guy who are mostly going to be playing off of the ball to stretch the floor and not create a ton for his teammates... then is he worth $12 million? You can get a guard who can shoot jumpers at a high clip for a much cheaper cost than that if you don't need them to create much offense.

[MilHammer]

Would Knight accept a more passive role, especially after he has become the go-to guy at the end of games? I think if Knight signs a long-term deal with the Bucks he will consider himself the primary building block on the team. Do we have some good examples of players that had been 'the man' who subsequently accepted smaller roles on teams?

Knight def pads his stats and tries to get his, but it seems like Kidd/management are high on him, character wise. If he truly is a high character guy and really wants to win, then I think he will accept a smaller role. I don't even know how much more diminished itd be. Obviously a lot more than now, but ideally the starting 5 would be something like the Spurs/Hawks model, and Knight would still be an integral part of the rotation.

Also, are you Turkish? Currently studying abroad in Istanbul. I live in Ortaköy.

Not Turkish but have lived here for 12 years and am married to a Turk. Ortakoy? Damn, I live and teach in Arnavutkoy, 15m on foot to the north. We'll have to get together sometime and have some Cengelkoy spinach borek or some golden Efes in Besiktas at a fish meyhane.

I got here a few weeks ago, but I already love borek and I love Besiktas. Message me man.

[ampd]

So isn't he ideal then to pair with Giannis "who can at a minimum share initiating duties"?

Isn't that what most people are saying? If Giannis and Jabari can be guys who should have the ball on most possessions and can distribute... Knight should be ideal as a floor spacer who can help carry the offense when they aren't in the game. But they would also ask that he cut down his isolation play and reduce his turnovers/improve his assist/TO ratio.

And if he is a guy who are mostly going to be playing off of the ball to stretch the floor and not create a ton for his teammates... then is he worth $12 million? You can get a guard who can shoot jumpers at a high clip for a much cheaper cost than that if you don't need them to create much offense.

I think his role cam be quite a bit bigger than what you are implying here. you are describing Mario Chalmers on the lebron heat. Knight can be a lot bigger part of the offense than that while still sharing more of the ball handling than he does now.

[imithanos]

I've seen knight make basic pick and roll passes many many times. He's not nearly as bad at it as the hyperbole that gets thrown around here.

Where????????? I remember just one in the last month!! Not joking..

And if he is a guy who are mostly going to be playing off of the ball to stretch the floor and not create a ton for his teammates... then is he worth $12 million? You can get a guard who can shoot jumpers at a high clip for a much cheaper cost than that if you don't need them to create much offense.

You have a better shooter than BK for this role and his name is Khris.

PS. In order not being off-topic, Gobert for BK.
inb4 not gonna happen.

[AussieBuck]

I guess people aren't very high on the Parker/Giannis/Middleton trio as scorers if they want Knight in any significant role going forward or they've forgotten there is only one ball. Given me that Pelicans pick or a swap with the Kings all day.

[Giannis Parker]

I guess people aren't very high on the Parker/Giannis/Middleton trio as scorers if they want Knight in any significant role going forward or they've forgotten there is only one ball. Given me that Pelicans pick or a swap with the Kings all day.

Knight/Middleton/Parker/Giannis/??????

Knight does nothing to diminish those around him from being scorers. Look at the #'s since Middleton has been a starter, they do not lie.

[randy84]

So isn't he ideal then to pair with Giannis "who can at a minimum share initiating duties"?

Isn't that what most people are saying? If Giannis and Jabari can be guys who should have the ball on most possessions and can distribute... Knight should be ideal as a floor spacer who can help carry the offense when they aren't in the game. But they would also ask that he cut down his isolation play and reduce his turnovers/improve his assist/TO ratio.

And if he is a guy who are mostly going to be playing off of the ball to stretch the floor and not create a ton for his teammates... then is he worth $12 million? You can get a guard who can shoot jumpers at a high clip for a much cheaper cost than that if you don't need them to create much offense.

If you are going with the Big "3" model, then you need someone to take the pressure off Jabari and Giannis. I think B Knight can evolve his game once Giannis and Jabari are really to take those steps. Giannis is getting there, where he can have the ball in his hands much more, but Jabari is wait and see at this point.

[AussieBuck]

I guess people aren't very high on the Parker/Giannis/Middleton trio as scorers if they want Knight in any significant role going forward or they've forgotten there is only one ball. Given me that Pelicans pick or a swap with the Kings all day.

Knight/Middleton/Parker/Giannis/??????

Knight does nothing to diminish those around him from being scorers. Look at the #'s since Middleton has been a starter, they do not lie.

lol. Parker/Giannis/Middleton are going to be a 70+ USG trio. We need a role playing distributor with them not a head down gunner. One ball.

[mlloyd10]

Can we turn this back into the trade thread and not about Knight? He has his own thread

[Giannis Parker]

I guess people aren't very high on the Parker/Giannis/Middleton trio as scorers if they want Knight in any significant role going forward or they've forgotten there is only one ball. Given me that Pelicans pick or a swap with the Kings all day.

Knight/Middleton/Parker/Giannis/??????

Knight does nothing to diminish those around him from being scorers. Look at the #'s since Middleton has been a starter, they do not lie.

lol. Parker/Giannis/Middleton are going to be a 70+ USG trio. We need a role playing distributor with them not a head down gunner. One ball.

Knight has not been this player you speak of for almost a month now, do you really ever watch the games man......your bias is strong!

We need a Center to become a legit threat for the next 5-6 seasons. For the first time ever we are set at 4 of 5 positions, and yet people like you cannot be happy, makes me sick man, makes me sick

[M-C-G]

Can we turn this back into the trade thread and not about Knight? He has his own thread

Oh JTK, can I? Can I? Can I????