Trade Targets (postcript on yesterday-other teams)

[M-C-G]

curious what the board thinks of Kosta Koufos. He's an unrestricted FA after the season and I can't see Memphis being able to keep him if they pay Gasol. While older than Kanter, I think he'd fit into what the Bucks are doing better than Kanter would.

I'd rather wait to sign him after the season then trade for Kanter.

He is about 5th on my list of options, but to be fair there isn't a ton of separation;

1. DMo - now unattainable
2. Kanter - I think he will be available for a reasonable cost
3. O'Quinn
4. Monroe
5. Koufos

That list is very much in flux, but as I mentioned before, the FA Center market is absolutely flooded this offseason, and someone is going to be locked into a very reasonable deal...I think that guy is Koufos, and would be glad to have him.

[mlloyd10]

Looking at WT,

Suns - too many guards need scoring and rebounding big man
Jazz - unhappy big man that scores and rebounds

Kanter/Burke for Ennis/Plumlee/Green??

Dont see how that help either - Suns will get another guard that needs minutes

Llyod, totally disagree. Burke hasn't done anything to really suggest he deserves minutes, any more than JOB (unless Burke has picked it up as late)...He is in the deal as a cheap controllable asset.

We already know PHX has been shopping Green and Plumlee, the Ennis<>Burke swap just adds some extra incentive for Utah to do the deal.

That futhers my point - If it was IT instead of Ennis, that would make more sense. Suns would still have IT/Bledsoe/Dragic in your deal

[GoldenAntlers]

I have no interest in overpaid, overrated, injury prone players in general. so me not wanting ricky Rubio isn't personal.

This is how I feel as well.

In terms of our starting 5. If (big if) Larry becomes dependable, I am curious who thinks we actually already have our core and that from here on, the trades we should be seeking are role player types?

Knight
Middleton
Parker
Giannis
Sanders

Personally, I'm all for it (again with the big IF.)

[M-C-G]

Dont see how that help either - Suns will get another guard that needs minutes

Llyod, totally disagree. Burke hasn't done anything to really suggest he deserves minutes, any more than JOB (unless Burke has picked it up as late)...He is in the deal as a cheap controllable asset.

We already know PHX has been shopping Green and Plumlee, the Ennis<>Burke swap just adds some extra incentive for Utah to do the deal.

That futhers my point - If it was IT instead of Ennis, that would make more sense. Suns would still have IT/Bledsoe/Dragic in your deal

Not sure that Utah would have any interest in IT but I suppose if they did;

PHX IN: Kanter, Booker (expires next year), Evans (exp)
UTH IN: Green (exp), IT, Plumlee

Either way, I think they could be good trading partners given the situation.

[SpursNBucks]

I like DH34Fan's proposal of Henson and the Clip's first for Kanter. That sounds rich on our end, but that Clips pick will likely be very average, and (though underwhelming to this point) young, mobile, bigs that can shoot don't ever come cheap. Kidd likes to run stuff where Zaza is screening and passing out of the high post, and Kanter has the range to really excel in that role. Obviously he is a terrible passer as of right now. So a lot of incentive for a move like this is to acquire versatile talent which you hope you can develop.

Henson's a better player, imo. His per minute stats are better, and he's a better defender.

Agreed.

We're giving up the pick, the more useful young talent and the one with another year on their contract to figure out if an extension is worth it.

If anything Utah should be the team giving up another asset in a Kanter/Henson deal.

I think Kanter for Henson is pretty even trade. Henson having one more year on his rookie contract makes a difference. Both right now are best as backup Centers- they have different upsides. Kanter is 2 years younger, isn't going to get pushed around, and has a better shot. Henson is a better rim protector, and a more efficient scorer. When I watch Kanter I see a young Pachilia type.

Pick your poison. I would be OK with an even up deal. They may have to add something with Kanter with him asking for a trade.

[Treebeard]

(Henson), I dislike him defensively too as he gets thrown around too much in the post and doesn't rebound very well.

Watching him last night ties to your point above. He really struggled with Cousins (who doesn't though). Thompson was a challenge for him too. Henson really should have fouled out by the early 4th for all of the pushing, shoving, leaning he did, especially against Cousins. I think he was saved by the fact that he absolutely didn't budge Cousins at all, was all that prevented additional fouls.

While Zaza can't run or jump as well anymore, he at least can hold his position - more often - against the bigger C's

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I have no interest in overpaid, overrated, injury prone players in general. so me not wanting ricky Rubio isn't personal.

This is how I feel as well.

In terms of our starting 5. If (big if) Larry becomes dependable, I am curious who thinks we actually already have our core and that from here on, the trades we should be seeking are role player types?

Knight
Middleton
Parker
Giannis
Sanders

Personally, I'm all for it (again with the big IF.)

even if sanders becomes dependable Henson is a better player and fit imo. on my team sanders would be an energy backup.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

, I dislike him defensively too as he gets thrown around too much in the post and doesn't rebound very well.

Watching him last night ties to your point above. He really struggled with Cousins (who doesn't though). Thompson was a challenge for him too. Henson really should have fouled out by the early 4th for all of the pushing, shoving, leaning he did, especially against Cousins. I think he was saved by the fact that he absolutely didn't budge Cousins at all, was all that prevented additional fouls.

While Zaza can't run or jump as well anymore, he at least can hold his position - more often - against the bigger C's

sanders would have struggled physically there just as much.... not to mention he would have been committing fouls at twice the rate as Henson, would have potentially picked up 2 techs instead of one, passed and finished worse, missed a jumper or 2, and wouldn't have hit his ft's.

[ReasonablySober]

Henson's a better player, imo. His per minute stats are better, and he's a better defender.

Agreed.

We're giving up the pick, the more useful young talent and the one with another year on their contract to figure out if an extension is worth it.

If anything Utah should be the team giving up another asset in a Kanter/Henson deal.

I think Kanter for Henson is pretty even trade. Henson having one more year on his rookie contract makes a difference. Both right now are best as backup Centers- they have different upsides. Kanter is 2 years younger, isn't going to get pushed around, and has a better shot. Henson is a better rim protector, and a more efficient scorer. When I watch Kanter I see a young Pachilia type.

Pick your poison. I would be OK with an even up deal. They may have to add something with Kanter with him asking for a trade.

But the point is Kanter is a restricted free agent this summer. Are you willing to shell out eight figures for a guy if right now he's only a backup? Because if you're not then all you're doing is losing Henson and his cheap salary next year for 30 some odd games of backup center play.

[emunney]

The longer this drags out, the more I realize that his trade value is very low. Ersan for Kanter straight up might be a thing now.

My guess is people are talking to his agents about the kind of contract he wants and coming away unimpressed. He's worth nothing as a rental and if you're going to have to invest 40-50m to see if he's going to develop from 22-26 when he really hasn't done much from 19-22, my guess is you're going to put the money somewhere else and let a competitor take that bet.

[Treebeard]

, I dislike him defensively too as he gets thrown around too much in the post and doesn't rebound very well.

Watching him last night ties to your point above. He really struggled with Cousins (who doesn't though). Thompson was a challenge for him too. Henson really should have fouled out by the early 4th for all of the pushing, shoving, leaning he did, especially against Cousins. I think he was saved by the fact that he absolutely didn't budge Cousins at all, was all that prevented additional fouls.

While Zaza can't run or jump as well anymore, he at least can hold his position - more often - against the bigger C's

sanders would have struggled physically there just as much.... not to mention he would have been committing fouls at twice the rate as Henson, would have potentially picked up 2 techs instead of one, passed and finished worse, and wouldn't have hit his ft's.

Probably valid points. Last season-year before?, someone had proposed trading Larry to Sacremento and as I remember it, the standing joke was who would get tossed first from games.

Active, lighter-weight C's can do many things that the bigger guys sometimes can't. The reverse is also true. Right now, the Bucks have imperfect answers for either option. Henson does well in some areas, but has several limitations, and Zaza is a lot closer to the end of his career than his prime. Maybe Giannis, as he fills out in coming years? I think - right now - the starting/big minutes role is yet to be filled.

[emunney]

Also, if you want to trade for Kanter because of what Cousins does to us... have you ever seen that match-up? Kanter can't guard Cousins. Cousins bullies him the same way he bullies Henson. The only difference is that Kanter's easier to shoot over.

[M-C-G]

The longer this drags out, the more I realize that his trade value is very low. Ersan for Kanter straight up might be a thing now.

My guess is people are talking to his agents about the kind of contract he wants and coming away unimpressed. He's worth nothing as a rental and if you're going to have to invest 40-50m to see if he's going to develop from 22-26 when he really hasn't done much from 19-22, my guess is you're going to put the money somewhere else and let a competitor take that bet.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... tml?pg=all

I am not sure this is actually just about the contract

Kanter’s agent, fellow Turk Max Ergul, has been trying to get the 6-foot-11 big man traded from Utah for years, according to a source with knowledge on the subject.

Kanter's camp has “really turned up the heat” on Jazz management for a trade in recent weeks, the source added.

Either way, Kanter’s camp has never been pleased with the way the third pick of the 2011 draft has been used by the Jazz, and frustrations have only increased despite a welcomed coaching change.

[M-C-G]

I offer Ersan, JOB, Clippers 1st for Kanter (and if they want to throw in a guy like Booker, so be it).

Let him audition, if it doesn't feel right, let him take the QO, or see what you can get in a S&T. If nothing is there, let him walk, and you have basically only given up house money. Simple.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

sanders would have struggled physically there just as much.... not to mention he would have been committing fouls at twice the rate as Henson, would have potentially picked up 2 techs instead of one, passed and finished worse, and wouldn't have hit his ft's.

Probably valid points. Last season-year before?, someone had proposed trading Larry to Sacremento and as I remember it, the standing joke was who would get tossed first from games.

Active, lighter-weight C's can do many things that the bigger guys sometimes can't. The reverse is also true. Right now, the Bucks have imperfect answers for either option. Henson does well in some areas, but has several limitations, and Zaza is a lot closer to the end of his career than his prime. Maybe Giannis, as he fills out in coming years? I think - right now - the starting/big minutes role is yet to be filled.

I know this isn't a popular opinion... but I think our center position is fine for at least the next 3-4 years until zaza has to be phased out. the two of them tag teaming people is a not a weakness. its really an asset to me to be able to run them back and forth at guys. I think it wears other bigs down facing those alternating styles. one minute your trying to bull henson but worried about his reach. constantly worried about losing him on the roll and getting dunked on because he slipped you. then zaza comes in and wears you out physically. forces your game to change into a more of a faceup guy.... the minute you relax about him rolling and finishing on you... bang he hits a couple jumpers in your face. both guys can pass. both guys hit their fts. both guys play within themselves. both guys are great teammates.

and bottom line defensively is were a top defense, theres no issue with both these guys manning the position. this tandem is working... and neither of which are going to break the bank to keep them around. what we need is an answer at pf to match what we can do at center. right now Dudley/ersan/job is BY FAR the biggest problem we have. parker coming back will help a lot but imo were going to need a guy besides him who can give us something too. if we spend money on something shiny and new I want it to be on that. at center we can just stretch larry, keep what we got, and maybe pick up a 3rd guy to develop who can eventually replace zaza.

[Licensed to Il]

I agree with MCG. Though I like Ersan a lot as a player and appreciate his contributions to some bad Bucks teams, he is not in our future and I wouldn't hesitate to move him for a half season rental. If Enis starts to move the ball better in our system, and starts to display his mobility with better defensive effort, than we can enter in to a bigger contract with fewer reservations. If he is Darko-ish in his inability to accept his role and constantly thinking too highly of his own skills, then all it cost us was Ersan and maybe a 2nd rounder.

[raferfenix]

If we trade Ersan for cap relief would we be able to sign Koufos or the like this summer?

I don't trade the LAC pick unless we think we are getting a player for more than 30 games. But if we can drop Ersan for an expiring that might be preferable than shelling out assets for this year's run.

[Licensed to Il]

I am a huge fan of Koufos. Would be a great get in FA. Memphis might even be willing to deal him at the deadline as they are a legit contender this year.

[JayMKE]

I think it is better to wait until the offseason to go after a big man, this draft is pretty deep with them and there are a ton of guys including Kanter available in FA. Not to mention our situation with Sanders should be a lot clearer by then. Who wouldn't want to throw the max at Marc Gasol?

Now isn't the right time to shell out value in a big trade.

[Siefer]

I want nothing to do with Kanter. Kosta Koufos now...