Trade Targets (postcript on yesterday-other teams)

JustinCredible · Post #5561 » by **JustinCredible** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:56 pm

There is no question that Kanter is a bad individual defender. The question is: Does our team defensive system help him? Does he have a skillset that works in our system?

jakecronus8 · Post #5562 » by **jakecronus8** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:56 pm

I wish we could turn this proposed Kanter deal into a three way with Denver.

Something like
Bucks-Lawson, Hickson
Nugs-Kanter, Knight
Jazz-Ersan, 1st

M-C-G · Post #5563 » by **M-C-G** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:57 pm

DanoMac wrote:I love the posters that treat these discussions and proposals like we're actually in front offices, like trying to convince us to make a deal and getting mad.

Not really sure how that is any different than any discussion that occurs here. 90% of the posters here think they are smarter than any front office, and I don't recall a single thread on the board that didn't have people strongly defending one position against another.

Why not get excited about discussions around how to shape the future of the team?

Post #5564 » by **humanrefutation** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:58 pm

Is anyone here going to be disappointed if we stand pat at the deadline?

Cyrone Torbin · Post #5565 » by **Cyrone Torbin** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:58 pm

LUKE23 wrote:I don't think he complements the roster at all. He's a terrible passer and defender. The only positive aspect he brings is the ability to shoot a jumper as a big, which we really don't have at PF/C outside of Ersan (and he can't shoot either).

I would say he has been an average defender the last 2 months or so.

He is a terrible passer though, for sure. No arguing that.

He brings more than a jumper. He is an absolute monster on the offensive glass and is very good at finishing around the rim. He will probably score 4-6 points per game that the Bucks would never be able to score without him just because at how good he is at positioning himself for offensive rebounds around the rim. Honestly, he would probably put up at least 10 rebounds per game if given 28 minutes per game since the Bucks don't have any dominant rebounders. He gets 8 per game in Utah in 27 minutes, and that is while having to compete with Favors and Gobert for boards.

Ron Swanson · Post #5566 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:59 pm

Taking a detour from the 30 pages of Kanter discussion, the Raptors are apparently "listening" to offers for Terrence Ross. I think they could use Mayo's shooting. Mayo + JOB + 2017 Clips 1st for Ross + Fields would be something I'd float out there and see if they'd bite.

JustinCredible · Post #5567 » by **JustinCredible** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:59 pm

Cyrone Torbin wrote:
JustinCredible wrote:Looking at some advanced stats for Kanter and it is clear that he massively struggles as a PF and clearly should be playing his minutes as a center. Also, he added 3-point shooting this year. He had 1 attempt in each of his first 3 seasons. This year he has 41 attempts but just at 31% shooting. It seems that the Jazz have tried to develop him into a stretch 4. He is a bad stretch 4 and is terrible and guarding PFs. I think if he went to a team that groomed him to be a center he could become a great offensive asset, but would need some serious work still defensively.

So you are complaining that a guy who has never shot 3's is just shooting 31% in his first year of taking them?

He is much better at guarding 4's trust me. He was awful early in the season, mostly cuz his conditioning sucked because he was rehabbing a shoulder injury the entire off-season.

Calm down kid. I clearly outlined the fact that he just started shooting 3s and provided stats and facts....not complaining. Feel free to contribute here, but if you want take every post and spin it into a defensive argument then you are adding zero value. If only Kanter was as defensively gifted as your posts we'd possibly have a deal here.

Cyrone Torbin · Post #5568 » by **Cyrone Torbin** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:00 pm

JustinCredible wrote:There is no question that Kanter is a bad individual defender. The question is: Does our team defensive system help him? Does he have a skillset that works in our system?

Actually it's the complete opposite. I've actually seen him have spurts have above average individual defense often. His help defense is what he needs help with, pun intended.

JustinCredible · Post #5569 » by **JustinCredible** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:00 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Taking a detour from the 30 pages of Kanter discussion, the Raptors are apparently "listening" to offers for Terrence Ross. I think they could use Mayo's shooting. Mayo + JOB + 2017 Clips 1st for Ross + Fields would be something I'd float out there and see if they'd bite.

It was said many many pages back that the Raps are looking to trade Jonas and Ross for a legit star. We don't have what they want.

Perishable517 · Post #5570 » by **Perishable517** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:00 pm

Well, in thinking, is the Clips 1st fair value for getting a much needed healthy big on the team and shedding some salary for the off-season? I think so. He is by far better than Ers, JOB, and Martin who have been getting minutes. This move, if true, is for the playoff push more than next season and beyond. It doesn't matter to me if they sign him or not in the off season.

Cyrone Torbin · Post #5571 » by **Cyrone Torbin** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:00 pm

JustinCredible wrote:
Cyrone Torbin wrote:
JustinCredible wrote:Looking at some advanced stats for Kanter and it is clear that he massively struggles as a PF and clearly should be playing his minutes as a center. Also, he added 3-point shooting this year. He had 1 attempt in each of his first 3 seasons. This year he has 41 attempts but just at 31% shooting. It seems that the Jazz have tried to develop him into a stretch 4. He is a bad stretch 4 and is terrible and guarding PFs. I think if he went to a team that groomed him to be a center he could become a great offensive asset, but would need some serious work still defensively.

So you are complaining that a guy who has never shot 3's is just shooting 31% in his first year of taking them?

He is much better at guarding 4's trust me. He was awful early in the season, mostly cuz his conditioning sucked because he was rehabbing a shoulder injury the entire off-season.

Calm down kid. I clearly outlined the fact that he just started shooting 3s and provided stats and facts....not complaining. Feel free to contribute here, but if you want take every post and spin it into a defensive argument then you are adding zero value. If only Kanter was as defensively gifted as your posts we'd possibly have a deal here.

Just trying to do y'all a service in being positive about Kanter, he is going to be on your team by 3pm Eastern time tomorrow.

DanoMac · Post #5572 » by **DanoMac** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:01 pm

M-C-G wrote:
DanoMac wrote:I love the posters that treat these discussions and proposals like we're actually in front offices, like trying to convince us to make a deal and getting mad.

Not really sure how that is any different than any discussion that occurs here. 90% of the posters here think they are smarter than any front office, and I don't recall a single thread on the board that didn't have people strongly defending one position against another.

Why not get excited about discussions around how to shape the future of the team?

Haha, I think you took that comment way too seriously.

I'm not talking about anyone on the Bucks side of things. I like the posters from other boards that come in here trying to convince us on trades, as if we could actually pull the trigger on it (this case being Cyrone). It's entertaining.

Also, to be fair, 90% of the posters here probably are smarter than anyone the Bucks front office has employed the last 15 years.

ackypoo · Post #5573 » by **ackypoo** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:02 pm

Cyrone Torbin wrote:
Just trying to do y'all a service in being positive about Kanter, he is going to be on your team by 3pm Eastern time tomorrow.

HA!

i really dont think we trade for kanter. sounds like utah wants more than what is being offered.

i also, personally, do not want him. because it means we have to resign him.

JustinCredible · Post #5574 » by **JustinCredible** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:03 pm

Cyrone Torbin wrote:
JustinCredible wrote:There is no question that Kanter is a bad individual defender. The question is: Does our team defensive system help him? Does he have a skillset that works in our system?

Actually it's the complete opposite. I've actually seen him have spurts have above average individual defense often. His help defense is what he needs help with, pun intended.

Cool. Your defensive system is nothing like ours. I've seen Drew Gooden have 'spurts' on the basketball court too. Feel free to provide some stats of Kanter's opponents while he is guarding them. Perhaps some stats of him defensively at Center vs him at PF.

tski1972 · Post #5575 » by **tski1972** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:05 pm

humanrefutation wrote:Is anyone here going to be disappointed if we stand pat at the deadline?

I won't. I think the summer is where this team either makes/breaks it.

Cyrone Torbin · Post #5576 » by **Cyrone Torbin** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:06 pm

ackypoo wrote:
Cyrone Torbin wrote:
Just trying to do y'all a service in being positive about Kanter, he is going to be on your team by 3pm Eastern time tomorrow.

HA!

i really dont think we trade for kanter. sounds like utah wants more than what is being offered.

i also, personally, do not want him. because it means we have to resign him.

I have a feeling Kanter may just take the QO (one big negative about Kanter is the his agent is his only client, so I get the feeling he really wants to strike a big contract and would be willing to wait a year for the cap to expand) and y'all would have him relatively cheap for another year. Not sure if that is a positive thing or not for y'all. I guess it would allow y'all to re-sign Knight and Middleton while evaluating Kanter for another year while the cap rises.

jakecronus8 · Post #5577 » by **jakecronus8** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:07 pm

I will be pretty bummed if we trade a ton of assets to end up re-signing both Knight and Kanter for over 10+ mil a year. On the bright side, I still think we'll keep Mids for a decent bargain.

Knight
Middleton
Parker
Giannis
Kanter

Would be our go for it team for the next 5 years or so. Giannis and Parker would have to hit their absolute highest ceilings for that team to be a true contender.

JustinCredible · Post #5578 » by **JustinCredible** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:07 pm

A starting frontcourt of Giannis, Jabari, and Kanter would be beastly on the offensive end. It would be completely dreadful on the defensive end. Jabari and Kanter are constantly lost defensively and have zero rim protection ability. It would be a layup line for teams against us.

emunney · Post #5579 » by **emunney** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:07 pm

Cyrone Torbin wrote:
JustinCredible wrote:There is no question that Kanter is a bad individual defender. The question is: Does our team defensive system help him? Does he have a skillset that works in our system?

Actually it's the complete opposite. I've actually seen him have spurts have above average individual defense often. His help defense is what he needs help with, pun intended.

I just want to point out that you've said more than once that you hate Kanter. Exactly how seriously do you think we're going to take your defense of him.

IMO either Middleton or Knight would be great for you guys. Wouldn't be at all surprised if you offered one of them in July.

M-C-G · Post #5580 » by **M-C-G** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:09 pm

DanoMac wrote:
Also, to be fair, 90% of the posters here probably are smarter than anyone the Bucks front office has employed the last 15 years.

I really can't argue with that, like at all.