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Nemanja Bjelica

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Re: Re: Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#341 » by Merc_Porto » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:03 am

Devilzsidewalk wrote:
mercgold3 wrote:
Feilong wrote:It's like a Math equation.

Mirotic was an absolute star in Europe.
Bjelica is 2 levels worse than Mirotic
Mirotic is mediocre in NBA, just a rotation guy.
Bjelica will be in NBA what (?)


WTH ? Really ?
Mirotic is mediocre in NBA ? Just a rotation guy ?

Ok.


I've only seen him in maybe 2 or 3 games, but by the #s it seems more than fair assessment to me. He's a jump shooting big man shooting .395.


Yeah, is so fair that Bulls fans prefer to trade Gasol / Gibson before Mirotic.

They are crazy.
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Re: Re: Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#342 » by Devilzsidewalk » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:43 am

mercgold3 wrote:
Devilzsidewalk wrote:
mercgold3 wrote:
WTH ? Really ?
Mirotic is mediocre in NBA ? Just a rotation guy ?

Ok.


I've only seen him in maybe 2 or 3 games, but by the #s it seems more than fair assessment to me. He's a jump shooting big man shooting .395.


Yeah, is so fair that Bulls fans prefer to trade Gasol / Gibson before Mirotic.

They are crazy.


Thats based on the future - nobody said he can't get better in the future, but right now, I don't know what adjective would be more accurate than mediocre. Over half his shots are threes and he makes a third of them. He's still a smart player, but his performance is mediocre.
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#343 » by Merc_Porto » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:51 am

^
Understand, but...
Mediocre is a strong adjective for a player like Mirotic.

A future star in this league imo. I wouln't mind to give a top-5 pick for this guy. But that is just me.
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#344 » by VUK1 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:42 am

This is where D. Kahn deserves even more criticism.
The fact that the Wolves at certain stages had the rights to players like Mirotic & Donatas (Houston), plus others im forgetting atm and basically gave them away for cash or as throw-ins really burns me
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#345 » by Klomp » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:39 am

packforfreedom wrote:I'm not really convinced, that a 27 year old euro guy will be our PF of the future either. From what I saw of him, I'm not exatcly overwhelmed by his skill-set.

Who said anything about him being the PF of the future?
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#346 » by Feilong » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:45 am

LesGrossman wrote:And europeans are slower, is that so. Genetically? Or do you refer to WHITE europeans? Quite the racist statement, really. Giannis is european too, btw. Just as much as LeBron is american and Wiggins is Canadian. Tony Parker is european, Ricky is european. Dennis Schröder is european. All slow?Or maybe its because the european leagues actually enforce their drug policy, while the NBA players are even amnestied at the world cup and olympics.


Yes 99% of EU are slower and less athletic. GENETICALLY. Where EU i mean EU DNA.
It isn't racism, it's the truth.
Women are better at multitasking than men, it's not racism, it's biology.
Women have higher threshold for pain than men, it's not racism, it's biology.
White guys are less athletic than black guys, it's not racism, it's biology.

There is a reason you don't see white guys running 100 meters
There is a reason Afrikaans win the marathon.

Giannis was raised in Greece but is Nigerian descent (Nigeria is in Africa). Both his parents are Nigerian.
Parker's father is also from Africa.
Ricky is great but he can't dunk. EU blood ;)
Schröder mother is Gambian (Gambia is in Africa)

Should i continue? If you don't believe me on the biology part just do your research.
I like that you got 2 AND1. Ignorance is (NOT) bliss.
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#347 » by Merc_Porto » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:54 am

^
What is that have to do with basketball bro ?

Stopt it.
Unbelievable.
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#348 » by packforfreedom » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:54 am

Klomp wrote:
packforfreedom wrote:I'm not really convinced, that a 27 year old euro guy will be our PF of the future either. From what I saw of him, I'm not exatcly overwhelmed by his skill-set.

Who said anything about him being the PF of the future?


pretty sure I saw depth charts on this board with him as our starting PF.
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#349 » by packforfreedom » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:04 am

Feilong wrote:
LesGrossman wrote:And europeans are slower, is that so. Genetically? Or do you refer to WHITE europeans? Quite the racist statement, really. Giannis is european too, btw. Just as much as LeBron is american and Wiggins is Canadian. Tony Parker is european, Ricky is european. Dennis Schröder is european. All slow?Or maybe its because the european leagues actually enforce their drug policy, while the NBA players are even amnestied at the world cup and olympics.


Yes 99% of EU are slower and less athletic. GENETICALLY. Where EU i mean EU DNA.
It isn't racism, it's the truth.
Women are better at multitasking than men, it's not racism, it's biology.
Women have higher threshold for pain than men, it's not racism, it's biology.
White guys are less athletic than black guys, it's not racism, it's biology.

There is a reason you don't see white guys running 100 meters
There is a reason Afrikaans win the marathon.

Giannis was raised in Greece but is Nigerian descent (Nigeria is in Africa). Both his parents are Nigerian.
Parker's father is also from Africa.
Ricky is great but he can't dunk. EU blood ;)
Schröder mother is Gambian (Gambia is in Africa)

Should i continue? If you don't believe me on the biology part just do your research.
I like that you got 2 AND1. Ignorance is (NOT) bliss.


I'm with you on most of your postings, but this is just bad.
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#350 » by Feilong » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:44 am

packforfreedom wrote:I'm with you on most of your postings, but this is just bad.


" While everyone readily accepts that evolution has turned out blacks with a genetic proclivity to contract sickle cell and Jews of European heritage who are 100 times more likely than other populations to be afflicted with the degenerative mental disease Tay-Sachs, it is widely perceived as racist to suggest that blacks of West African ancestry have evolved into the world's best sprinters, Asians among the best divers, East Africans the premier distance runners, and whites the top weightlifters.

Yet the science is quite clear and the empirical evidence consistent and overwhelming. A look at the ancestry (or home country) of runners holding the top 100 times in eight distances, from the 100 meters to the marathon, makes it clear that African domination is deep as well as broad:

Blacks who trace their ancestry to West Africa, including African Americans, hold more than 95 percent of the top times in sprinting;
Whites are virtually absent from the top ranks of sprinting; though whites have traditionally done well in the longer endurance races, particularly the marathon, their ranks have thinned in recent years;
Athletes from one country, Kenya, make up more than one-third of top times in middle and long distance races; including top performances by other East Africans (most from Ethiopia), that domination swells to almost 50 percent.
North Africans do well at middle distances;
Mexicans (Native Americans), are strongest at the longest races, 10,000 meters and the marathon;
East Asians are competitive only at the event requiring the most endurance, the marathon, and at ultra-marathons."

If you want to know why this is true. You can read the part "about how muscles work". This is a simple text and easy to understand.
http://run-down.com/guests/je_black_athletes_p2.php
If you want more detailed explanation you can easily find it.

Americans have a problem to understand that YES, white and black people have equal rights but their biology is not 100% the same.
I believe they don't learn this kind of things at school, the same way they don't learn about evolution, that all religions are fairy tails etc

I am sorry if this upsets people but facts are above feelings.

p.s. I know i am off the topic but my point was Bjelica isn't special, he is not that good and we should focus our attention to better players. When i said the obvious that white players are less athletic than black i was provoked and i had to answer.
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#351 » by packforfreedom » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:22 pm

genetic variation is bigger between ethnic groups than within. you connect physical abilities to some 'race' contruct, which is pretty much the essence of racism even if you choose positive abilities in your examples. You're completey igonoring cultural and societial influences in terms of what people do, how they are able to develop their talents and skills and how this is this seen and acknowledged.
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#352 » by Feilong » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:48 pm

packforfreedom wrote:genetic variation is bigger between ethnic groups than within. you connect physical abilities to some 'race' contruct, which is pretty much the essence of racism even if you choose positive abilities in your examples. You completey igonore culture and society in terms of what people do, how they are able to develop their talents and skills and how is this seen by society.


For me (maybe i am wrong) racism is saying that because 2 people are different they don't have equal rights or obligations, the don't have the same opportunities, they are not payed equally for the same job etc.
Racism has nothing to do with how healthy cells, muscles, tissues work. This is entirely chemistry/biology.

I agree that culture and society help develop your talents and skills, i am not ignoring these parameters at all. All i am saying is that they are not the only ones, maybe even they are not the dominant ones.
Although physical activity can improve fitness, it generally cannot alter a person's biological endowment by converting fast-twitch fibers to slow-twitch ones, or vice versa (although people do gradually and permanently lose fast-twitch muscles as a result of aging). It's estimated that 40 percent is due to environmental influences such as exercise, whereas 45 percent is associated with genetic factors (the remaining 15 percent is due to sampling error). At the far end of the performance bell curve in sprinting, where small differences can be crucial, genetics clearly circumscribes possibility.


I would be happy to continue our talk, although i don't know if this is the right place. I think i made my point, some will agree with what Biology teaches us some will ignore it. I stop here on this subject unless someone has a question.
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#353 » by slinky » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:07 pm

packforfreedom wrote:
Klomp wrote:
packforfreedom wrote:I'm not really convinced, that a 27 year old euro guy will be our PF of the future either. From what I saw of him, I'm not exatcly overwhelmed by his skill-set.

Who said anything about him being the PF of the future?


pretty sure I saw depth charts on this board with him as our starting PF.


It likely depends on how literal you want to be with 'PF of the future'...without a huge upgrade in the offseason, Bjelica could very well be the starting PF(Payne is an unknown, Bennett is inconsistent, KG is...old). But that doesn't mean Bjelica is someone you pencil in as PF for the next 10 years(future).

As of right now and likely into next year, PF position you would continue to try and improve at(unlike PG or SG/SF, where you aren't actively trying to replace Rubio or Wiggins.)
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#354 » by slinky » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:11 pm

For those of us, who haven't seen him play outside of highlight clips...whats a current or historical comparison for Bjelica? Reading reports on him sounds like some sort of Lamar Odom, Hedo Turkoglu, Toni Kukoc combination...and I don't mean floor/ceiling comparison...just curious from a skill set perspective...
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#355 » by LesGrossman » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:34 pm

What i found most irritating is that on one side you call athletes with clear "african american descent" americans, while those europeans who have african heritage apparently arent valid europeans for you. No, Giannis or Sofo are not more african than LeBron or Lavine. No, Dennis is not african. Oh and by the way, Ricky can dunk with ease even after the injuries, and Rudy Fernandez has participated in the dunk contest and held his own.

As i noted before i am coaching several youth teams in europe. I have black and asian and white and arab and indian kids and the variation in their athletic abilities is amazing but its far from being as simple as you believe. Most black kids i saw are not athletic at all, while my highest leaper is korean. Generalization is the beginning of racism here.
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Re: Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#356 » by minimus » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:46 pm

slinky wrote:For those of us, who haven't seen him play outside of highlight clips...whats a current or historical comparison for Bjelica? Reading reports on him sounds like some sort of Lamar Odom, Hedo Turkoglu, Toni Kukoc combination...and I don't mean floor/ceiling comparison...just curious from a skill set perspective...

I would say that he is more Turkoglu, but Nemanya is warrior.
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#357 » by shangrila » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:31 am

C.lupus wrote:I like Payne but he's a project at this point and Garnett will probably only play 15 mpg. There should be plenty of minutes at the 3 and 4 for Bjelica if Bennett is moved. Garnett and Payne can both get minutes at 5 also (we know Pek will miss some time).

Pek misses about a quarter of the season every year. That will create some extra minutes and let you slide someone like KG to the 5, but what about the other 60 odd games? And what if, by some miracle, Pek stays healthy and there's no extra minutes at C?
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Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#358 » by MinneOOPalis » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:37 am

LesGrossman wrote:What i found most irritating is that on one side you call athletes with clear "african american descent" americans, while those europeans who have african heritage apparently arent valid europeans for you. No, Giannis or Sofo are not more african than LeBron or Lavine. No, Dennis is not african. Oh and by the way, Ricky can dunk with ease even after the injuries, and Rudy Fernandez has participated in the dunk contest and held his own.

As i noted before i am coaching several youth teams in europe. I have black and asian and white and arab and indian kids and the variation in their athletic abilities is amazing but its far from being as simple as you believe. Most black kids i saw are not athletic at all, while my highest leaper is korean. Generalization is the beginning of racism here.



Schroeder Isn't African?? Just because he wasn't born there doesn't mean he isn't.


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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#359 » by UcanUwill » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:10 am

Feilong wrote:
mercgold3 wrote:^
So unfair.
But why Bjelica is also a bad player ?

It's like a Math equation.

Mirotic was an absolute star in Europe.
Bjelica is 2 levels worse than Mirotic
Mirotic is mediocre in NBA, just a rotation guy.
Bjelica will be in NBA what (?)


I wouldn't say Mirotic was an absolute star in Europe. He was a key player on the best Euroleague team on paper, but an absolute star, not really. But to be fair, European basketball doesn't really have absolute stars. Spanoulis, maybe Teodosic, thats about it in my opinion.

Anyway, basketball doesn't work like a math equation. Talent does not translate lineary, you have to judge every player on it's own. Player A can be better than player B in Europe, but very same player A might be worse that very same player B in the NBA. We had plenty of somewhat mediocre Euro players who panned out in the NBA, while at the same time having European stars who did not.

I am not really that high on Bjelica, and I am not claiming he will be good in the NBA, just wanted to point out a few things.

European basketball is in fact slower and less athletic, but the main reason why, is that NBA select and collect the best players in the world, and many of them are athletic freaks. European basketball can't be as tough and critical at collecting their talent, they just get NBA leftovers.
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Re: Nemanja Bjelica 

Post#360 » by UcanUwill » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:18 am

slinky wrote:For those of us, who haven't seen him play outside of highlight clips...whats a current or historical comparison for Bjelica? Reading reports on him sounds like some sort of Lamar Odom, Hedo Turkoglu, Toni Kukoc combination...and I don't mean floor/ceiling comparison...just curious from a skill set perspective...


I think his teammate Emir Preldzic is more like Turkoglu to be honest. Bjelica is a mix of Kostas Papanikolaou and Draymond Green IMO.

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