Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2)

closg00 · Post #1401 » by **closg00** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 3:11 pm

From observing the organizations pre and post-trade moves, they are aware that they need an infusion of talent, but any moves they make will be done so on the cheap, and short-term.

*That minor move to swap Miller for Sessions is a lateral move that saves Ted some $$.
*Webster is Ernie's problem, he'd rather hide him rather than admit he screwed-up again
* Ernie is looking for a bargain player for that 15th spot, that's what Ernie likes to do. He will fill a team need with an out-of work vet rather than look for talent that is on the rise (see Memphis's recent 3-year signing of JaMychal Green)

Ted/EG would rather limp into the playoffs w/o opening the wallet. After we are eliminated in the playoffs, Ted & EG will have some canned speeches ready about how disappointed they were (possible Randy firing),and that they are looking forward to the off-season.

Post #1402 » by **miller31time** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 3:42 pm

The sad thing is that he's not even on the hot seat. How crazy is that?

To put on my tin-foil hat for a moment, maybe he signed Witt to an extension knowing full-well what would happen and understanding that Wittman's inevitable implosion would give him (EG) that much needed excuse that keeps his job alive for a few more years.

The dude knows self-preservation.

Post #1403 » by **nate33** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 3:56 pm

miller31time wrote:The sad thing is that he's not even on the hot seat. How crazy is that?

To put on my tin-foil hat for a moment, maybe he signed Witt to an extension knowing full-well what would happen and understanding that Wittman's inevitable implosion would give him (EG) that much needed excuse that keeps his job alive for a few more years.

The dude knows self-preservation.

Ted is loyal and unwilling to admit when he is wrong, but even he has to acknowledge that Wittman is Ernie's guy and they are joined at the hip. I really don't think Ernie will survive another coaching change. My guess is that Wittman will be given a lot of leeway before being let go, but if he absolutely has to go, Ernie goes with him.

It's going to take a player mutiny. Wall and Gortat need to quietly go to Ted and tell him it's time for Wittman to go. I don't think we're there yet, but if we keep losing 3 out of every 4 games, we're going to get there.

Post #1404 » by **miller31time** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 4:27 pm

nate33 wrote:Ted is loyal and unwilling to admit when he is wrong, but even he has to acknowledge that Wittman is Ernie's guy and they are joined at the hip. I really don't think Ernie will survive another coaching change. My guess is that Wittman will be given a lot of leeway before being let go, but if he absolutely has to go, Ernie goes with him.

It's going to take a player mutiny. Wall and Gortat need to quietly go to Ted and tell him it's time for Wittman to go. I don't think we're there yet, but if we keep losing 3 out of every 4 games, we're going to get there.

I'm not sure I buy that, though. If I'm Ernie, I tell Ted that I rightfully fired Flip Saunders and was going to make a coaching change in the off-season. Randy was promoted to interim coach and did an excellent job not only with establishing a culture of defense but more importantly a culture of professionalism. The playoff run last season earned him a new contract and it would be morally wrong to fire someone the offseason after they led you to the playoffs. I (Ernie) knew that it was possible Randy had taken the team as far as he could which is why we have the option of looking for a new head coach after his 1st season under the new contract.

You see, it's Ernie who's hands are tied because of the unexpected success of Wittman in 13-14. (Sarcasm)

Dat2U · Post #1405 » by **Dat2U** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 4:31 pm

Also gotta realize we JUST gave Wittman a $9 million extension just last offseason. Now only the 2nd year is guaranteed but is Teddy willing to eat crow AND another $3 million on Witt's deal? That just goes against Ted's MO.

More than likely... unless it's a really bad flame out (like I mentioned and Nate33 as well ...basically a team mutiny) I believe both Ernie & Witt will survive the offseason and enter 2015-16 on notice much like the 13-14 season was a "make the playoffs or else".

I also think Ted gives Ernie/Witt a chance to catch up with the rest of the league and we'll see Ernie tasked with adding shooters and floor spacers this summer while Witt will be asked to modernize his rotations/offense to fit those new acquistions. That's just seems more like Ted's preferred direction. Instead of firing, give them the direction to follow because for Ted... it's always more about the process/method than the actual people executing it.

hands11 · Post #1406 » by **hands11** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 4:39 pm

nate33 wrote:
miller31time wrote:The sad thing is that he's not even on the hot seat. How crazy is that?

To put on my tin-foil hat for a moment, maybe he signed Witt to an extension knowing full-well what would happen and understanding that Wittman's inevitable implosion would give him (EG) that much needed excuse that keeps his job alive for a few more years.

The dude knows self-preservation.

Ted is loyal and unwilling to admit when he is wrong, but even he has to acknowledge that Wittman is Ernie's guy and they are joined at the hip. I really don't think Ernie will survive another coaching change. My guess is that Wittman will be given a lot of leeway before being let go, but if he absolutely has to go, Ernie goes with him.

It's going to take a player mutiny. Wall and Gortat need to quietly go to Ted and tell him it's time for Wittman to go. I don't think we're there yet, but if we keep losing 3 out of every 4 games, we're going to get there.

I would say Flip was Ernie's guy and he was hired to coach a vet team with Gil, CB and AJ. Then Gil happened. Flip stuck around a year and then Flip was fired. Randy was the asst and stepped in. His voice worked well for the team where they were. He focused on D which was good and they helped the team and helped Wall learn the importance of defense. Then will Wall and others supporting him and the team in transition, keeping Randy that year made sense. Then they made it to the 2nd round last year and Randy was pretty much assured of getting a short extension to see if he could evolve as a coach and take them to the next level. And they did that with a contract that allowed them an out in 2016. And at only 3M a year if they needed to axe him sooner.

Now they could have gone all big balls and just transitioned into a new coach this year. But its understandable that they didn't as well.

From the first press conference with Randy and EG, I never really got a sense they were two pea in a pod. There even seemed to be a sense of conflict between the two. Randy would do what Randy does which is interrupt people mid sentence and he even did that to EG. It almost liked like Randy was dissing EG and treating him like a punch. Randy also had this attitude and communicated it.. hey.. I told them.. this is what we are going to do. If you don't want that, you don't want me. He has also communicated since then he isn't concerned with losing the Wizards gig. He will early get another job as an assistant. He has been around a long time and he is confident he will stay around.

So I get no sense that Randy is EGs "guy". I think they have been kind of brackish in regards to him and rewarding him for helping the team along and making progress.

Now given what we are seeing, its much more clear he isn't getting the most out of them. I think they would have NO issue going after an elite coach next. Or even finding their Brad Stevens.

hands11 · Post #1407 » by **hands11** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 4:44 pm

Dat2U wrote:Also gotta realize we JUST gave Wittman a $9 million extension just last offseason. Now only the 2nd year is guaranteed but is Teddy willing to eat crow AND another $3 million on Witt's deal? That just goes against Ted's MO.

More than likely... unless it's a really bad flame out (like I mentioned and Nate33 as well ...basically a team mutiny) I believe both Ernie & Witt will survive the offseason and enter 2015-16 on notice much like the 13-14 season was a "make the playoffs or else".

I also think Ted gives Ernie/Witt a chance to catch up with the rest of the league and we'll see Ernie tasked with adding shooters and floor spacers this summer while Witt will be asked to modernize his rotations/offense to fit those new acquisitions. That's just seems more like Ted's preferred direction. Instead of firing, give them the direction to follow because for Ted... it's always more about the process/method than the actual people executing it.

They paid Dray way more to leave and open that spot on the roster. And they did fire Flip and still owed him.
3M would be a drop in the bucked compared to what they paid Dray. And, this next year is the first year they aren't paying Dray anymore. So while not ideal, its a move they can make. If the opportunity cost of getting an elite coach is only 3M for one year, Ted would eat that.

So while I can see them evaluating keeping him, I could easily see them moving on. This is just painful what we are now watching.

BigA · Post #1408 » by **BigA** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 7:33 pm

Dat2U wrote:Also gotta realize we JUST gave Wittman a $9 million extension just last offseason. Now only the 2nd year is guaranteed but is Teddy willing to eat crow AND another $3 million on Witt's deal? That just goes against Ted's MO.

More than likely... unless it's a really bad flame out (like I mentioned and Nate33 as well ...basically a team mutiny) I believe both Ernie & Witt will survive the offseason and enter 2015-16 on notice much like the 13-14 season was a "make the playoffs or else".

I also think Ted gives Ernie/Witt a chance to catch up with the rest of the league and we'll see Ernie tasked with adding shooters and floor spacers this summer while Witt will be asked to modernize his rotations/offense to fit those new acquistions. That's just seems more like Ted's preferred direction. Instead of firing, give them the direction to follow because for Ted... it's always more about the process/method than the actual people executing it.

Perhaps. Ted may be "loyal and unwilling to admit when he's wrong," in Nate's formulation, but he's not stupid either. And he likes money.

KD2DC would be the ultimate meal ticket for this franchise, giving Ted the ability to sustain and further increase ticket prices while maximizing numerous other income streams. Ted has to see that the possibility of KD2DC happening (if it even is possible) is slipping away. Ernie's not the one who can turn that around. And if KD2DC doesn't happen (which is likely even in the best circumstances), Ernie is not the guy to come up with the plan to best utilize the cap space and remaining assets.

So I'd be really surprised if Ernie and Randy aren't both gone two days after the Wizards' first round playoff exit. To me, Randy surviving the season is almost a sign that Ernie is going as well.

Post #1409 » by **nate33** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 7:38 pm

BigA wrote:So I'd be really surprised if Ernie and Randy aren't both gone two days after the Wizards' first round playoff exit. To me, Randy surviving the season is almost a sign that Ernie is going as well.

Yeah, that's my thinking too. I really don't think Ted will fire Randy and keep EG. If that was his mindset, Wittman would probably be gone already. The fact that Wittman is still around suggests that he considers the two a packaged deal and he's not quite ready to can EG yet.

TGW · Post #1410 » by **TGW** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 8:00 pm

nate33 wrote:
BigA wrote:So I'd be really surprised if Ernie and Randy aren't both gone two days after the Wizards' first round playoff exit. To me, Randy surviving the season is almost a sign that Ernie is going as well.

Yeah, that's my thinking too. I really don't think Ted will fire Randy and keep EG. If that was his mindset, Wittman would probably be gone already. The fact that Wittman is still around suggests that he considers the two a packaged deal and he's not quite ready to can EG yet.

Yup...one won't be fired without the other.

Post #1411 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 8:07 pm

Ted did fire both the GM and coach of the Caps last year - and the Caps have improved this year. I think that's an indication that Ted may be willing to make a similar move with the Wiz this coming offseason - if for no other reason than to point out to everyone he was successful doing this with his hawkey team.

tontoz · Post #1412 » by **tontoz** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 8:12 pm

TGW wrote:
nate33 wrote:
BigA wrote:So I'd be really surprised if Ernie and Randy aren't both gone two days after the Wizards' first round playoff exit. To me, Randy surviving the season is almost a sign that Ernie is going as well.

Yeah, that's my thinking too. I really don't think Ted will fire Randy and keep EG. If that was his mindset, Wittman would probably be gone already. The fact that Wittman is still around suggests that he considers the two a packaged deal and he's not quite ready to can EG yet.

Yup...one won't be fired without the other.

Which makes me believe neither will be fired. I won't believe that Ted is capable of admitting he screwed up until i actually see it.

closg00 · Post #1413 » by **closg00** » Fri Mar 6, 2015 9:18 pm

Neither will be fired, just lots of spin and PR after the playoffs, they certainly won't fire Randy at this point in the season.

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dckingsfan · Post #1414 » by **dckingsfan** » Sat Mar 7, 2015 2:38 am

Ruzious wrote:Ted did fire both the GM and coach of the Caps last year - and the Caps have improved this year. I think that's an indication that Ted may be willing to make a similar move with the Wiz this coming offseason - if for no other reason than to point out to everyone he was successful doing this with his hawkey team.

PleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePleasePlease

Post #1415 » by **nate33** » Sat Mar 7, 2015 2:45 am

Man, if Henry Walker had made that corner 3 with 5 seconds to go, we might have a new GM and coach right now.

closg00 · Post #1416 » by **closg00** » Sat Mar 7, 2015 3:17 am

In other news Jordan Clarkson is a keeper and Ramon Sessions is indeed Maynor 2.0
http://www.nba.com/games/20150306/LALMEM/gameinfo.html

lastemp3ror · Post #1417 » by **lastemp3ror** » Sat Mar 7, 2015 3:57 pm

I am not sure which scenario will happen this off-season, however I am sure there is one scenario that won't happen. That being, Ernie being fired and Witt staying. That is the only thing I know for sure. Everything else is in play.

TGW · Post #1418 » by **TGW** » Sat Mar 7, 2015 4:31 pm

closg00 wrote:In other news Jordan Clarkson is a keeper and Ramon Sessions is indeed Maynor 2.0
http://www.nba.com/games/20150306/LALMEM/gameinfo.html

He's literally the only player the Lakers fan like on the team.

dckingsfan · Post #1419 » by **dckingsfan** » Sun Mar 8, 2015 3:42 pm

At this point, I can't see anyone loving EG... my guess is that the percentage that want him gone now is even higher.

We need a new GM to put this house in order.

Post #1420 » by **paulpressey25** » Sun Mar 8, 2015 3:59 pm

Suggestion for you guys. Has anyone documented just how bad Ernie has been over his last 20-years as an NBA GM?

I had to do this 18-months ago here to get people in Milwaukee at least talking about things.

http://saveourbucks.com/how-bad-have-th ... -recently/

Obviously our situation was more dire because we faced relocation. But I really think if you delved into Ernie's career and did a thoughtful (not bomb throwing) website pointing out his year by year records and compared it to other GM's you'd be amazed how powerful it is. And compare his W-L record (regular season and playoffs) versus other GM's who have held that title in the NBA for 15-years or more.

Then have a page where you highlight the 20-years of trades he's made. I guarantee there will be a list of stinkers in there.

I realize you guys all know anecdotally what the story is. But sometimes you need to lead the media to the water first. Then they will take a drink.

IS IT TIME TO FIRE ERNIE GRUNFELD?